Thread: The Libyan Crisis

THE RAF is spending £40,000 a night for crew to stay at four-star hotels near the Italian airbase used to launch bombing missions over Libya.

Around 700 pilots and ground staff have been put up around the town of Gioia del Colle in hotels which are block-booked until September.

Read more: 'No question' of allied ground invasion of Libya, says David Cameron | Mail Online


In my time, we stayed at 5 star hotels.....fucking disgrace being stuck in a 4...

^ We must be doing something right then.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

N. Korea slams armed attacks on 'sovereign state' in Middle East

This is the same N.Korea who banned their own citizens from returning home from the region

it's all becoming a big farce, soon it will make the Iraq invasion like a sensible and well thought out war in comparison

Once more, the French are putting the Americans and their allies in the shit, so it's not all bad

Originally Posted by FarangRed

Now all of them complaining about the use of cluster bombs, why you not get on Thailand's case using them against the poor Cambodians they have evidence also sorry cannot the mericanos supplied them

There were French actually, but nice try.

Updated: Which cluster munitions did the Army use

TH

Exactly my thoughts Panda, the Americans have lost the the plot.

^
Not so sure they've lost the plot - that would be a stretch too far. But are they able to manage the plot is more the question. On that I'm much less certain.

Originally Posted by Panda

All USA can do ultimately to oust these competitors is to flex its military muscles

And kill a few unarmed civilians along the way. Nothing new in that MO for the merkins.

Col Gaddafi refuses calls for ceasefire - Telegraph

Col Gaddafi refuses calls for ceasefire

Col Muammar Gaddafi is refusing United Nations calls for a ceasefire to allow aid into the beleaguered city of Misurata according to a senior envoy.


A baby hit by shrapnel in Misurata Photo: GETTY


By Ben Farmer, Benghazi
4:44PM BST 18 Apr 2011

Baroness Amos, the UN’s head of humanitarian relief, said she had personally asked ministers in Tripoli to end fighting so supplies could enter and trapped civilians could leave.

Misurata has been cut off and shelled for two months and rebel leaders told the Daily Telegraph aid ships were refusing to enter while the port was being hit by Col Gaddafi’s artillery.

Baroness Amos said: “We got no guarantees with respect to my call for an overall cessation of hostilities to allow people to move and allow people to deliver supplies.” The former Labour minister said her delegation had met the Libyan prime minister, foreign minister and health minister in Tripoli on Sunday for talks.

They had agreed to open a UN humanitarian office in the Libyan capital and said an assessment team could travel to Misurata to judge the aid needed.

“Different parts of the city are controlled by different people and we have very little sense of what’s going on,” she said.

At least 4,000 refugees, who are mainly African migrant labourers, were still waiting to leave the town.

However, it was unclear if the United Nations team could enter while the town was engulfed in fighting which doctors estimate has killed at least 600 and left 3,000 wounded.

Baroness Amos said: “We will try to carry out that needs assessment as quickly as possible, but you will know that the security situation is such that that may be difficult to do.” Her comments seemed at odds with the Gaddafi regime’s declaration on Sunday that it was ready to allow humanitarian assistance to reach the city of 500,000.

The port district of Ghasr Ahmad has been under barrage from loyalist Grad rockets in recent days killing dozens of civilians and damaging port buildings and ships according to reports.

The city’s only lifeline is a trickle of fishing boats carrying supplies and arms across the Gulf of Sirte from Benghazi and occasional international aid ships sailing from Turkey, Malta and Qatar.

Dr Suleiman Fortia, Misurata’s representative on the rebels’ national council, said: “The harbour is under shelling which is frightening the humanitarian vessels.

“They come near to the port and then they find the situation is not safe so they go away until it’s suitable.” Last week, the Daily Telegraph saw Misurata’s defenders were well-organised and holding their ground, but short of medical supplies. Power was rationed and food stocks were also dwindling they said.

I swear some Aussie "journalist" live on Sky was talking about Misrata and said some young lad only had time to grab his Playstation before he had to leave.

What a fucking evil bastard that Gadaffi is depriving those rebels of necessities.

You can't make it up.

And the rebels have already started setting up their own central bank (with emphasis on the words "their own").

I'm so glad I read Orwell as a child.

Originally Posted by FarangRed

because ‘unbelievable crimes’ were being committed

Originally Posted by FarangRed

Details also emerged yesterday of gang rape being used by Gaddafi’s soldiers, many of them African mercenaries supplied with Viagra by the Libyan leader’s officials.

typical propoganda

viagra!! why would they need that?

Originally Posted by FarangRed

Exactly my thoughts Panda, the Americans have lost the the plot.

they did whinge about the cluster bobms that were apparently being used, although who knows the truth of that

The US and Libya are BOTH not signatories to the banning of those weapons

As long as America hates Iran as much as the rest of us, I'm their #1 fan.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

it's all becoming a big farce, soon it will make the Iraq invasion like a sensible and well thought out war in comparison

Once more, the French are putting the Americans and their allies in the shit, so it's not all bad

France is screwing the pooch as predicted. You aint seen ugly yet, reminds me of three monkeys trying to fok a football.

Originally Posted by DrAndy

what do you think the CIA is for? just gathering information? grow up

The do produce a very useful facts book. It even mentions the taxi scams at Swampy. Those CIA guys are on the ball.. Maybe the CIA got scammed at swampy and they put it in the book so MI6 and all those other hell raisers would use a meter taxi.......

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Originally Posted by FarangRed

Details also emerged yesterday of gang rape being used by Gaddafi’s soldiers, many of them African mercenaries supplied with Viagra by the Libyan leader’s officials.

typical propoganda

viagra!! why would they need that?

This CIA Mission and its propoganda is brought to you by VIAGRA. Check us out atwww.viagra.com

Disclaimer: If you have a heart condition check with your doctor first.

Originally Posted by koman

Originally Posted by DrAndy

what do you think the CIA is for? just gathering information? grow up

The do produce a very useful facts book. It even mentions the taxi scams at Swampy. Those CIA guys are on the ball.. Maybe the CIA got scammed at swampy and they put it in the book so MI6 and all those other hell raisers would use a meter taxi.......

Better still is the US Army Intelligence playbook for working with 'friendly' governments to help them overcome internal insurrections and insurgencies.

Here's a summary - leaked by Wikileaks a few years ago. You'll see that what Thailand has been doing to counter the Reds is almost a chapter-by-chapter exectution of the activities indicated in this manual.

Summary:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20126.htm

Full leaked manual is now hard to find - though I've seen it before - maybe someone else who downloaded can add it. It's more than 200 pages.

This is NOT to be confused with the 2009 US Counterinsurgency Guide published to indeed confuse and counter the above leaked manual.

Video: Libya British Group Sees 'No Evidence' Of Gaddafi Forces Using Violence In Western Libya | World News | Sky News

No Evidence Of Gaddafi Violence, Say Britons

1:58am UK, Tuesday April 19, 2011
Tom Rayner, in Tripoli

The Libyan government has renewed its call for independent fact-finding experts to come to the country to assess allegations of violence against civilians.

Speaking to Sky News, deputy foreign minister Khalid Kaim said: "We are asking for professional fact-finding missions.

"We asked the British government for this in the first week of the conflict but never received a reply. When we have claim and counter-claim, this is unacceptable."

It comes as the United Nations outlines plans for a humanitarian team to be sent to the besieged city of Misratah.

It also follows the surprise finding of a British campaign group who claimed they had seen ‘no evidence’ that Colonel Gaddafi’s forces had attacked, bombed or killed any civilians in western Libya, despite widespread condemnation of the regime from organisations such as the UN, the African Court of Human Rights and the International Criminal Court.


The group spent a week in Tripoli and other towns

The mission, from British Civilians For Peace in Libya, led by Dave Roberts, of the Socialist Labour Party, spent a week touring Tripoli and a number of other towns in the west of Libya.

The 13-person group comprised a number of humanitarian campaigners involved in projects in Ramallah and Gaza, as well as film-makers, bloggers and political activists.

They travelled to Libya last week after forming a few days earlier. It is unclear who funded their visit.

In their interim findings the campaign group claimed they had been able to "corroborate civilian casualties and fatalities due to Nato bombing" but "could find no evidence that three areas of Tripoli cited in UN resolution 1973 had been subjected to government forces bombardment".

Although Mr Roberts acknowledged the group’s visit had been facilitated and overseen by minders from the Libyan Government and a Libyan non-governmental organisation (NGO), he claimed they had been able to speak freely to organisations and individuals in many towns in western Libya, although not those which have seen the most significant fighting in recent weeks such as Misratah, or the towns of Yafran, Zintan and Nalut in the Nafusa mountain range.

Among the towns the campaign group visited were Zawiyah, Bin Walid, Tajoura, Fashloom and Suk Jooma.

The group’s interim report also criticised the media’s coverage of events in Libya, saying: "We are concerned that western media outlets are failing in their duty to report on the conflict truthfully."

Speaking at the news conference in Tripoli Mr Roberts referred to the restrictions that had been put on journalists, saying "one of the reasons you are being locked up is because your independence is being questioned".


British Civilians For Peace in Libya

• DELEGATION MEMBERS:
  David Roberts
  Dr Anour Izzadine
  Nidaa Sabbagh
  Manzur Sadaq
  Baboo Zanghar
  Ishmahil Blagrove
  Majed Sabbagh
  Richard Mejeh
  Mohamed Elhaddad
  Martin Longhurst
  Agab Eldoor Khamis
  Mohielddin Zakaria
  Sukant Chandan

However, when Sky’s chief correspondent Stuart Ramsay put to the delegates that Sky News had recorded footage in Zawiyah which showed civilians and children being severely injured during government bombardment, it was unclear whether the campaigners had seen the report, or factored in reports like it in their conclusions.

Indeed, they admitted that they had not conducted any research into wider media reporting or into video posted online on social media networks by those who claim they witnessed the onslaughts.

Mr Roberts acknowledged that he and his fellow delegates were "not experts", adding: "We are deficient but we’re the only people doing this… there is a need for an independent international fact-finding intervention by a professional, credible and acceptable organisation."

When asked by journalists whether they had sought access to detainees in Libyan prisons, Mr Roberts said they had not but would take the suggestion on board.

Sources in Tripoli who oppose the Gaddafi government have told Sky News they believe several thousand people in the city have been arrested and continue to be detained on suspicion of holding anti-regime views.

In New York, a UN spokesman reiterated the importance of allowing humanitarian missions to access the country.

"The Libyan government said that it would ensure unimpeded access through the Tunisian border into Libya up to Tripoli and said it would ensure safe passage for humanitarian workers to enter areas where the government of Libya is in control," he said.

BBC News - France 'should send in commandos to Libya'

18 April 2011 Last updated at 21:23 GMT

France 'should send in commandos to Libya'


Rebel fighters say they have made gains in Misrata

French commandos should be deployed on the ground in Libya to help guide air strikes, a senior French official says.

Axel Poniatowski, chairman of France's foreign affairs committee, warned the Nato campaign could become bogged down unless allies put boots on the ground.

The UN resolution authorising force to protect civilians in Libya forbids a "force of occupation" on Libyan soil.

Meanwhile, a ship has evacuated nearly 1,000 foreign workers and wounded Libyans from the city of Misrata.

The Ionian Spirit left the besieged city on Monday for the rebel stronghold of Benghazi in eastern Libya.

Mr Poniatowski's statement came as rebel forces said they had made ground in Misrata in the west, but pro-Gaddafi forces continued to press the rebel-held town of Ajdabiya in the east.

"The exclusive use of air power, as imposed on us by UN Security Council resolution 1973, has proved its limitations in the face of targets that are mobile and hard to track," Mr Poniatowski said.

He said Nato pilots often found it hard to differentiate between pro-Gaddafi forces and the rebels from the air.

"Without information from the ground, coalition planes are flying blind and increasing the risk of friendly fire incidents," he said.

Rebel convoys have been mistakenly bombed by Nato planes on at least two occasions.



Mr Pontiakowksi argued that special forces could have a limited mission to guide allied air strikes and select ground targets without breaking the "spirit" of the UN resolution.

Meanwhile, the International Organisation for Migration (IOM) said on Monday that thousands more people in Misrata were waiting to be rescued from what it described as an increasingly perilous situation.

Pro-Gaddafi forces have been pounding the city for days and hundreds of civilians are thought to have been killed.

"We wanted to be able to take more people out but it was not possible," said Jeremy Haslam, who led the IOM rescue mission.

"Although the exchange of fire subsided while we were boarding... we had a very limited time to get the migrants and Libyans on board the ship and then leave."

The UK has pledged to pay for the evacuation of 5,000 people from Misrata.

The UN's emergency relief co-ordinator, Valerie Amos, said the Libyan government had assured her that the UN could establish a humanitarian presence in the country.

Baroness Amos called for a ceasefire to allow this to happen.

A rebel spokesman in Misrata told Reuters they had "made progress" in the city and were "controlling some areas surrounding Tripoli Street".

However, he said rebel fighters were facing snipers and troops armed with rocket-propelled grenades.

"It is clear Gaddafi wants to wipe out Misrata. Nato's inaction is helping him carry out this plan. Are they waiting for a massacre to realise that they need to change tactics?" he said.

Libyan state news agency Jana said that Nato air strikes destroyed the main telecommunications tower in the city of Sirte on Monday.

The report said "the bombardment of the colonial and crusader aggressors" also hit two other telecommunications stations in the city.

There has been no independent confirmation of the report and no word from Nato.

Despite last month's UN resolution authorising air strikes to protect civilians in Libya, rebels have been unable to retain territory during fighting along the coastal towns of eastern Libya.

Col Gaddafi is defying international pressure to step down despite the revolt against his 41-year rule that began in Benghazi in February.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

chairman of France's foreign affairs committee, warned the Nato campaign could become bogged down unless allies put boots on the ground.

hilarious,