Health Care Passes

**Boon Mee** · 31-07-2011, 07:47 AM

The Wonders Of Socialized Medicine:

As America heads down the path of government control over medical spending and treatment, it is worth looking across "the Pond" at Great Britain. How's socialized medicine working out over there after several decades? Terrific you say?

Health service trusts are "imposing pain and inconvenience" by making patients wait longer than necessary, in some cases as long as four months, the study found.
Executives believe the delays mean some people will remove themselves from lists "either by dying or by paying for their own treatment" claims the report, by an independent watchdog that advises the NHS.
The Co-operation and Competition Panel says the tactic is one of a number used by managers that "excessively constrain" patients' rights to choose where to be operated upon, and damage hospitals' ability to compete for planned surgery.
It claims unfair practices are "endemic" in some areas of England and pose a "serious risk" to the Government's drive to open up the health service to competition.

Well, the patients involved were probably a bunch of hypochondriacs. And certainly their lives and well-being weren't nearly as important as saving the government a few pounds. Anyway, the politicians know best. So why should anyone complain?

Just like in America in coming years, eh?

NHS delays operations 'as it waits for patients to die or go private' - Telegraph

**sabang** · 31-07-2011, 08:02 AM

They pay around 40% as much as you do for universal coverage- and live longer too.
They complain about having to wait for an operation, but in the US health care causes over 50% of private bankruptcies.
If you are going to twist that as an argument against Socialism, long live Karl Marx.

**misskit** · 31-07-2011, 08:12 AM

Japan has socialized medicine. They live much longer than Americans and no one goes broke over their medical bills.

Their government even pays for medical treatment outside of the country for Japanese residents.

**Boon Mee** · 31-07-2011, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

They pay around 40% as much as you do for universal coverage- and live longer too.
They complain about having to wait for an operation, but in the US health care causes over 50% of private bankruptcies.
If you are going to twist that as an argument against Socialism, long live Karl Marx.

Well, as they say in Thai: Tham Jai Khun. Up to you if you're so ignorant to not take out health insurance on your own or, at least, get a job and get on your employer's health plan. I, for one, and along with a lot of other Americans do not wish to pay for your health care beyond what Medicare Tax is taken out of my paycheck.

**misskit** · 31-07-2011, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Up to you if you're so ignorant to not take out health insurance on your own or, at least, get a job and get on your employer's health plan

Wake up. Those kinds of jobs are rare now. Major employers do their best NOT to pay employees heath coverage. They employ as many part time employees as they can so they don't have to pay.

Wages are now so low that few can afford to buy their own health insurance.

At least with the new health care plan, someone can get affordable coverage who was in the past a high risk and forced to go on Medicaid.

American is not the same as before. I was there myself a couple of years ago and looked for employment. There was not a job out there that paid even 1/2 of what I made before I left the States. People are struggling on McJobs and Walmart pay with no benefits.

Never did I think I would live to see the day when Americans were so selfish and blind to the hardships of their own countrymen.

**Boon Mee** · 31-07-2011, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by misskit

Never did I think I would live to see the day when Americans were so selfish and blind to the hardships of their own countrymen.

To quote your own Lady Thatcher: "Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money"

**misskit** · 31-07-2011, 08:45 AM

^ Where are all these JOBS you think people can get???

**misskit** · 31-07-2011, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

To quote your own Lady Thatcher: "Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money"

What is this OWN Lady Thatcher stuff? I am from Georgia, USA.

**Boon Mee** · 31-07-2011, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by misskit

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

To quote your own Lady Thatcher: "Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money"

What is this OWN Lady Thatcher stuff? I am from Georgia, USA.

Apologies. There are so many Brits aboard here...

**Boon Mee** · 31-07-2011, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by misskit

^ Where are all these JOBS you think people can get???

Well, even Wal Mart is giving their part-time people a 'health benefit program' and even if you are a student, good common sense commands a sacrifice in worldly goods (less booze, pizza, movie tickets etc) and contribute to your own health plan.

**misskit** · 31-07-2011, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

contribute to your own health plan

Let's find out what Walmart pay is in proportion to the health plan contribution. OK? Let us find out how much pay a Walmart employee has to buy booze and movie tickets. Challenge.

**misskit** · 31-07-2011, 09:15 AM

Average Walmart Associate pay $8.43 per hour per glassdoor.com. That is $337 per week if you are lucky enough to work full time.

How do you think a person making those wages can pay for rent? You think they have ANY income to pay for health insurance, movie tickets, or booze?

Please wake up to the realities of the USA in 2011. You really have your head in the sand!

Not one bit of info can I find on how much the employee contribution is for health insurance.

**sabang** · 31-07-2011, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

I, for one, and along with a lot of other Americans do not wish to pay for your health care beyond what Medicare Tax is taken out of my paycheck.

Preferring, instead, to pay well over double for your own. Now thats some thinking.

**misskit** · 31-07-2011, 09:51 AM

^Yes. Americans are getting gouged. Not from poor people on Medicaid but from the health industry overcharging to provide those services.

**misskit** · 31-07-2011, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

I, for one, and along with a lot of other Americans do not wish to pay for your health care beyond what Medicare Tax is taken out of my paycheck.

Boon Mee, don't you live in Thailand? Why are you paying taxes in the USA?

**Pound Hound** · 31-07-2011, 10:55 AM

walmart.... is not a good example.... American companies are finding everyway possible to get out of provideing healthcare... Besides employer based healthcare... it was that commie liberal Richard Nixon's idea that was going to fix healthcare...

walmart employees are sucking from the government teet at a higher rate than any other "employed" americans... One of the wealthiest corporations in the world... with its owners being some of the wealthiest people in the world.... In a good world those ungrateful kids of Sam should be ashamed of themselves... give up an an extra billion this year for your employees? must be tough being a Walton kid!

I am sure these three have seen some rough times....

Robby! 25 billion

Jimmy - 25 billion

Alice - 25 billion

from wikipedia.....
Health insurance

As of October 2005, Walmart's health insurance covered 44% or approximately 572,000 of its 1.6 million U.S. workers.[55] In comparison, Walmart rival and wholesaler Costco insures approximately 96% of its eligible workers, although Costco has been criticized by investors for its high labor costs.[citation needed] Walmart spends an average of $3,500 per employee for health care, 27% less than the retail-industry average of $4,800.[56] When asked why so many Walmart workers choose to enroll in state health care plans instead of Walmart's own plan, Walmart CEO Lee Scott acknowledged that some states' benefits may be more generous than Walmart's own plan: "In some of our states, the public program may actually be a better value - with relatively high income limits to qualify, and low premiums."[57] Critics of Walmart argue in Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price that employees are paid so little they cannot afford health insurance.
According to a September 2002 survey by the state of Georgia, one in four children of Walmart employees were enrolled in PeachCare for Kids, the state's health-insurance program for uninsured children, compared to the state's second-biggest employer, Publix, which had one child in the program for every 22 employees.[58] A December 2004 nationwide survey commissioned by Walmart showed that the use of public-assistance health-care programs by children of Walmart workers was at a similar rate to other retailers' employees, and at rates similar to the U.S. population as a whole.[59]
On October 26, 2005, a Walmart internal memo sent to the firm's Board of Directors advised trimming over $1 billion in health care expenses by 2011 through measures such as attracting a younger, implicitly healthier work force by offering education benefits.[60] The memo also suggested giving sedentary Walmart staffers, such as cashiers, more physically demanding tasks, such as "cart-gathering," and eliminating full-time positions in favor of hiring part-time employees who would be ineligible for the more expensive health insurance and several policy proposals which may violate the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.[60] The memo also accused Walmart's lower paid employees of abusing emergency room visits, "possibly due to their prior experience with programs such as Medicaid," whereas such visits may actually be due to the reduced ability of uninsured or underinsured people to make timely appointments to see a regular physician.[60] Critics point to this internal memo as evidence that Walmart purports to be generous with its employee benefits, while in reality the company is working to cut such benefits by reducing the number of full-time and long-term employees and discouraging supposedly unhealthy people from working at Walmart.
On January 12, 2006, the Maryland legislature enacted a law requiring that all corporations with more than 10,000 employees in the state spend at least eight percent of their payroll on employee benefits, or pay into a state fund for the uninsured.[61] Walmart, with about 17,000 employees in Maryland, was the only known company to not meet this requirement before the bill passed. On July 7, 2006, the Maryland law was overturned in federal court by a U.S. District judge who held that a federal law, the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA), preempted the Maryland law. In his opinion, the judge said that the law would "hurt Walmart by imposing the administrative burden of tracking benefits in Maryland differently than in other states."[62] Similar legislation in Wisconsin days later was defeated in the state legislature.
On April 17, 2006, Walmart announced it was making a health care plan available to part-time workers after one year of service, instead of the prior two-year requirement.[63] One criticism of the new plan is that it provides benefit only after a $1,000 deductible is paid ($3,000 for a family). These deductibles may financially be out of reach for eligible part-time workers. Walmart estimates this change can add 150,000 workers to health coverage plans, if all who are eligible take part. By January 2007, the number of workers enrolled in the company's health care plans increased by 8%, which Walmart attributed to the introduction of less expensive insurance policies.[64] However, even with this increase, less than half of Walmart's employees, or 47.4%, received health insurance through the company, with 10%, or 130,000, receiving no coverage at all.[64]
In October 2001, a class action sexual discrimination lawsuit, Mauldin v. Walmart Stores, Inc., was filed against Walmart challenging the company's denial of health insurance coverage for prescription contraceptives. The lawsuit was certified for class action status, but later dropped by the plaintiffs in 2006 once Walmart agreed to change its health insurance policies.[65]
In March 2008, Walmart sued a former Walmart employee, Deborah Shank, to recover the money it spent for her health care after she was brain-damaged, restricted to a wheelchair, and nursing home-bound after her minivan was hit by a truck. Walmart sued the former employee for $470,000 after she received a settlement from the accident, citing that company policy forbids employees from receiving coverage if they also win a settlement in a lawsuit.[66] After a wave of bad publicity, Walmart dropped its suit.[67]
New, full-time Walmart associates must work at least six months before being eligible to purchase the company's primary health insurance.

**misskit** · 31-07-2011, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Pound Hound

give up an an extra billion this year for your employees?

It's every blood-sucker for himself these days. No shame in the new breed of the wealthy.

What galls me also is the number of people living large on stock dividends, not working, and complaining about the paltry amount of tax they have to pay. They don't create jobs, make money on the backs of others who are paid so little and think they somehow deserve every dime they get.

The USA today, it's all about greed. No empathy.

**misskit** · 02-08-2011, 08:14 AM

What? No soundbite comeback? Looks like someone bailed out of the conversation.

Please discuss health care options for low wage people.

**Boon Mee** · 02-08-2011, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by misskit

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

I, for one, and along with a lot of other Americans do not wish to pay for your health care beyond what Medicare Tax is taken out of my paycheck.

Boon Mee, don't you live in Thailand? Why are you paying taxes in the USA?

Unfortunately, so long as one holds an US Passport, they will, 'till the day they die, pay US Tax. I am beholden to the Gestapo (IRS) to report my entire 'worldwide' income.

**misskit** · 02-08-2011, 08:25 AM

^ Report is different than pay. You must make quite a bit of money to owe taxes working outside of the states.

**misskit** · 02-08-2011, 08:30 AM

Let's hear it. What is your shocking tax bill that you are paying for all of those undeserving Medicare moochers that waste all of their $8.43 per hour on friviolity.?

**Boon Mee** · 02-08-2011, 09:22 AM

^&^^
My dear old Mum always told me never reveal your financial details. The Missus knows but being a native Thai, she basically doesn't give two hoots.

The main point in this discussion is why should hard-working 'Merkins give up their income to support welfare cheats who won't work but expect free health care. As been mentioned before, I do not have the answer to the 'Health Care Problem' other than the items already discussed i.e. get an education, get a job (anyone can work if they truly want to) and don't be a burden on society. If one comes down with an illness such as pancreatic cancer for example that will cause bankruptcy, it's probably too late anyhow. But, the examples of waiting months for 'normal' surgical procedures in Canada, UK etc are indicative of a failed model as well.

**misskit** · 02-08-2011, 10:00 AM

Right. I know you are being honest. A nice way to say you don't pay any taxes.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The main point in this discussion is why should hard-working 'Merkins give up their income to support welfare cheats who won't work but expect free health care.

My point is there are plenty of hard working Americans who cannot afford health care and have no other choice but to go on Medicaid or go bankrupt.

Welfare cheats are a whole different story and should be addressed on it's own instead of labeling underemployed Americans as such.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

I do not have the answer to the 'Health Care Problem' other than the items already discussed i.e. get an education, get a job (anyone can work if they truly want to) and don't be a burden on society.

Then you have no answer at all because the solutions you propose are nearly impossible at this point. There are NO JOBS. Why don't you understand? If this was even ten years ago, I would agree with you. But not now.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

If one comes down with an illness such as pancreatic cancer for example that will cause bankruptcy, it's probably too late anyhow

Too late for what? Boon Mee, I know you are a decent man, even if I don't agree with you. But don't you think that denying someone with cancer palliative treatment because it is too late is a bit callus?

Health care costs are just too high in America. You and I know that we can get very good treatment right here in Thailand for a fraction of the costs. Japan too for that matter where the cost of living there is higher than the States.

The heath care industry needs to be reigned in. Yes, REGULATED.

**barbaro** · 02-08-2011, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by misskit

Let's hear it. What is your shocking tax bill that you are paying for all of those undeserving Medicare moochers that waste all of their $8.43 per hour on friviolity.?

misskit,

Medicare is a ticking time bomb. There are 4 parts to Medicare: A-B-C-D.

Medicare is a large part of the $60 Trillion the US government has promised to pay out in the coming decades.

Now, look at what is happening now. Do you think....the US government will have $60 Trillion dollars to pay for SS and Medicare?

**misskit** · 02-08-2011, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by barbaro

Medicare is a ticking time bomb

Yes it is. Reform it. Hell, get rid of it. Just have some humane health care system in place.

What is our other option? Let people die because they have no money like in a third world country?

I am just pointing out that people have no other choice than to turn to Medicaid now. People who it humiliates to even have to do it.

As I mentioned above, the new health care law provides insurance for people who were high risk and couldn't get insurance. They were forced to go on Medicare before but don't have to now. So isn't doesn't that make the new law a good thing?

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