Thread: The Lions Are Coming

Jocks do not have the stomach to play away from home.

^Sure they do. It's just individual quality and character that they lack. Playing their dire version of the game for decades obviously hasn't helped. Nice that a decent coach can get a good team performance out of them.
Just a bit slow to adapt to the professional game really.

As you appear to be shit stirring, I'll say no more for now.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Fact is Scotland finished 4th in the 6N and in the game that counted most, against England, they choked, barely fired a shot, and were smashed.

I dare say that informed and influenced some of Gatlands thinking. NZ is the last place you want to tour with players who can't handle pressure.

They won 3 and lost 2 beating Wales, Ireland and Italy and losing to France in Paris which they really could and should have won and getting thrashed by England which was due to a dumb yellow card at start of game from which they never recovered still scored 3 tries though in defeat. So using your logic Wales finished 5th yet had 12 or so players in the original squad compared to Scotland's 2 and this is a team whose back row got completely destroyed by Scotland's for the second half, go watch the game or the second half anyway will only waste 40 mins of your life and you will see the absurdity of their being 4 Welsh back row forwards in the squad and 0 from Scotland.

Great, so like I said then they choked. And it's not my logic as I had nothing to do with the selection of the Lions squad - unbelievable I know. The point is however that 40min of good rugby no more makes a Lions player than a single swallow makes a summer.

And you can be assured that Gatland based his selection on not only more than just the 6N but more than one half of rugby during the 6N. How players deal with and handle pressure for instance. And how did they follow that 40min up during the next 80 when the pressure was on and it counted? They were utter shit, that's how.

Jeez no wonder Vern Cotter got the hell out of Dodge. Players who choke and nothing but whinging and whining and unrealistic expectations from the 'supporters'.

How did you celebrate Ant ?

Four released from AB squad to play for Hurricanes on Tuesday

Hurricanes team to play the Lions: Jordie Barrett, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Vince Aso, Ngani Laumape, Julian Savea, Otere Black, Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Brad Shields (c), Callum Gibbins, Vaea Fifita, Sam Lousi, Mark Abbott, Jeff To’omaga-Allen, Ricky Riccitelli, Ben May.

Reserves: Leni Apisai, Chris Eves, Mike Kainga, James Blackwell, Reed Prinsep, Kemara Hauiti-Parapara, Wes Goosen, Cory Jane.

Cory Jane – played for Wellington Lions v BI Lions in 2005; Jerome Kaino played for Auckland on that tour, unsure, they may be the only ones to face the Lions 2005 and 2017?

Hmmm... if Laumape has been released to play in that game then you've got to wonder what he was doing in the squad in the first place??

Or is Crotty's injury not as bad as first thought?

Originally Posted by prawnograph

Four released from AB squad to play for Hurricanes on Tuesday

Hurricanes team to play the Lions: Jordie Barrett, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Vince Aso, Ngani Laumape, Julian Savea, Otere Black, Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Brad Shields (c), Callum Gibbins, Vaea Fifita, Sam Lousi, Mark Abbott, Jeff To’omaga-Allen, Ricky Riccitelli, Ben May.

Reserves: Leni Apisai, Chris Eves, Mike Kainga, James Blackwell, Reed Prinsep, Kemara Hauiti-Parapara, Wes Goosen, Cory Jane.

Cory Jane – played for Wellington Lions v BI Lions in 2005; Jerome Kaino played for Auckland on that tour, unsure, they may be the only ones to face the Lions 2005 and 2017?

Standard routine from AB's.

Take out foley and murray is possible and then cake walk next saturday again.

Will Dylan Hartley get a call up ?

Scarily quick and feisty wingers. Just what Gatlands midweek side need.

Maybe let a few Jocks play. Get them used to quality rugby.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Maybe let a few Jocks play. Get them used to quality rugby.

Hope not. I want to hear bboy's high-pitched whining again.

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

Will Dylan Hartley get a call up ?

No need, Lions already have a great hooker, until Best comes on as replacement.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

Will Dylan Hartley get a call up ?

No need, Lions already have a great hooker, until Best comes on as replacement.

You could be right.

Some random post-Test thoughts/musings:

- Gatland has lost the plot, between inferences that Murray is being deliberately targeted to be taken out to comments about the standard of the All Blacks play. He's trying to cover and/or distract from the Lions performance but is only succeeding in handing Hansen team speeches.

- He does have a point though, taken as a whole the AB's were a bit average and it was moments of brilliance that won it for them but they will very likely improve for the second test... Will the Lions?

- Brodie Retallick... He's not human.

- Kieran Read... Has the same non-human DNA as Retallick, all that time out of rugby and comes back and plays a blinder.

- Liam Williams... Probably the most unlikely looking player on either team (with the possible exception of Ben Smith) but fully deserves the reputation he came to NZ with. Utter klarse.

- Conor Murray... Yeah, not so much. At least I'm not seeing it. A lot of NZ press had him rated as there or thereabouts with Aaron Smith for the 'Best Nine in the World' title. Personally I think the player challenging Smith for that title is on the same team and came off the bench, TJ Perenara. Murray's a great player no doubt, but take away the box-kicking (which is unbelievably good, granted) and he's a little pedestrian.

I would target Murray which I thought the AB's would have done but took it to the front 5 first which was always having a play on whoever was @ 9

Sexton needs to start and kick deep which he can do and then look to impose some pressure.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

as a whole the AB's were a bit average

I thought they played as well as the Lions allowed them to mate with their swarming defense and turnovers as well as pressured them at the line-outs.

One thing that did impress me was the AB's scrum. I thought the Lion's would challenge them there.

In fact I think to get rid of the flankers would open up the game as with this Rugby code I believe there are too many players on the field. Just my two cents worth.

If anything I think the Lions benefited more from the outing even though they lost.

Game two should be a blinder.

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

I thought they played as well as the Lions allowed them to mate with their swarming defense and turnovers as well as pressured them at the line-outs.

Spot on. That's why I think they'll improve for the second test, they'll be better for the experience.

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

One thing that did impress me was the AB's scrum. I thought the Lion's would challenge them there.

I was kinda expecting that to be honest. The Crusaders game was a good indicator because they fielded an All Black front row.

That whole 'NH forwards superiority' thing has been a bit of a baseless myth for ages now, a persistent one though.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

That whole 'NH forwards superiority' thing has been a bit of a baseless myth for ages now, a persistent one though.

It's been caused by the Aussies who cannot form a decent scrum.

Even the Italians blew them off the park last Saturday and should have been awarded a penalty try.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Liam Williams... Probably the most unlikely looking player on either team (with the possible exception of Ben Smith) but fully deserves the reputation he came to NZ with. Utter klarse.

He's still very much a work in progress, with youthful inexperience. Give Gatland a year with him and all that natural flair will have been excised from his game.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Conor Murray.

Good but limited. Several better scrum halves back in UK sat on their hands.

Originally Posted by Plan B

I was impressed that the ABs came into the game with a whole new game plan. The expansive, quick offloads in contact game wasn't gonna work against the rush defence that the Lions used successfully to shut down the Crusaders. That boring league style of one pass and run the ball worked quite well. Wasn't the exciting rugby we normally expect from the ABs and made them look a bit ordinary but it did the job.

The rush defense, if there was one was very poor. Farrell was obviously discouraged from playing the much flatter passing game that proved so successful against lesser teams.
As for the AB's passing and offloading game, I thought a lot of it was quite exquisite.

The enforced ploy of moving Farrell to 12 to allow Sexton to come on is not working.
Gatland should put in Itoje for Jones and let Farrell and Jaimie George finish the game. If Farrell's kicking came is not working there are others infield who are very reliable, Daley for one.
I think they backed off bit from the rush defence, and the flat passing game because they fear the AB's could capitalise on it. Let's try it next test and do it properly.

Gatland picked a side that could play but stifled them with being over wary.

Hurricanes v Lions today! Canes have named a reasonably strong line-up so could be an interesting one.

In other news, Gatland is being savaged in the NZ press. The basic line being: 'don't question the AB's playing ethics / morals / integrity / infer they are dirty / cheating cnuts, you cnut'.

Win, lose or draw from here on it and Gatland will be leaving NZ without some of the reputation he arrived with.

*Yawn*

Tedious Attention Whore Troll is being tedious. Again.

Lions do have a decent mid-week side, apart from Rory Best. On the bright side, Best is unlikely to face Savea or Milner-Skudder. If the AB's can afford to stand down that kind of destructive talent, we are in for a very tough second test.

Gatts is coming across as a bit desperate, even if his perceptions have a grain of truth in them, they are best kept in the dressing room. Why open his big mouth and put both feet in it. Like The AB's need any more motivation.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Gatts is coming across as a bit desperate, even if his perceptions have a grain of truth in them

That's pretty much exactly along the same lines as I was reading earlier.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

That's pretty much exactly along the same lines as I was reading earlier.

He's not completely stupid (probably) so I can only assume he's creating heat for himself to take some of the focus off the players.

He should be looking forward to retirement at his age. Doubt he'll get a proper job in NZ after this tour and he's taken Wales as far as he can. Time to move over.
Can't be short of a bob or two. Has he written a book yet?

Originally Posted by chassamui

He's not completely stupid (probably) so I can only assume he's creating heat for himself to take some of the focus off the players.

That could be it. I also think he's not handling the pressure very well, hence the ill-advised statements and comments.

The Lions coaching gig can be a bit of a poisoned chalice in some respects I think - for e.g. Woodward who was always thought of as an utter twat in NZ was still at least respected as a coach for what he achieved with England but that went out the window after the 2005 tour.