Thread: Thailand’s Retirement Visa Income Requirement in Question Due to Foreign Gangs

The police in Thailand are now looking into five major biker gangs based in the country after arresting the leader, an Austrian national, and some members of the Outlaws Motorcycle Club.


The arrest of gang boss “Mr Thomas” follows the June murder of Hans Peter Walter Mack, 62, a German property trader in Nong Prue district, Chon Buri, by a gang member, Olaf Thorsten Brinkmann.

Police also detained three more suspects in the murder case: Petra Christl Grundgreif, 54, Nicole Frevel, 52, and Shahrukh Karim Uddin, 27.


According to Pol Gen Surachate Hakparn, deputy national police chief, authorities are still attempting to eliminate crimes committed by foreign gangs in Thailand.


Five major gangs are on our radar, he said, listing them as the Outlaws Motorcycle Club or Outlaws MC, Hells Angels Motorcycle Club or Hells Angels, Bandidos Motorcycle Club or Bandido Nation, Mongols Motorcycle Club or Mongol Brotherhood and Vagos Motorcycle Club or Green Nation.


He added that the Outlaws had networks in Phuket and Koh Samui in Surat Thani and other parts of the country, primarily tourist spots.

Members of the gang typically ride large motorbikes such as Harley-Davidson motorcycles, have tattoos, and are involved in narcotic drug distribution as well as other criminal activities such as assault, extortion, theft, loan-sharking, fraud, money laundering, attempted murder, or murder.


He claims that most of the gangs in Thailand are run by Australians and are multinational outlaw motorcycle organizations with members from all over the world.


Some members travel to Thailand and dwell in tourist areas such as Phuket, Pattaya, and Koh Samui.


Their intended audience consists of foreigners. They demand protection costs from foreigners who wish to do business in cities where the gang is active, and they may even kidnap them for money.


“They don’t harm Thais because they know they’ll get in more trouble than foreigners who will soon fly back to their home countries,” he explained.


Changing Immigration Laws


According to Pol Gen Surachate, the gang members picked Thailand because of the lack of strict law enforcement and corrupt politicians.


As an example, he cited the Immigration Act. He claims that the 1979 law needs to be updated and revised.


For example, he said that acquiring a retirement visa is simple, adding that the law requires any foreigner over 50 to have at least 800,000 baht in their bank account or an income certificate with a monthly wage of at least 65,000 baht. That threshold needs to be higher and aid in screening qualified applications.


A lack of bank statement inspection by Immigration Bureau (IB) personnel allows some immigrants to disguise their bank accounts.


Some even receive assistance from visa firms or IB officials, like the February case in which 107 immigration officers assisted more than 3,000 Chinese nationals involved in “grey” businesses in obtaining visas, he claimed.


Stronger visa requirements could help keep gang members and individuals on international criminal blacklists out of the country.


“Foreigners do not feel safe as long as mafia gangs exist.” They might wish to avoid visiting Pattaya or investing in the Eastern Seaboard. This causes significant harm to the country,” he warned.


Safety of International Visitors in Thailand


According to Pol Gen Surachate, police must create trust among locals and visitors. They must uphold the law and safeguard the safety of international visitors.


“We will root out bad actors not only among gangs, but also among police officers and agencies dealing with foreigners.” “When foreign visitors come to Thailand, we need to make them feel safe,” he stated.


Another example he gave was the kidnapping a 22-year-old Chinese student from her Chinese family for a ransom of 500,000 yuan (2.3 million baht).


In April, the student was discovered abused and murdered, with her body thrown in a ditch in Nonthaburi. China apprehended the kidnappers.


The news of the tragedy circulated quickly, scaring off many Chinese guests who decided not to visit the kingdom. In March, police detained three Chinese nationals for kidnapping a fellow citizen in Bangkok and extorting 3.2 million baht from her.


He added that the Chinese embassy warned its nationals about scams and frauds to keep them from falling victim. The occurrences demonstrate that Chinese visitors to Thailand are concerned about their safety.


“If we cannot suppress crimes against foreigners, not only Chinese visitors will avoid the place; visitors from other countries, such as those from Europe, will also avoid the place,” he stated.


Once a new government is in place, he will request that the new cabinet alter the immigration law, particularly regarding visa extensions, through the police chief.


“We will make the law tough to screen out bad people,” he said, “but it will also be a tool to help foreigners, especially investors, who can obtain a five-year visa without having to be checked every year.”


Regarding biker gangs, he stated that the Outlaws gang had been expelled from Pattaya. The police have expanded their probe into the group to include Phuket and Koh Samui.


“There will be no such crime gangs if police strictly enforce the law.” But if we slack off or become comfortable accepting bribes, international criminal organizations will scent it and travel to Thailand to cause havoc. “We must prevent that from happening for the sake of everyone’s safety,” he stated.

Thailand's Retirement Visa Income Requirement In Question Due To Foreign Gangs

Originally Posted by misskit

As an example, he cited the Immigration Act. He claims that the 1979 law needs to be updated and revised.

Bullshit. Law is fine. Like so many areas of government enforcement of the law is the issue because of the indemic corruption in the visa system.

Top Thai cop urges retirement visa rules to be tightened

Thailand’s best known crime cracker, police general Surachate Hakparn, has openly stated that one year retirement visas and extensions of stay are plagued by out-of-date regulations and corrupt practices. In an interview with the Bangkok Post, the deputy national police chief said that the requirement to have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, or its equivalent in annual foreign remittances, was too low as it failed to screen quality applicants. Police general Surachate added that “window dressing” of applicants’ bank accounts was a serious problem as visa agents and even some immigration officers colluded by providing short-term “loans”.

He continued that he would propose to the new Thai Cabinet that the 1979 immigration act, which still governs some visa practices, be replaced. Police general Surachate did not detail his policy recommendations for retirement visa extensions apart from emphasizing that the entry bar was set too low and was too easily circumvented. The context of his interview was the all-importance of getting rid of foreign motorbike gangs plaguing Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui in particular. Sociologists call this approach “deviancy amplification” as it highlights one particular criminal issue in order to justify policy action against a much wider group in society.

Police general Surachate’s observations have struck a chord as he is a former commander of both the tourist police division and, for a short period, the immigration bureau in 2018-19. In the past few years, there have been occasional attempts to toughen the bureaucracy for retirees such as introducing compulsory medical insurance for some visas and extensions – notably the “O/A” retiree option initially issued by a Thai embassy – and by checking bank books three months after the granting of an annual extension. But the efforts were largely non-consequential.

Although there are several visas suitable for single or retired retirees including Elite, Long Term Residence and Spouse options, the annually renewable retirement visa issued by the immigration bureau is far and away the most popular owing to its cheapness and easy availability for foreigners over 50 years. But it will likely be many months before policy revisions, if any, appear in the public forum. Concerns are already being raised about “the baby being thrown out with the bath water”. Most Thai retirees are elderly men 65-90-plus with no interest in joining a foreign mafia or even boarding a motorbike. Except perhaps to go to the pub.

Top Thai cop urges retirement visa rules to be tightened - Pattaya Mail

^^ I totally agree. The problem is with their enforcement of the law.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

We've discussed this before and I remember getting shouted at for daring to suggest they carry out audits.

Up here in CM you are supposed to provide a years worth of bank statements to show you are complying with the law.

Other offices simply require a letter from the bank and a balance on the day.

Of course even here there are visa agents charging fortunes for effectively lending impoverished foreigners the money and fudging the paperwork with immigration assistance.

It isn't exactly hard to find out who's doing it.

Of course this fucking joker is just looking for a bit of press.

Err, ‘Arry, the fees go to the Col………oh, never mind.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Err, ‘Arry, the fees go to the Col………oh, never mind.

Well you just managed to avoid topping the "Stating the Fucking Obvious" charts for 2023. Well done.

Added: Ironically, and conveniently right across the road from the Chiang Mai Immigration Office, is this well known business. They don't even fucking hide it.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Err, ‘Arry, the fees go to the Col………oh, never mind.

Everyone knows what you know, you idiot.

Their responses concern what needs to be done if anyone actually cared enough.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Of course even here there are visa agents charging fortunes for effectively lending impoverished foreigners the money and fudging the paperwork with immigration assistance.

In my opinion, this is where it really needs to start if they want to begin to clean it up a bit. While Yes, it will hurt some of the expats that are here and do not have the funds but you have to start somewhere. I suspect that many of the riff raff are likely using agents to stay, easy to stay off the radar.

If they are going to reform the Visa requirements then they better fix the immigration offices to align and root out corruption....Ahhh nevermind. This is just another news clip that will fall into the bin.

As you were........

Originally Posted by Stumpy

In my opinion, this is where it really needs to start if they want to begin to clean it up a bit. While Yes, it will hurt some of the expats that are here and do not have the funds but you have to start somewhere. I suspect that many of the riff raff are likely using agents to stay, easy to stay off the radar.

If they are going to reform the Visa requirements then they better fix the immigration offices to align and root out corruption....Ahhh nevermind. This is just another news clip that will fall into the bin.

As you were........

Surely you can’t be that clueless and naive ?

The agency ‘fees’ are a fucking revenue stream.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Surely you can’t be that clueless and naive ?

The agency ‘fees’ are a fucking revenue stream.

And what exactly do you think he meant by: "they better fix the immigration offices to align and root out corruption".

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

And what exactly do you think he meant by: "they better fix the immigration offices to align and root out corruption".

Ffs, you’re in Thailand, that comment is as absurd as a fish riding a fucking bicycle.

You fucking idiot.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Ffs, you’re in Thailand, that comment is as absurd as a fish riding a fucking bicycle.

You fucking idiot.

You seem to think your vantage point on the boyfriend's balcony offers you unique insights into the nature of corruption in Thai immigration.

Because you're a fucking moron.

‘Big Joke’ better be careful. He was transferred himself a couple of years ago for extracting anomalous fees from Chinese visitors and of course the beneficiaries of bogus applications facilitated by fees funnelled through bent visa agents are immigration staff themselves.

But the dumbest thing about this stupid talk is that it is the very wealth of these gangsters that ensures their settlement as retirees.
Increasing the financial threshold is peanuts to them and only a challenge to genuine folk.
Anyway, everyone knows that most foreign gangsters and criminals are in cahoots with local forces.

The hypocrisy of Thai is truly rancid.

Isn’t it fairly obvious that a criminal background check would be more appropriate as a prerequisite to dishing out NON-IMMIGRANT visas, to avoid filling your country with criminals?

Any document can be forged but if it fails to convince upon scrutiny then it might still past muster in return for a consideration……

And a criminal check is only relevant if there is a conviction, many intent on crime have none.

And of course excluding the more advanced countries, a negative check can be bought from most of the world.

Sometimes, the naivety of posters here is truly quite impressive. Almost as stupid as the Thai.

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Any document on the planet can be forged.

A follow up with the applicant's Government can be obtained with signed permissions and a small handling fee plus expenses, all included in the visa fee.

It's not rocket science.

I'm more impressed with the manner in which you present your own naivety whilst trying to belittle others, with the largest display of stupidity on the page.

Actually a chipped document can’t be forged successfully but I don't think criminal history clearances have them yet.

A follow up with the applicants government can be obtained………….????????? What the fuck are you babbling on about.

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Any document on the planet can be forged.

A follow up with the applicant's Government can be obtained with signed permissions and a small handling fee plus expenses, all included in the visa fee.

Actually a criminal background check normally contains a link to a foreign government website to validate it, so if that doesn't work it's obviously dodgy.

But, as the OP implied, policies are lax since you can get a Non-Imm 'O' without a background check, even though the Non Imm 'OA' requires one.

Let's be frank here. This is never going to happen so debating it is rather pointless. It will no doubt introduce a level of concern to the ones not on the up and up but give it a few weeks. It will be forgotten

It's the same corruption you can find in any country, it just that some hide it better than others.

Originally Posted by Stumpy

It's the same corruption you can find in any country, it just that some hide it better than others.

Not quite, it’s systemic here. Sure, in coon, dago tinpot, banana and African republics, Asia and some US states corruption is endemic but to say the same level of corruption to be found in Thailand is to be found in any country is just stupid.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Increasing the financial threshold is peanuts to them and only a challenge to genuine folk.

Spot on. Wouldn't matter the financial requirement as long as a corrupt immigration official can give you a "temporary loan" using a fake bank letter for record purposes.

Originally Posted by Stumpy

This is just another news clip that will fall into the bin.

Tis indeed.

I recall a few years back before Hakparn’s fall from grace over the Chink extortion scams he was intent on changing the whole culture of farang gaining residence in Thailand. The thrust of it was to get rid of all the current retirees and replace them with premium folk along the lines of Malaysia.

I suspect this drivel over foreign criminals is merely a springboard from which he can relaunch his earlier plans.

With Pheua Thai forming a government with their previous allies, the Bumjaithai Crew, the auspices are not looking good. Thaksin and Anutin Charnvirakul do not like farang and with the old alliance teamed up with the Chidjob clan again, Hakparn has got a lot of soulmates.

Those of us with Thai wives have some insurance but swinging dicks such as ‘Arry and his ilk are possibly facing an uncertain future.

Still, they can join Chas on Kuta Beach, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

I recall a few years back before Hakparn’s fall from grace over the Chink extortion scams he was intent on changing the whole culture of farang gaining residence in Thailand. The thrust of it was to get rid of all the current retirees and replace them with premium folk along the lines of Malaysia.

I suspect this drivel over foreign criminals is merely a springboard from which he can relaunch his earlier plans.

With Pheua Thai forming a government with their previous allies, the Bumjaithai Crew, the auspices are not looking good. Thaksin and Anutin Charnvirakul do not like farang and with the old alliance teamed up with the Chidjob clan again, Hakparn has got a lot of soulmates.

Those of us with Thai wives have some insurance but swinging dicks such as ‘Arry and his ilk are possibly facing an uncertain future.

Still, they can join Chas on Kuta Beach, I suppose.

I think you mean "our Thai wives have some insurance", in that they'll bag everything you own as soon as you're deported for being skint.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I think you mean "our Thai wives have some insurance", in that they'll bag everything you own as soon as you're deported for being skint.

Do you masturbate a lot. Your literary style suggests an overwhelming onanism. And thinking of men as you do so…..

Har, har.