Flipping the bird or fighting?

[hillbilly]

Bear with me as I am a little confused and American pissed. Initially, my thoughts were going to be in the Teaching section, then no maybe the Issues area. I then thought about Members, but decided no because I wanted this discussion in the Lounge where perhaps it affects us all to a certain degree regardless of our native country.

It all started with a teenager flipping me the bird after school while I was on bus duty.

Here is the background. All teachers have a duty of some sort, whether it is lunch, recess or bus duty. The other day was my turn at bus duty with the Art teacher who has been at the school for the past 19 years.

There we were after school enjoying the Colorado spring waiting for the yellow buses to pick up the students. An 8th grader came running to catch his bus and in the process ran by us teachers and flipped the bird. I immediately followed him onto the bus and gave him the riot act.

Today before school started his parents barged into my classroom. The father is probably in his late 50’s, was dressed in a leather jacket, sunglasses, wore a ponytail and reeked of booze (much like me on the weekends ). A typical blue collar miner from this area. Mom was just a typical fat mom.

What was their complaint? I had scolded their son for flipping me off. The father’s reasoning was that it was better for his son to give the finger instead of fighting. WTF? In all fairness, the boy is a fighter and has been suspended several times.

Now the snowball begins to build and eventually the principal, counselor, school psychologist and the head of the school district and the teacher’s union rep were involved in this young man’s future.

And what was the outcome? Maybe it is better for a student to flip the bird instead of fighting.

My opinion on this issue? A top notch international school in Thailand will beat almost any American school hands down. Hence, my move back to Thailand in order to teach and raise my daughter.

[Jet Gorgon]

^ Whaddya expect, HB, you be in libbie county.

[kingwilly]

A top notch international school in Thailand will beat almost any American school hands down. Hence, my move back to Thailand in order to teach and raise my daughter.

I hate to say I told you so.

[Marmite the Dog]

Hence, my move back to Thailand in order to teach and raise my daughter.

So you're coming back to us?

[mobs00]

When I was in school in the states, only about 10 years ago, If you flipped off a teacher you'd be expelled for sure.

I just can't wait to see how this generation turns out.

[Bugs]

Sad to say, but teachers in the US have to walk a fine line now days in regard to how they confront students in regard to how the students conduct themselves. In this case the powers that be seem to have missed the fact that while it might have been worse for the kid to get into a fight, flipping the bird is still unacceptable behavior.

In this particular case you made things difficult for yourself by scolding the student (no I don't think you were out of line, but I don't run your school). But things really do get fuzzy now days whenever there is any kind of direct confrontation between students and teachers - even if the confrontation is completely verbal.

I don't know what options are available to you, and what on-the-spot authority you might have. But it seems that detention(s) or Saturday school would be the best option, leaving any verbal scolding to the parents of the kid (should they choose to do so).

IMHO the biggest thing that has affected the US school system is bad parenting, and an apathy on the part of the parents when if comes not only to their child’s education, but raising their children in general.

[blackgang]

A top notch international school in Thailand will beat almost any American school hands down. Hence, my move back to Thailand in order to teach and raise my daughter.

If that was when I went to school, I would not have did that anyway because I was taught better, plus if I did it tho, the teacher, usually a woman would have had me by the arm and would have beat the dust out of the seat of my pants with a big leather strap, and then I would have been afraid to go home as my dad pobly would have heard about it and I would have got a right hiding from him, altho he only spanked me 2 times in my life, he could set down at the table and strip you naked in very few seconds and make you hurt all over with just his eyes, before he even opened his mouth.

IMHO the biggest thing that has affected the US school system is bad parenting, and an apathy on the part of the parents when if comes not only to their child’s education, but raising their children in general.

Righto Bugs, parents ain't got no time to invest in a marriage or into parenting, not just here or the US but in this whole fucking world and it is a shame too.
But it shows in the changed attitude of the people, the crime and the I don't give a fuck attitude of all the younger generation./
To much govt intervention in all phases of life, from having a kid to raising it in accordance to govt regs and not by what you should think is the right thing to do.

[mediamanbkk]

Odds on the kid will be in prison by the time he's 21

[November Rain]

Flipping the bird is better than fighting? OK, I can sort of go along with that logic. Where I fall down though is, following that logic (either/or scenario) the alternative to the child (8th grade is what? 14?) making obscene gestures to a teacher would be attacking him physically? I'm sorry, that is so scary. For parents and the school to justify his actions in any way, just makes me wonder how far down the wrong path the West is going.

When I was his age (25 years ago), I'd have been severely disciplined by the school for doing something like that. Then I'd have gone home & my parents would have disciplined me again. Even today, if my son disrespected his teachers like that, I'd be down to the school like a flash - to make him apologise and to assure the teachers that he would not get away with it. What is wrong with parents, today? Isn't it our job to teach our kids how to behave?

Yep, haste ye back to Thailand, HB.

[watterinja]

In South Africa (of yesteryear), the student would have been expelled, or severely disciplined & made to apologise publicly to the teacher.

[kingwilly]

Today before school started his parents barged into my classroom.

And this is totally wrong also...

[barbaro]

An 8th grader came running to catch his bus and in the process ran by us teachers and flipped the bird. I immediately followed him onto the bus and gave him the riot act.

This is why the US has lost it:

Today before school started his parents barged into my classroom.

What was their complaint? I had scolded their son for flipping me off. The father’s reasoning was that it was better for his son to give the finger instead of fighting. WTF? In all fairness, the boy is a fighter and has been suspended several times.

So, instead of fighting you and the other teachers, and instead of physically assaulting you, it was better to give the bird?

Not logical thinking on this 'parents' part.

Now the snowball begins to build and eventually the principal, counselor, school psychologist and the head of the school district and the teacher’s union rep were involved in this young man’s future.

Another crisis. Telling him to not be rude and be polite is a crisis.

And what was the outcome? Maybe it is better for a student to flip the bird instead of fighting.

This is what all of these people - professionals? - came up with? How long did that take?

A top notch international school in Thailand will beat almost any American school hands down. Hence, my move back to Thailand in order to teach and raise my daughter.

I believe it. American public schools are a train crash in many ways. Culture, and parents, is one of the reasons.

Best of luck, and keep us posted, HB.

[terry57]

When I was in school in the states, only about 10 years ago, If you flipped off a teacher you'd be expelled for sure.

I just can't wait to see how this generation turns out.

Dito for Australia, the system is absolutely foked because of the governments piss poor attitude to discipling children in this politically correct environment.

The teacher has absolutely fok all power, the kids know it and play on it.

Foking whole school system has gone to shit whilst the kids run amok.

[blackgang]

this politically correct environment.

You have got it I see terry.

[Cujo]

We wouldn't dare disrespect a teacher like that for fear of a belting from the teacher. The parents would never know.
Semms like this kid went crying to mummy and daddy after getting no more than a bollocking from the teacher.
The parents should've sided with the hillbilly and given the little shit a bollocking as well.
Hey hillbilly, you going to give us the principles email addy?

[phuketbound]

And what was the outcome? Maybe it is better for a student to flip the bird instead of fighting.

My opinion on this issue? A top notch international school in Thailand will beat almost any American school hands down. Hence, my move back to Thailand in order to teach and raise my daughter.

I think it is better if he flipped the bird, rather than fight. Although, it shouldn't be an either or question. Both are disrespectful and should be dealt with (as you did). Parents have so much control these days, over what the teacher should and should not do. I think it is ridiculous. I see it here in Korea too. The parents are a big part of the school, and if their little baby comes home and says anything, then they can say something to the management of the school. It is always their word over the teachers.

Parents should worry about managing their children at home, and bringing them up with manners and respect. If that was the case, then there would be a lot less misbehavior at school. Will it be any better at the International school in Thailand? Every school is different, so hopefully things work out for you. Good Luck!

[reinvented]

of course its better
but its still fucking unnaceptable
at my school the teacher would have taken you to his office for a chat
where you would have bounced off the walls a few times

better than being buggered by priests

[friscofrankie]

lessee, a 13 year old kid flipped you off. And you felt you had to follow him onhte buss and "scold" him? Life in the states got you down does it? That the kid went home and told "daddy" I find weird. That daddy had to come in and confront you weirder.

This has the making of a great jerry Springer episode. Bring your own chair I hear Jerry's are break-aways.

[Jesus Jones]

There are no morals at home, so how the heck can a teacher install them in a student.

UK has already gone down the pan as for as respect for elders and their teachers are concerned. The worrying thing is it's getting worse.

My nieces have a terrible attitude towards their family an others. I've personally never let them get away with it if they have been disrespectful infront of me.

[kingwilly]

lessee, a 13 year old kid flipped you off. And you felt you had to follow him onhte buss and "scold" him?

I did think about that myself, having been there and done that, metaphorically speaking, a better way of handling that may have been to wait until the next day, find the student at lunch, or before school, etc. and politely talk to him, explain that you didnt like it, it was rude, etc etc.

However, I also know that in the heat of the moment, a long shitty day, the straw that breaks the camels back can be something as simple as flipping the bird.... often our job is made harder by the other teachers that simply allow students to do anything, sometimes you have to follow the smallest thing to enforce a point of manners or discipline.

I think it is better if he flipped the bird, rather than fight.

idiot

Although, it shouldn't be an either or question.

If it shouldn't be a question that why say it!?

Will it be any better at the International school in Thailand?

you, obviously have no idea of what an international school in thailand is like to even ask the question.

[NickA]

Well, HB, I might just outlast you, though I doubt by much.

I actually get on with the kids OK and most of them are really quite pleasant, which I was surprised about after reading all the shit in the tabloids. It's the attitude of other teachers that I find difficult to adjust to, but I thought it was just me after spending too much time in Thailand.

[barbaro]

Well, HB, I might just outlast you, though I doubt by much.

I actually get on with the kids OK and most of them are really quite pleasant, which I was surprised about after reading all the shit in the tabloids. It's the attitude of other teachers that I find difficult to adjust to, but I thought it was just me after spending too much time in Thailand.

Are they super-sensitive PCers, who follow a certain path?

Serious question.

[NickA]

^Basically (as a trainee) you have to watch every word you say and every sodding move you make. Also a lot of double standards - do as I say, not as I do. Some are ultra-PC others are not, but everyone has to tow the party line

[Muadib]

The PC, touchy-feely environment in the US has gotten out of hand... The simple fact that the powers that be decided it was better to flip off a teacher as apposed to getting into a fight speaks volumes... The fact that the parents backed-up their son speaks to the lack a discipline in the family also... This would be the sort of kid who wanders through the school shooting people at random, after which everyone will wonder why little Johnny did it...

All part of the reason why I, for one, am planning my exit strategy as quickly as possible...

[barbaro]

^Basically (as a trainee) you have to watch every word you say and every sodding move you make. Also a lot of double standards - do as I say, not as I do. Some are ultra-PC others are not, but everyone has to tow the party line

I understand. That's the way it is.

Do what you have to do. It doesn't matter to voice you're opinion anyway. It doesn't matter.

Once you get settled in, then you can be yourself.