Thread: Coup 2014 !!!! : Military 'takes control' in Thailand

Originally Posted by thegent

I've always said Thailand would benefit from a benign dictator rather than it's utterly bogus and perverted democracy.

So where have you been, Gent?
It's been like this quite some time now - regardless of the periods of false "democratic" presence.

More o' the same.

Enjoy lads and ladies.

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Switched it on for a few hours then switched it off again.

My maid can damn well tell you it was 6 minutes maximum. Besides that nobody watches channel 5 Lakorn which is the only thing on . Every channel including all of True.

Farmers will be paid in 15 to 20 days, bet no one seen that coming. made me laugh out loud, wonder what populist policies prayuth and co have up there sleeves.

Originally Posted by taxexile

just reported on the army broadcast that ministry of finance workers have been ordered to work overtime (saturday and sunday) to organise payments to the farmers who have gone unpaid for their rice

http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874...and-coup-live/

8.55pm: Meanwhile in the Northeastern city of Khon Kaen, via our friends at The Isaan Record:

Silent Anti-Coup protests in Khon Kaen by student activists #protests #ThaiCoup #Thailand #Coup2014 pic.twitter.com/H5ahL0jkGc
— The Isaan Record (@isaanrecord) May 23, 2014

8.25pm: Naew Na reports that Yingluck is being moved to a military base in Saraburi and intended to be held for three days. 7.50pm: Meanwhile, the whereabouts of former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra and her inner circle are still unknown. Bangkok Post’s military correspondent Wassana Nanuam tweets that she and other family member are being detained by the military but unsure where:

Deep Blue Sea @WassanaNanuam Follow
แหล่งข่าว ยืนยันว่า อดีตนายกฯ ยิ่งลักษณ์ โดยทหารควบคุมตัว ไว้แล้วพรัอมแกนนำสายชินวัตร กปปส.ที่มารายงานตัววันนี้ทั้งหมด ยังไม่รู้สถานที่

Jonathan Head @pakhead Follow
Prayuth playing hardball with the Shinawatras. Homes in Chiang Mai searched. Yingluck et al locked up. Maybe to pressure Thaksin to give in.

Looks like Yingluck and her circle hv now been separated and taken to different military camps around the country.

Originally Posted by aging one

6 minutes maximum

Was it enough - or has she started twitching again?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

The army is utterly corrupt and has just as many "mafia" style individuals in it as the police here....No one gets to the top, in the police or the army, without having been involved in some dubious practices.

More o' the same.

List of coups d'état and coup attempts by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pesek makes some excellent points here (not the same as the Pesek article posted in a separate thread on markets, btw):
Why This Thai Coup Matters More - Bloomberg View
Thaksin Shinawatra is living proof that leaders get the popularity thing all wrong. From Barack Obama to Indonesia's Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, they try governing well, articulating a vision and inspiring -- and their approval ratings plummet.

Thailand’s Thaksin tried a different approach. From 2001 to 2006, the tycoon broke laws, lined his pockets, neutered courts and was even accused of crimes against humanity in a war against drugs, then fled overseas in 2008 to avoid prison. Yet nearly eight years after being ousted as prime minister, he couldn’t be more popular among his "Red Shirt" supporters from the country's poorer northeast. And that's what makes this latest Thai coup arguably more dangerous than 12 earlier military takeovers in the past eight decades.

Never mind that no one outside the army chiefs who grabbed power Thursday can explain why a coup was even necessary. In 2008, the Red Shirts who rallied around Thaksin were a ragtag bunch. Today, they’re organized, politically aware, better financed and raring for a fight. They’ve spent recent years building political networks and mobilizing supporters -- efforts that put a Thaksin avatar in the prime minister’s office in 2011, his sister Yingluck Shinawatra (she was ousted on May 7 by the courts, and today was summoned to meet with coup leaders).

Even though several Red Shirt leaders have been rounded up and arrested, their political machine is already churning into action. As Thitinan Pongsudhirak of Bangkok’s Chulalongkorn University told Bloomberg News: “The opposition and resistance to the coup will likely be strong. This time the looming confrontation and clashes are going to be severe and violent.”

Why does Thaksin still inspire such loyalty after all this time? My take is that rural Thais have a surreally romanticized view of his populist “Thaksinomics” program. Thaksin effectively bribed communities around the nation with waves of public largess -- cash, subsidies, moratoriums on debt payments and other goodies. Who doesn’t love a leader who comes to town tossing treats around? But the money just provided a sugar high and did little to create balanced and sustainable growth -- which is what Thaksin's followers really need. The handouts were a giant smokescreen to distract supporters while Thaksin weakened governing institutions in Bangkok to enrich himself and his cronies.

To me, the best explanation of what the former premier was up to is found in “What’s the Matter With Kansas?,” which historian Thomas Frank published in 2004 at the height of the Thaksin era. The book explores how conservative leaders in the U.S. and elsewhere trick lower-middle class citizens to vote against their economic interests. Sure, Thaksin’s cash handouts seemed like a godsend. But by making Thailand his own, he singlehandedly wrecked the nation’s democracy, competitiveness and global reputation.

If Thailand had an effective political opposition, one would think they'd be able to expose the hollowness of Thaksin's programs in an election. [*Emboldening mine- rob; might be interesting to hear thoughts on why the Democrats are unable- or unwilling, imo- to do so] Instead, by intervening yet again, the Thai military is perceived to be doing the bidding of the Bangkok elite, the royalist "Yellow Shirts." Rather than puncturing Thaksin's aura, the generals have simply burnished it further. If they now throw his sister into jail, she'll become yet another martyr for the Red Shirts.

With no exit strategy visible for the generals, this coup could easily prove to be an unmitigated disaster, even a prelude to full-blown civil war. The odds of a credible election that heals Thailand’s wounds over the next few years are in the single digits right now. Yet there is no other means of establishing a stable government that both the international community and the Red Shirts will accept. The 0.6 percent drop in gross domestic product in the three months through March is only the beginning of economic fallout to come.

Asian markets are largely ignoring this week’s events in Bangkok, figuring we’ve seen this before. They’re being complacent. Thursday’s coup demonstrates a debilitating level of political dysfunction that’s gradually pulling Thailand in the direction of Egypt and Tunisia, not South Korea. Rather than end Thailand’s political nightmare, this coup could drive the country toward whole new levels of chaos.

To contact the writer of this article: William Pesek at [email protected]

To contact the editor responsible for this article: Nisid Hajari at [email protected]

Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog

They'll wet themselves with blood if shooting starts.

Vague threats of tablet computers, smart phones and a 'like' campaign on Facebook from some Uni's flabby little angry birds are not going to derail a well-tooled army.

The big point in case is that there was no shooting. It seems to have been lost on you.

I'm pretty sure those folks know they are potentially endangering their life and risk being arrested but they protest anyway. I expect there to be much more of them hitting the streets in the days to come, especially as the week-end is coming.

This refusal to meekly submit to an illegitimate junta's authority is actually fantastic. It's a much, much more effective weapon than guns to undermine the effort of the generals to gain an authority that they have no legitimacy to exercise. And note that until now, the power takeover has not got any form of blessing from the palace.

It seems to me that Prayuth's position is not as strong as some make it to be.

Originally Posted by taxexile

This is most revealing...and rather worrying....

Insider's report on coup decision | Bangkok Post: Most recent

Insider's report on coup decision

Published: 23 May 2014 at 17.37
Online news:

Less than 24 hours after the coup, Matichon Online had an account of events leading up to what is probably the most publicly staged coup in history.

This is its report:

At 2pm on Thursday, representatives of seven groups began the second day of peace talks hosted by army commander Prayuth Chan-ocha.

The general began by asking all sides what they could do about the five issues he had asked them to consider on the previous day, a source at the closed-door meeting told Matichon Online.

Wan Muhamad Nor Matha of the Pheu Thai Party said the best his party could do was to ask ministers to take leave of absence or vacation.

Chaikasem Nitisiri of the caretaker government insisted cabinet members would be breaking the law and could be sued later if they resigned.

Abhisit Vejjajiva of the Democrat Party disagreed, citing as a precedent Visanu Krue-ngam, who had previously resigned as acting deputy prime minister, but Mr Chaikasem stood his ground.

Veerakarn Musikapong of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) said this debate was useless and a person would need a mattress and a pillow if they were to continue with it.

This was like discussing a religious faith in which everyone was firm in his belief. The army chief had a lot on his shoulders now because he came when the water was already waist-high.

If he continued, Mr Veerakarn said, he would be drowned. The army chief should walk away and announced there would be election. That way, his name would be untarnished.

At this point, Gen Prayuth snapped back: "Stop it. Religious issues I don't know much about. What I do know is I'll hunt down each and every one of those 'infidels'. Don't worry about me drowning. I'm a good swimmer and I've studied the situation for three years.

"Back in 2010, I didn't have absolute power. So don't fight me. I was accused of accepting six billion baht in exchange of doing nothing. I insist I didn't get even one baht."

At this point, Jatuporn Prompan of the UDD appeared more appeasing, saying since an election could not be held now anyway, the best solution was to hold a referendum on whether national reform should come before or after the next election.

The debate went on for a while before Suthep Thaugsuban of the People's Democratic Reform Committee said political parties were not involved in this.

"This was a problem between the UDD and the PDRC," he declared.

He proposed the two groups meet in a separate session.

Mr Abhisit said the government should also join in, but Mr Suthep insisted on only the people's groups.

Gen Prayuth allowed the two groups to meet separately.

In the meantime, Mr Abhisit suggested other participants should go home now that the two sides were in talks, but Gen Prayuth insisted on everyone staying where they were until a conclusion was reached.

The UDD and PDRC sides talked for 30 minutes.

After that, Gen Prayuth led them back to the meeting, saying he would announce the results of the talks.

At that point, Mr Suthep asked for a minute and walked over to say something with Gen Prayuth, with Mr Jatuporn present.

When they were done, Gen Prayuth said: "It's nothing. We talked about how the restrooms are not in order."

After that, the army chief asked the government side whether it insisted on not resigning.

Mr Chaikasem said:" We won't resign".

Gen Prayuth then declared: "If that's the case, the Election Commission need not talk about the polls and the Senate need not talk about Section 7."

He then stood up and spoke in a loud voice: "I'm sorry. I have to seize the ruling power."

It was 4.32pm.

At that point some of the attendees still thought he was joking.

They changed their minds when the general walked to the exit and turned back to tell them in a stern voice: "You all stay here. Don't go anywhere."

He then left the room.

After that armed soldiers came to detain the participants in groups. Notably, Prompong Nopparit who came in the government's quota was detained with the UDD group in a separate room.

Mr Veerakarn had a smile on his face and forgot his cane.

Mr Abhisit told Varathep Rattanakorn and Chadchart Sittipunt of the government: "I told you so".

A pale-faced Chadchart snapped:"So what? What's the point of saying it now?"

The military put the Democrat and Pheu Thai parties in the same room while the rest were put in different rooms.

The senators and election commissioners were let out first.

The rest is history.

it reads like a monty python sketch,

and i'm pleased to see the general treated the squabbling idiot politicians with the disdain they deserved, took no shit, banged his fists and told them all to fuck off.

excellent move.

i think the general has hit the ground running and long may he continue.

Good to see the legitimate democratically minded stand their ground in their representation of the people.

Let's see if the general sees fit to grant himself immunity from prosecution in his new constitution.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by nidhogg

The idea of Thailand being under control of an organized, determined person who believes in "service" (a very old concept!) is quite attractive, although of course politically abhorent (LOL).

I would be inclined to agree provided he belives in "Service before Self" (an older and more dignified concept).

Disagree, with such attributes he could have put himself up in an election , but without the guns he is a nothing.

Originally Posted by robuzo

Pesek makes some excellent points here (not the same as the Pesek article posted in a separate thread on markets, btw):
Why This Thai Coup Matters More - Bloomberg View
Rather than end Thailand’s political nightmare, this coup could drive the country toward whole new levels of chaos.

Yeah, great article, thanks. He pretty much nailed it.

this must be the fastest thread to reach 25 pages in the history of TD

TO the Army;
Job well done.
Now , what your next move?

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by nidhogg

The idea of Thailand being under control of an organized, determined person who believes in "service" (a very old concept!) is quite attractive, although of course politically abhorent (LOL).

I would be inclined to agree provided he belives in "Service before Self" (an older and more dignified concept).

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by thegent

I've always said Thailand would benefit from a benign dictator rather than it's utterly bogus and perverted democracy.

So where have you been, Gent?
It's been like this quite some time now - regardless of the periods of false "democratic" presence.

Indeed

Originally Posted by Phuketrichard

fastest thread to reach 25 pages in the history of TD

naah.....the last coup thread was better.

Originally Posted by Yasojack

Farmers will be paid in 15 to 20 days, bet no one seen that coming. made me laugh out loud, wonder what populist policies prayuth and co have up there sleeves.

Originally Posted by taxexile

just reported on the army broadcast that ministry of finance workers have been ordered to work overtime (saturday and sunday) to organise payments to the farmers who have gone unpaid for their rice

Well the senate and courts won't like him overriding their previous decisions

might be interesting to hear thoughts on why the Democrats are unable- or unwilling, imo- to do so

it can only be complacency, and deluding themselves into feeling somehow protected.

thats an interesting read, but i tend to think he exaggerates the risk of civil war.

the general will surely have taken all those points into account whilst planning this coup and the subsequent reforms and have some plan for placating and "re-educating the natives" in order to gradually bring them on-side.

Originally Posted by taxexile

the general will surely have taken all those points into account whilst planning this coup and the subsequent reforms and have some plan for placating and "re-educating the natives" in order to gradually bring them on-side.

life is pain

Originally Posted by taxexile

might be interesting to hear thoughts on why the Democrats are unable- or unwilling, imo- to do so

it can only be complacency, and deluding themselves into feeling somehow protected.

Yes and yes, to which I would add, I think they just can't bear the thought of pandering to the hired help. I don't think Isaaners on the whole believe that Thaksin really cares about improving their position, but at least he is willing to give the brown people a reacharound. The yellows would still rather beat the serf than throw him a bone.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by taxexile

thats an interesting read, but i tend to think he exaggerates the risk of civil war.

Maybe. Civil war depends on defection from the army- enough of that and the MIB and border cops join in. Thais don't strike me as generally willing to lay down their lives for principles and ideas, and at this point the fight would be too uneven. Of course, that's using a definition of "civil war" denoting battlefield conflict. If certain cities in the N-NE were to decide to reject orders from Bangkok things could develop differently, but again, that would mean at the least economic sacrifice on the part of the, ahem, civic leaders.

Originally Posted by taxexile

the general will surely have taken all those points into account whilst planning this coup and the subsequent reforms and have some plan for placating and "re-educating the natives" in order to gradually bring them on-side.

If by "placating and re-educating the natives" you mean terrorizing and beating into submission anyone who doesn't go along with Ocha-chan's aims then yes, I'm sure there is a plan and it isn't going to be subtle.

Originally Posted by KimDidMeGood

Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog

They'll wet themselves with blood if shooting starts.

Vague threats of tablet computers, smart phones and a 'like' campaign on Facebook from some Uni's flabby little angry birds are not going to derail a well-tooled army.

The big point in case is that there was no shooting. It seems to have been lost on you.

.

Ah and what has been lost on you was that there was no shooting.

That's because being assaulted by a youth with a ipad camera looking for brave selfies for his social network doesn't merit a lethal response.

It just makes the army look reasonable.

If they want to link arms and march towards the line.
If they stand in front of a tank and defy it to change direction.

Then that takes balls.

Yes, Tiananmen-style resistance where you risk sacrificing yourself for your beliefs. Not risk-free, pouff-style 'Facebook' selfie resistance.

Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog

Tiananmen-style resistance where you risk sacrificing yourself for your beliefs.

Who among you are willing to leave the Leo and fight for your freedom?

Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog

Originally Posted by KimDidMeGood

Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog

They'll wet themselves with blood if shooting starts.

Vague threats of tablet computers, smart phones and a 'like' campaign on Facebook from some Uni's flabby little angry birds are not going to derail a well-tooled army.

The big point in case is that there was no shooting. It seems to have been lost on you.

.

Ah and what has been lost on you was that there was no shooting.

That's because being assaulted by a youth with a ipad camera looking for brave selfies for his social network doesn't merit a lethal response.

It just makes the army look reasonable.

If they want to link arms and march towards the line.
If they stand in front of a tank and defy it to change direction.

Then that takes balls.

Yes, Tiananmen-style resistance where you risk sacrificing yourself for your beliefs. Not risk-free, pouff-style 'Facebook' selfie resistance.

Anti-coup demonstrators need a crack suicide squad, that what you're saying? Obviously Tiananmen worked out really well for the demonstrators in China. As much as you'd obviously enjoy seeing "Unis" or whatever the fuck you called them get shot it wouldn't make a lot of sense as a tactic. This is a military that is fine with gunning down nurses in temples, so you might just get lucky and have your bloodlust at least partly sated soon enough.

If by "placating and re-educating the natives" you mean terrorizing and beating into submission anyone who doesn't go along with Ocha-chan's aims then yes, I'm sure there is a plan and it isn't going to be subtle.

ive no doubt that small scale street demos, student type stuff, will be put down, but with boots rather than bullets. heavy duty armed dissidents will not be treated so lightly though.

as for the masses, i would think bones will be thrown before blows, could well be meaty bones at that.