Thread: Problem getting Thai visa to the USA

I apologize if this has been covered somewhere else- I have searched and read numerous posts, but I can't find anything that seems to apply to my situation. If you know of a similar post, please let me know.

Also, sorry in advance for the long post... I figure I should put as much info into this as possible in order to get the most accurate responses.

Here's the background...

I made my first trip to Thailand in 2009. I fell in love with the place, and decided I would return in 2011. I told some Thai friends here in the USA (who own a Thai restaurant) that I wanted to learn to speak some Thai before I went back. They eventually forwarded my info to their sister in BKK, who in turn "introduced" me (via email) to her friend (Wat) who teaches English at a Thai university. I worked night shift at that time, so the 12 hour time difference was great- when she was teaching I was working. We used Skype, etc. to chat, and when she would leave to teach a class her co-workers would sit at her desk and chat with me. I became friends with the whole English department. LOL There was never any flirting, etc- we just chatted and became friends. (I probably helped them with English more than I learned Thai.)

Fast forward to 2011, and Wat offered to pick me up from the airport on my return trip. Over the first few days of my trip I met with her and the many friends I had met in her English department. One thing led to another, and we soon realized that we were attracted to each other. It was very awkward for me, because I have always been a "sworn bachelor for life." There was something different about Wat, though- she is very smart, has a good job, owns a couple of properties, saves her money, and she is definitely not hunting for a husband. She's traditional in all the best ways, and atypical in all the best ways. (Keep in mind, we've been "together" for about 5 years now... there has never been any push to get married, although we have discussed that it would probably happen if one of us moved to the other's country. Never any requests for money, etc. She is fiercely independent.)

So, it is now 2016 and I have been to Thailand 5 times now. On the last 2 trips I stayed at her place. I've gone to work with her, sat in on classes, met her family, and we've traveled to other countries together (Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia...). She has not been to the USA, though. I've met her family, and I'd like her to meet mine. I'd like her to see what fall and winter is like in the midwest, because she has never seen anything like that in Thailand.

So, this is where our problem begins.

She has applied for a tourist visa 4 times now, and has been denied each time. The first 2 times she applied for a tourist visa, the third time I did the "sponsorship" paperwork, and the 4th time (about 10 days ago) was another tourist visa attempt.

In our most recent attempt, I spoke with my local congressman who sent a "letter of consideration" to the US Embassy. I hold a respectable job in my community, and I've had the same career for 22 years. I'm a very stable guy. Wat has done everything she can to show her strong connections to Thailand- she works at a government university, gets free healthcare because she works for the government, cares for her mother, she is now the head of her department, she is starting her own tutoring school on the weekends, she owns 2 properties (she lives in one, her mom lives in the other), she has raised her niece and nephew, owns a new car, etc... Lots of ties to family, property, and her career.

In the most recent visa interview, they refused to even look at the paperwork that she is required to bring. They did not even open the folder! They refused to even confirm that the letter from my congressman was received or read. When they would not look at her paperwork, she started telling them about the new documents in her packet (a letter from the Dean about her promotion, documents showing the lease for her new business, etc.). While she was telling the "interviewer" about these things, he told her to "stop talking!" They asked her about me, and she said that we are basically boyfriend/ girlfriend, although we don't refer to it that way... and they called her a liar! (She admits to a relationship, but she's a liar??? How is that a lie???)

So, I get it- they think she's going to run off and get married. I understand that, although it couldn't be further from the truth. They are making a VERY far-reaching assumption based on no proof. If they would have reviewed the documents that she was required to bring, they might have understood that. She was even planning her trip so that it would fall between teaching semesters, and she would be back in time to teach.

Of course, they give her the usual paperwork that says, "you are welcome to re-apply and submit additional paperwork that shows how your situation has changed." THAT part is INFURIATING to me! She has applied 4 times now, and what happened in that most recent interview?
-They refused to look at the documents that showed how her situation has changed.
-They told her to "stop talking" during the interview.
-They insulted her (called her a liar) for telling the truth.
-They refuse to acknowledge even the existence the letter from my congressman.

Oh, and the fee for this interview has gone up to ฿5700 (about $172.00). More than half a month's salary for many Thai people! How do they expect the average Thai person to be able to re-apply four times like she has? She is fortunate to have a good salary, but this is cost-prohibitive to a good number of Thai people.

So, at this point, I'm out of ideas. Even though we have done everything "the right way," they refuse to give her an appropriate interview! (I have spoken to my congressman about the recent results, and was told that they would gladly try to offer help if she applies again. They also followed up with the State Department, but they basically sent back a "cut and paste" response.)

All of my friends say "just marry her," but that is not what we want. I just want her to be able to visit the USA for a couple of weeks, meet my family, and do a little bit of traveling over here. I want her to see my way of life so that if we do decide to get married (many years from now), she will have an understanding of what things are like here. We both intend to be retired or very close to retirement before getting married, IF that is even a future option.

Can anyone offer a different idea for getting her over here for a couple of weeks? The only route that I have not pursued yet is getting an immigration lawyer involved, because it seems that the expense would be too much for a 2-week visit... For what an immigration lawyer would cost, I could go back to Thailand again. If we were planning on getting married, that would be different. Are there any travel agencies in Thailand that might have more success for getting her a visa rather than doing it herself?

Thanks for your time reading all of this, and thanks in advance for any input. Hopefully I've included enough details. If I haven't, I might go back later and edit this with anything that appears to be a "common question" in your responses.

Originally Posted by IndianaGentry

Oh, and the fee for this interview has gone up to ฿5700 (about $172.00). More than half a month's salary for many Thai people! How do they expect the average Thai person to be able to re-apply four times like she has? She is fortunate to have a good salary, but this is cost-prohibitive to a good number of Thai people.

Your letting her pay for that ??

Originally Posted by Conche

Your letting her pay for that ??

Yes. That's what it says, right?

As I said, she is traditional in all the best ways, and atypical in all the best ways. She has never asked for money, and she is very independent. I have offered to pay, but she refuses. She's not in it for money.

So, back to the main question- Any idea how to get her a visa for a 2-week visit to the USA???

Originally Posted by S Landreth

Couple things,....

Something about this is fishy. She sounds as if she would have been a great candidate to get a Visa (property/family/job).

If she was caught (and hasn’t told you) by the embassy misrepresenting a document in the paperwork she gave to them, they will have a problem with her.

The embassy might also know something about her you don’t. You might want to ask her (without insulting her) to show you the results of this background check,…….

Welcome To The Police Clearance Service Center Special Branch Royal Thai Police

good luck

Thanks for the suggestion!

I've seen the majority of the stuff that she has turned in, and my congressman followed up with the State Department regarding her interview- they didn't mention anything about her failing anything, but their answer about not showing enough ties to Thailand did seem like a "cut and paste" job. Hard to tell how much they really looked into it, honestly.

I'll mention that police report to her, and see what happens. I appreciate the link!

To the OP : sent you a PM. Hope it helps.

Maybe something is off, but I'll take the post at face value. I know of some ppl who were denied US visas, because their papers or circumstances were either off or insufficient. Btw, I've been to the US & went through the visa process. Asked Davis for some tips durinf that time. I went there for a conference & got a 10-yr multiple entry. I had all the correct papers & had traveled to many countries prior to the US trip. Sometimes, it depends on thw visa officer . The one who interviewed me was really thorough & asked a lot of qiestions ( to me & the girl before me). A friend of mine applied a year layer, and she was just asked 2 questions. The officer didn't even look at her docs. Both of us applied for the visa online, b4 the actual interview. Pardon the typos, frm fone

Btw, both my friend & I are Filipino citizens & have traveled extensively prior to the US trip.

The criteria "must have sufficient thais err ties to thailand" is totally subjective..

It is my experience that they know BEFORE a thai shows up for the "interview" if they're gonna get a visa or not and the interview is just a formality..

Originally Posted by S Landreth

The embassy might also know something about her you don’t. You might want to ask her (without insulting her) to show you the results of this background check,…….

Exactly what I was thinking.

Something has happened in the past that is throwing a spanner in the works.

I don't buy it. If what the OP says is true, she would have had no problem getting a visa. I say this based on 28 years in the USG, including six in Thailand.

Why was she refused? The OP doesn't say. The Embassy is required to tell the failed applicant why he/she was refused.

The story is either total BS, or has some huge holes in it.

And, the Embassy doesn't think she is running off to the US to get married. If that was the goal, an easily-obtained fiance visa would do the job.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Why was she refused? The OP doesn't say. The Embassy is required to tell the failed applicant why he/she was refused.

Indeed:

Visa records are considered confidential under U.S. law. This means that we cannot disclose any information about visa cases to third parties, including American citizen relatives or friends of applicants. Please be aware that visa applicants are informed in writing (in both Thai and English) of the reasons for the denial at the time of interview. More information about visa denials is available at the Department of State website.

Frequently Asked Questions | Bangkok, Thailand - Embassy of the United States

Sorry OP, but think you need to be asking some hard questions of your gf. She knows the reason for the refusal, and it is unlikely to be 214(b) from what you are saying.

(and the cynic in me advises you NOT to say "were you refused under 214(b)?") - see what she comes up with (and don't forget, she got the info in English and Thai - while the embassy cannot show you the document, no reason why she cannot).

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

I don't buy it. If what the OP says is true, she would have had no problem getting a visa. I say this based on 28 years in the USG, including six in Thailand.

Why was she refused? The OP doesn't say. The Embassy is required to tell the failed applicant why he/she was refused.

The story is either total BS, or has some huge holes in it.

And, the Embassy doesn't think she is running off to the US to get married. If that was the goal, an easily-obtained fiance visa would do the job.

Jesus Christ, you are a cynical bunch. I came here looking for help, and I've been accused of more crap than I've received help. I didn't write that long post for fun- I tried to give as much background as I could offer so that I would get the best answers possible.

They have not given her any detailed reasons why she has been refused, except for their few comments about me. The paper that they gave her is very general… It only states that she has not shown enough ties to her country to make them believe that she is not returning.

As I mentioned, the most recent interviewer did not even look at her paperwork. She takes photos of everything and sends them to me, so I know she is going through the process. I have seen the confirmation letters for her appointments, which has a receipt at the bottom to show how much she has paid, etc. I sent a copy of that paperwork to my congressman so that they would know what date their letter had to arrive by.

What the embassy should be doing and what they are doing are two different things. I feel like we are getting railroaded somewhere in this process. At almost $172 per 10 minute interview, it's quite a money making scam that they have going on.

Originally Posted by IndianaGentry

Wat has done everything she can to show her strong connections to Thailand- she works at a government university, gets free healthcare because she works for the government, cares for her mother, she is now the head of her department, she is starting her own tutoring school on the weekends, she owns 2 properties (she lives in one, her mom lives in the other), she has raised her niece and nephew, owns a new car, etc... Lots of ties to family, property, and her career.

In the most recent visa interview, they refused to even look at the paperwork that she is required to bring. They did not even open the folder! They refused to even confirm that the letter from my congressman was received or read. When they would not look at her paperwork, she started telling them about the new documents in her packet (a letter from the Dean about her promotion, documents showing the lease for her new business, etc.). While she was telling the "interviewer" about these things, he told her to "stop talking!" They asked her about me, and she said that we are basically boyfriend/ girlfriend, although we don't refer to it that way... and they called her a liar! (She admits to a relationship, but she's a liar??? How is that a lie???)

So, I get it- they think she's going to run off and get married. I understand that, although it couldn't be further from the truth. They are making a VERY far-reaching assumption based on no proof. If they would have reviewed the documents that she was required to bring, they might have understood that. She was even planning her trip so that it would fall between teaching semesters, and she would be back in time to teach.

Hello IndianaGentry. Just to make things a bit clearer for me to understand your girlfriend's situation, I'd like to ask you a few questions if I may.

* Did you see a copy of Wat's visa application form? (this time or any time before)
* What documents did she provide? Could you state what they are, please? (Please include any letters she also provided [for example, a letter from her employer])
* When Wat applied for a tourist visa the third time and you did the "sponsorship" paperwork, what does that mean exactly? That you wrote a letter saying you would pay for everything? Or you would take care of her? Or something else?
* Has Wat ever been married?
* Had she ever applied for a US visa before she met you?

^Good questions.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Hello IndianaGentry. Just to make things a bit clearer for me to understand your girlfriend's situation, I'd like to ask you a few questions if I may.

* Did you see a copy of Wat's visa application form? (this time or any time before)
A: There is an online application, which she submits and I do not see. However, she has asked me before about "what is the best way to answer (insert question)" while filling it out. While in BKK, I have reviewed copies of the documents that she has taken with her to the interviews, looking for ways to improve her application. I have also seen the generic, 1-page form that they hand out when she gets denied.

* What documents did she provide? Could you state what they are, please? (Please include any letters she also provided [for example, a letter from her employer])
A: She has taken deeds/ titles to the 2 properties she owns, bank records, purchase info on her new car (now 2 years old), a letter from the Dean at her university, a word document we prepared with info on her family (idea copied from a friend who got a visa), photos of her with the students she tutors on the weekends, etc. The pile has grown each time.

* When Wat applied for a tourist visa the third time and you did the "sponsorship" paperwork, what does that mean exactly? That you wrote a letter saying you would pay for everything? Or you would take care of her? Or something else?
A: More or less, yes. I found a site called "www.path2usa.com", which provided an outline and sample documents to use. Since this was the third application, we decided to try something new and go with this. I had to send an "invitation" letter, my tax forms, bank info, letter from my bank verifying my accounts, letter from my H.R. confirming my employment, dates for her visit, etc... She presented that with her documents.

* Has Wat ever been married?
A: No.

* Had she ever applied for a US visa before she met you?
A: No.

A problem arises with successive visa refusals in that the next visa officer is almost certain to maintain refusal lest they appear lax in their commitment to the work, a sort of peer group pressure to conform to a pattern.

The tactical error was the initial two applications which were seemingly made without support by the Amercian sponsor. Had he weighed in from the outset with sworn declarations, proof of relationship, corroborating evidence of ties that would act as an incentive to return but endorsed by the sponsor etc then she may well have got the visa at the first attempt.
I would find a damn good immigration lawyer to draft a submission addressing all the issues and compile a further application.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

I would find a damn good immigration lawyer to draft a submission addressing all the issues and compile a further application.

That is pretty much the only thing I have not done yet. I need to look into the cost, and see how much it will cost to at least get a consultation. Any time the word "lawyer" comes into a situation, dollar signs start running through my mind. I'm wondering if the cost of a lawyer is going to be worth a short 2-week visit? She has to travel in between semesters at the university, so travel plans get pretty limited for us.

Has anyone used an immigration lawyer? Does anyone know what an approximate cost is?

Originally Posted by katie23

To the OP : sent you a PM. Hope it helps.

Got it- thank you!!!

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

A problem arises with successive visa refusals in that the next visa officer is almost certain to maintain refusal lest they appear lax in their commitment to the work, a sort of peer group pressure to conform to a pattern.

Sounds the case here. I knew a good many embassy folks. In general a bunch with the power and attitude to make things difficult for Thais seeking visas. A young single woman is by definition suspect and likely to be refused especially in your case where she has romantic ties with you. Suspicion being she may traveling to US under a tourist visa to get marry you while there.

Originally Posted by IndianaGentry

Has anyone used an immigration lawyer? Does anyone know what an approximate cost is?

I have not as I knew many US embassy staff and never had a problem. A Brit friend of mine always used a service with good result. He told me it cost him about 60k baht. However may be too late given she has been refused 4 times.

The company he used. Give them a call. Good luck.

TSL & Associates' Wireless Rd. office is across the street from the United States Embassy, and in close proximity to all of the other major embassies in Bangkok Thailand.

Wireless Rd. Branch : 130-132 Sindhorn Building, Tower 1, 2nd Floor, Wireless Rd. Lumpini, Patumwan Bangkok 10330

TSL Thailand | Immigration, Visa, Legal Services | Thai Visa, US Visa, UK Visa, Australia Visa

As a rule of thumb, you should not pay more than around 35,000-40,000 baht for a decent lawyer and make sure he is accredited with a verifiable track record - a lot of phoney shysters here in Thailand.

Thank you for the recommendations! I'll pass this along...

Originally Posted by IndianaGentry

Originally Posted by Neverna

Hello IndianaGentry. Just to make things a bit clearer for me to understand your girlfriend's situation, I'd like to ask you a few questions if I may.

* Did you see a copy of Wat's visa application form? (this time or any time before)
A: There is an online application, which she submits and I do not see. However, she has asked me before about "what is the best way to answer (insert question)" while filling it out. While in BKK, I have reviewed copies of the documents that she has taken with her to the interviews, looking for ways to improve her application. I have also seen the generic, 1-page form that they hand out when she gets denied.

* What documents did she provide? Could you state what they are, please? (Please include any letters she also provided [for example, a letter from her employer])
A: She has taken deeds/ titles to the 2 properties she owns, bank records, purchase info on her new car (now 2 years old), a letter from the Dean at her university, a word document we prepared with info on her family (idea copied from a friend who got a visa), photos of her with the students she tutors on the weekends, etc. The pile has grown each time.

* When Wat applied for a tourist visa the third time and you did the "sponsorship" paperwork, what does that mean exactly? That you wrote a letter saying you would pay for everything? Or you would take care of her? Or something else?
A: More or less, yes. I found a site called "www.path2usa.com", which provided an outline and sample documents to use. Since this was the third application, we decided to try something new and go with this. I had to send an "invitation" letter, my tax forms, bank info, letter from my bank verifying my accounts, letter from my H.R. confirming my employment, dates for her visit, etc... She presented that with her documents.

* Has Wat ever been married?
A: No.

* Had she ever applied for a US visa before she met you?
A: No.

Thanks for your reply. You seem to have covered all the bases so I can only conclude that there's something within application form itself that the visa people don't like, but it does seem pointless inviting Wat to an interview and refusing to even look at her documents.

By the way, did you or Wat buy a return flight ticket for her for specific dates? (I'm not sure if that is expected or recommended by US immigration folks but it helps show a bit of commitment for a return to Thailand).

And one final question (and I apologise if you find it inappropriate - you don't need to answer it), is there a big age difference between the two of you?

Originally Posted by Neverna

Thanks for your reply. You seem to have covered all the bases so I can only conclude that there's something within application form itself that the visa people don't like, but it does seem pointless inviting Wat to an interview and refusing to even look at her documents.

By the way, did you or Wat buy a return flight ticket for her for specific dates? (I'm not sure if that is expected or recommended by US immigration folks but it helps show a bit of commitment for a return to Thailand).

And one final question (and I apologise if you find it inappropriate - you don't need to answer it), is there a big age difference between the two of you?

We had not bought tickets at all. When she found out the end date for the summer classes and the beginning date for the next semester, we targeted that 2-week period as her chance to fly here. We DID have printouts of the available flights, though.

There is only a 2 year age difference- we're both in our mid-40's. It definitely doesn't look like a bargirl situation when we are together. (In fact, when we see 60 year old guys walking around with 20 year old girls, we often point it out and jokingly say, "Look- true love!" LOL)

Someone said earlier that the visa officers may just be following what the last officer did, which is my biggest fear. If they are doing that, then it seems there is basically zero chance of getting approved. It's just so frustrating...

Thanks again to those who have offered your suggestions. It is greatly appreciated!

If she actually has all the equity she claims, she probably would have been far better off never mentioning the guy, and just saying she wanted to go tour around for a week or two, Probably wouldn't have had a problem.

Originally Posted by IndianaGentry

Someone said earlier that the visa officers may just be following what the last officer did, which is my biggest fear. If they are doing that, then it seems there is basically zero chance of getting approved. It's just so frustrating...

If the content of all the documents and letters is the same, it's pointless trying again because whatever it is they don't like will still be there.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

If she actually has all the equity she claims, she probably would have been far better off never mentioning the guy, and just saying she wanted to go tour around for a week or two, Probably wouldn't have had a problem.

Possibly. And that gets me to thinking ...

Originally Posted by IndianaGentry

She has applied for a tourist visa 4 times now, and has been denied each time. The first 2 times she applied for a tourist visa, the third time I did the "sponsorship" paperwork, and the 4th time (about 10 days ago) was another tourist visa attempt.

In the most recent visa interview, ....

... While she was telling the "interviewer" about these things, he told her to "stop talking!" They asked her about me, and she said that we are basically boyfriend/ girlfriend, although we don't refer to it that way... and they called her a liar! (She admits to a relationship, but she's a liar??? How is that a lie???)

When Wat first applied for a visa to the US, did she mention you at all? And was she ever asked something along the lines of, "Do you have any friends or relatives in the USA?" And if she was asked that, how did she reply? (And the same for the other 3 times she applied.) Has she always mentioned you as being a boyfriend?

Have there ever been any 'slight' changes to how she has described her situation or yours?