Defrauded By Criminals In Thailand

**jamescollister** · 25-09-2015, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by DrB0b

there is a minimum amount of paid up capital involved,

What's the minimum paid out, can't find it, interested to know.

**jamescollister** · 26-09-2015, 10:52 AM

Had a google of your site bob, can't find this bit, but it must be there somewhere.

Setting Up A Business in Thailand - BOI : The Board of ...
? BOI : The Board of Investment of Thailand
All promoters must subscribe for shares, which must be paid up in an aggregate .... Although there are no minimum capital requirements, the amount of capital

The way it reads, paid up investments are just what is normal for any Thai company, if you qualify, you can be BOI registered.

Special promotions for software design, not a lot of capital needed, rented office and some computers.

Law firms quote about 30,000 Baht to submit an application, so millions of dollars are not needed.

There are other ways to be safe, my case an SME company, set up by the SME department in Ubon.

Motto, if you have to use dodgy lawyers, make less then legal companies, you leave your self open to being ripped off.

**forreachingme** · 27-09-2015, 04:47 AM

The Phuket property nightmare
By Jonathan Head
BBC News, Phuket
25 September 2015
From the section Magazine
Phuket, ThailandImage copyrightThinkstock
In today's Magazine

Original link with pics here : http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34346620

The sparkling seas and warm beaches of Phuket are a magnet for sun-seeking holiday-makers and, increasingly, for foreigners seeking a comfortable and cost-efficient retirement. More than 100,000 foreigners have settled on the island - though some now bitterly regret it.
British expat Ian Rance and Irishman Colin Vard are now living almost penniless with their children on the outskirts of Bangkok as they struggle against overwhelming odds to recover properties they bought on Phuket. Both men lost all their investments through frauds that neither of them imagined were possible.
"I'd made my money in England and had enough to retire I thought. I was looking for a place that was warm, a place that had some rule of law, where I could live in safety and peace," says Rance, a chartered surveyor and professional arbitrator from Hertfordshire, who arrived in Phuket in 2000.
"When I came to Thailand on a trip to Australia it sort of seemed to fit the bill."
In 2001 Rance met and married a Thai woman called Suda and went on to have three children with her. The prime minister at the time, Thaksin Shinawatra, had started a programme called "Thailand Elite", through which he hoped to attract wealthy foreigners to settle by allowing them to own small amounts of land, something not normally permitted under Thai law.

Ian Rance outside his former home in Phuket
Image caption

Ian Rance outside his former home in Phuket

Encouraged by this, Rance began investing in property, buying two houses, and eventually a restaurant and two pieces of land. But the Thailand Elite scheme never took off, so in the end he did what thousands of other foreigners did - he put the properties either in the name of the company he had already formed to run his consultancy business, or in the name of his wife.
The family home was in his wife's name, but leased to him on a 30-year lease. The company was nominally Thai-owned but Rance, as a director, had majority voting rights - nothing could happen to the company's assets without his approval. He was advised by local lawyers that this was legally quite safe.

But unbeknown to him, in July 2008 Suda began transferring the properties out of the company. In September she also removed Rance as a director. On paper none of this should have been possible. In practice, all she had to do was to forge her husband's signature. The Land Office in Phuket, where property transfers are formalised, was willing to accept a simple forged power of attorney from Rance to change ownership of properties worth hundreds of thousands of pounds, and to cancel his 30-year lease on their home.

To change the control of the company the forged signature had to be notarised by a lawyer - but that presented no problem. A local lawyer did this willingly, without Rance being present. When the BBC confronted the lawyer about this he admitted the signature was his, but claimed it was normal practice in Phuket. The Thai Lawyers Council has since told the BBC this is not true, that it is a serious violation of their code of conduct. But Rance's attempts to sue the lawyer have got nowhere.
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Media caption
Ian Rance says he had no idea what was going on
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Find out more

Watch Jonathan Head's full report, filmed for the Victoria Derbyshire programme
He only spotted the fraud in July 2010, when checking his company's tax status. He discovered that all five properties, worth well over £1m ($1.5m), had been stolen. What began then was, he says, a nightmare period for him. His wife ran away. Four men came into his house and threatened his life if he did not get out of Phuket. His wife phoned him and told him they would kidnap the children if he did not leave the house immediately. Gun crime and murder are not uncommon in Phuket, and Rance decided to flee to Bangkok with the three young boys.

"It was a terrible, terrible time. I really had no time, thinking I was going to be shot, or the kids would be kidnapped. My first thought was to protect the family, try and get some evidence, and get a lawyer on board as quickly as possible."

The evidence Rance has amassed is staggering. Document after document shows the same land agent and two moneylenders, transferring the properties back and forth to his ex-wife in a form of pawnbroking, where she was in effect borrowing at astronomical rates of interest, using the properties as collateral. Rance believes she was being pressurised by relatives to raise the cash. He believes she received only a fraction of the properties' value. She was arrested in 2010, and is now serving a four-year prison sentence.

The document with Ian Rance's forged signature
Image caption
The document with Ian Rance's forged signature

But nothing has happened to any of the other parties linked to the fraud. Rance has filed nine criminal and civil suits against them. He has had to travel to Phuket for every hearing, paying for himself, a lawyer, and a translator - hearings which are usually many months apart, and sometimes cancelled at the last minute. Worse, one of the moneylenders has filed a perjury case against Rance, claiming that he knew about the fraud all along. This has resulted in Rance's passport being confiscated, and he is now obliged to report to the police every month in Phuket.

Over five years Rance estimates he has spent the equivalent of £200,000 ($300,000) on legal fees and other costs relating to the legal battle. The only case he has won resulted in the imprisonment of his ex-wife and the restoration of his company directorship. Yet the same judge ruled that he had no right to sue the moneylenders for the stolen properties, because he had not been a director of the company at the time.

Rance has hired five lawyers, some of whom he says have overcharged him and sometimes deliberately sabotaged his cases. He has had to petition the Ministry of Justice to find a lawyer he can trust.

"There are many foreigners who have filed cases similar to Ian Rance," says Surin Bumrungphol, who heads the Phuket Anti-Corruption Network, a campaign group. "In many cases the lawyers they hire actually work for the other side, for more money. The reason most of them lose is because of corrupt, incompetent lawyers, and the failure of law enforcement officers to do their job properly."
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Colin Vard lost eight properties in Phuket

Since I started working on this story a number of foreigners have contacted me to tell me about their experience of different kinds of fraud on Phuket. In some cases the property deal they have signed up to has not been honoured. But only one other case matches Rance's in almost every detail.

Colin Vard also invested about £1m in Phuket, after a successful career in Dublin as an author and part-owner of a clothing factory. He lost a total of eight properties, over a similar time period. In some cases the same moneylenders who exploited Rance's wife were involved.

Vard's Thai partner, the mother of his son, has been sentenced to 17 years in prison for the fraud but evidence showing the involvement of several other people has been ignored by police. Vard has accused some police officers in Phuket of tampering with his criminal complaints by removing evidence from his files, so the cases fail in court - and he has discovered that the cousin of one police chief actually ended up with one of his stolen properties.

Colin Vard protests on the street

In desperation, in March this year Vard went with his two children into the central branch of a Thai bank he believes is connected to the fraud, and mounted a sit-down protest. He has done the same outside the police headquarters in Bangkok, blocking the traffic. Each time he has been promised a proper investigation.

But after five years, there has been no visible progress. The Thai police have assured the BBC that they are working on his case. The deputy governor in Phuket also promised Vard and the BBC in February that his case would be taken up, but to date nothing has happened.

Ian Rance has a new wife now, and they have a young baby girl. His main priority he says is to provide a proper home for the four children, and put them through school. With the boys' mother in prison, and his funds exhausted, this is a huge challenge. He cannot even consider returning to the UK, because of the requirements regarding income and savings, which in his case are now insufficient.

Ian Rance with his family
I asked him what he would say to those considering retiring and buying property in Phuket.

"Don't. Don't come here. The system of law is nowhere near as strong as you think it is going to be, there is no protection for you, and there are gangs of people victimising you. The lawyers have very little in the way of ethics or professionalism."
Thousands of foreigners have settled in Phuket without serious difficulties. But if things do go wrong, they may find it hard to get help from the police or the judicial system.

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**BaitongBoy** · 27-09-2015, 05:04 AM

Been done before...

**forreachingme** · 27-09-2015, 05:07 AM

ooooohh pictures do not show anymore by pasting...

**BobR** · 28-09-2015, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower

Don't blame the women they hang around for there children and hope things will change,then the old fart retires and he's around the house more and she thinks fek this I'm off.

Originally Posted by terry57

Originally Posted by BobR

Not to be mistaken for an anti-woman rant, but women often plan divorces years in advance yet manage to carry on in the marriage in a way that leaves her partner blindsided when it happens.

I can recall quite a few cases in Perth were Guys retired and the next thing you hear the wife has walked out.

They are lucky really because usually the Kids are grown up so no ongoing maintenance issues and all assets split 50/50.

Sure does dumb down their lifestyle and expectations though.

I never say a word simply because the guy may of been an arsehole when at home.

Smart women hang in there to maximize their pay out when splitting from the man especially when he has shit load in his Superannuation account.

Oh yes,

The old marriage vows are a load of shit when it all goes South.

My brother is on the verge of divorce after 33 years of being married

Both his kids are raised, graduated college and have good jobs. His wife was an excellent mother, but apparently is a shitty wife, and while she was quite attractive when he married her, she is at least 150 kilos (no exaggeration) now.

If he's an alcoholic, he's a well functioning one (he's a CPA) but I haven't seen him without a beer in his hand and at least somewhat intoxicated in the last 15 years.

His comment is "we have nothing in common any more." I can see why but keep my mouth shut.

I invited him to come over here a few years back, (money is absolutely not an issue for him) and she refused to let him go. (Once again I said nothing.)

I don't envy him, and don't know how anyone can live like that.

**Nawtier** · 28-09-2015, 05:12 PM

At 150kg.....she's a lot of upkeep.....divorce will be messy

**BobR** · 29-09-2015, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Nawtier

At 150kg.....she's a lot of upkeep.....divorce will be messy

Fortunately for him she's a high school teacher with a good pension, that would offset some of the financial grief. Granted I do feel some sympathy for her; she has a medical problem, she's not that fat just from overeating.

**Iceman123** · 29-09-2015, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by BobR

Originally Posted by Nawtier

At 150kg.....she's a lot of upkeep.....divorce will be messy

she has a medical problem, she's not that fat just from overeating.

Can nobody just be a fat American bastard today? Or do we need the PC excuses?
No doubt she is yet another under active thyroid case.
Well I will give you the big tip, there were not too many fat thyroid cases wandering around the Warsaw Ghetto in '44!

**surinboy** · 25-03-2017, 10:00 AM

The Phuket property nightmare - BBC News

What are your thoughts on this?

**baldrick** · 25-03-2017, 10:23 AM

it is not your house

kiss your missus on the clit every evening

**VocalNeal** · 25-03-2017, 10:23 AM

Can probably happen in many places?

"I'd made my money in England and had enough to retire I thought.

Encouraged by this, Rance began investing in property, buying two houses, and eventually a restaurant and two pieces of land.

Why not just live here happily retired. But not has to go and prove to everyone including a greedy wife that he is loaded.

Secret here? Live well , keep your head down and never expose to your local wife how much money you actually have. Oh and never trust a local lawyer?

Ah I get it now? Their wives borrowed from the same money lender?

**Slick** · 25-03-2017, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by VocalNeal

Can probably happen in many places?

Thats never the argument now is it?

The truth is it happens here (or most other 3rd world/developing countries) with a frequency thats disturbing and should put anyone off from investing anything they cant afford to walk away from.

Thailand is corrupt as fuck, no 2 ways about it.

Anyway its never your/our/my home to start with.

**VocalNeal** · 25-03-2017, 10:34 AM

Mine was a statement, not an argument. So again as no one will be able to tell which of us is the stupid one, any form of discussion is futile.

But hey fill your boots in my absence.

**nidhogg** · 25-03-2017, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by OP

In 2001 Rance met and married a Thai woman called Suda and went on to have three children with her

Originally Posted by OP

Ian Rance has a new wife now, and they have a young baby girl.

Nothing like doubling down on stupidity.

**hick** · 25-03-2017, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by forreachingme

Ian Rance has a new wife now, and they have a young baby girl. His main priority he says is to provide a proper home for the four children, and put them through school. With the boys' mother in prison, and his funds exhausted, this is a huge challenge. He cannot even consider returning to the UK, because of the requirements regarding income and savings, which in his case are now insufficient.

If that's not a TEFLer in the making...

**Seekingasylum** · 26-03-2017, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by OP

In 2001 Rance met and married a Thai woman called Suda and went on to have three children with her

Originally Posted by OP

Ian Rance has a new wife now, and they have a young baby girl.

Nothing like doubling down on stupidity.

Not necessarily so if he has learned from his experience and bought a condo in his own name, something he should have done in the first place.

If these people love beach life so much and want a villa/house then quite why they didn't rent one using, say, the revenue they would get from renting out their own swish, luxury condo owned in its entirety, legally, by themselves, in Bangkok is mystifying.

Vard and Rance have been robbed blind in a jurisdiction which has even less rule of law than anywhere else in the country. The political metrics are all different there, too.

They simply have to accept that justice is impossible, if not highly unlikely, and walk away. A bitter pill indeed to swallow. Embassies and one's own Foreign Offices are of course utterly useless.

**nidhogg** · 26-03-2017, 12:25 PM

^ according to the article he is nearly "penniless". With three young kids already he bring a fourth sprog into the world. Not really good planning.

**lob** · 26-03-2017, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by jamescollister

I find it very strange indeed, someone gets off a plane at swampy, before the sun rises the next day, they have suspended all commonsense.

Some of the hair brained ideas they come up with, beggar belief, no though, no research, just charge in blind, spend, spend, spend.

My favor was the yank, 6 mil Baht in 2 weeks, after I told him, NO, NO, not a good idea.
Lost the lot, but one happy go go dancer.

yes,,,, just how long was the gogo dancer happy for, not very long before she needed a new sponcer i imagine. i have yet to meet see hear of a swindler being any better off, having ripped off the falang.... i do know a lady that still has investment and is very well off. she hasn't, to my knowledge ripped a falang off, in the style of this thread but she does milk them for all shes worth... oddly she was very good to me, which still confuses me to this day.

**lob** · 26-03-2017, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

I've no idea why they just didn't live quietly and happily of their retirement funds instead of trying to be the big shots. To pump over a million pounds into a country like this is insanity.

except she has a dick, or a gun in his pants. 555

**lob** · 26-03-2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by CSFFan

Originally Posted by sabang

Think of the many scores of thousand of farangs that came here with love in their heart, and hope in their minds.

And how many are going through troublesome divorces because of that hope?

there aint too many troublesome divorces in los ,,,, % wise next to none, wots to contest.

**lob** · 26-03-2017, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by terry57

^ ^

Well Jim,

I suppose when one is dealing with people who do not have 20 baht between them it's a fair bet that they may be dishonest just to get that bit more.

Unfortunately it is a common thread amoungst people who have very little.

That said, I'm not judging them as I may be the the same myself if piss poor and no pot to piss in.

But to judge all Thais as inherently dishonest is not quite on the money.

the human race is inherently dishonest,,,, do some research on your own politicians,,, the brits for sure.

**lob** · 26-03-2017, 01:24 PM

Sad to see Rance has involved his kids in this.[/quote]
not at all.. how else do u expect to get an education if ur kept in the dark. might end up the only positive in the whole scenario.

**Little Chuchok** · 26-03-2017, 01:44 PM

He should have gone to a Law firm like Baker McKenzie. very expensive, but a reasonable reputation for getting things done.

**lob** · 26-03-2017, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by naptownmike

This guy must be dense. Did he have no sense that his wife was a conniving b*tch. Surely there must have been some signs that all was not going well.

u havn't been through many divorces have u.

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