Thread: Prisoner abuse not exclusive to US soldiers..

It seems that prisoner abuse isn't just exclusive to 'uncultured' US jar heads is it??

*note* on a predominantly British forum why is it that there is no "British domestic issues" forum? I know it would be boring as hell, but still??




Video allegedly shows British soldier abusing Iraqis

• Story Highlights
• Video shows Cpl. Donald Payne swearing at bound prisoners in "stress positions"
• "Every possible lesson," will be learned, said Mark Fenwick, inquiry spokesman
• Inquiry, now on summer break, is scheduled to resume September 16

LONDON, England (CNN) -- As British authorities prepare to resume an inquiry into a hotel clerk's death in Basra while held by British soldiers in 2003, a video has emerged allegedly showing a British soldier abusing Iraqi prisoners.
The video shows Cpl. Donald Payne, formerly of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment, swearing and yelling at bound and hooded Iraqi prisoners as he orders them to stay in "stress positions" -- in this case, holding themselves in seated positions by leaning their backs against a wall while stretching out their arms, wrists bound with white plastic cuffs.
As one man after another slumps to the floor, Payne jerks them back to the position and yells at them.
"Get up! Get up! Get up!" he yells at one man as groans can be heard.
The 60-second video was released July 13 as evidence in the inquiry, but apparently went unpublicized until Monday. It was not clear whether the clerk, Baha Musa, 26, was among the prisoners.
Musa died in the custody of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment in Basra, southern Iraq, in September 2003.
An inquiry into his death and the British Army's use of the "conditioning techniques" used to prepare prisoners for interrogation got under way last month.
The British government banned the use of such techniques in 1972.
The inquiry, now on summer break, is set to resume September 16.
"The inquiry will independently identify what went wrong, will help us to understand how and why Mr. Musa died, and ensure that every possible lesson from this incident is learnt," said Mark Fenwick, a spokesman for the inquiry.
Payne became the first member of the British Armed Forces to admit a war crime when he pleaded guilty to inhumanely treating civilians at a court martial in September 2006.
He was dismissed from the Army and sentenced to a year in a civilian jail. Six other soldiers also faced the court martial, but were cleared in March 2007.
Britain's Ministry of Defense apologized and agreed last year to pay nearly $5.6 million (2.8 million pounds) to Musa's family and to the eight other men who were allegedly mistreated.
A post-mortem examination showed that Musa had been asphyxiated and suffered more than 90 injuries to his body.
In 2006 the Queen's Lancashire Regiment was merged with other units to form the Duke of Lancaster's Regiment.

it's ok because Americans commit most of the crimes, therefore they are more liable than the others

It seems that prisoner abuse isn't just exclusive to 'uncultured' US jar heads is it??

oh sweet Jesus , that's your argument to condone it ?

Originally Posted by Mid

oh sweet Jesus , that's your argument to condone it ?

Mid, He never said he condones it, but was wondering why only the USA was ever accused of it and everyone harping about it on these forums where most are limeys or limey sympathizers and Limey offspring.

same argument ain't it , why pick on us , everyone does it

one reason why your ( USA ) picked on so to speak is cause your a superpower and supposed to set a high standard .

We are the standard. Get it right.
Everyone else spends their whole lives comparing themselves to the US.

It's true. Don't try to deny it.

Originally Posted by blackgang

why only the USA was ever accused of it and everyone harping about

Not the case though- there was extensive publicity about it, several UK soldiers jailed, and it certainly came up here on Issues too. Your thread is about 18 months late DF!

We are the standard.

then ffs LIFT it !!!

No, we are the standard. Everyone else compares themselves to the US.

Many think they can improve their relative standing by lowering the standard.

Fortunately, it don't work that way.

Originally Posted by sabang

Your thread is about 18 months late DF!

Thats alright Sabang, There is always 1 or more threads about what an asshole US military/country is and atrocities done them so it should be accepted by the limeys here that some shit about them should sift thru,
Most people cept Aussies and Poms do not go around looking for things to down other countrys.

^ see post #10 above.

Tripping the fastest runner does nothing to make you faster. They don't realize it. It's fun to watch them flounder.

I would bet the vast majority of whiny Aussies are imports from you-know-where.

and Tex completely side steps the issue of LIFTING the standard

That would set the angry whiners further behind.

Desperately trying to expose the flaws of the smartest kid in the class doesn't improve your C average.

The British Army is no doubt just as bad as the American, there just don't have as many soldiers. And I've no reason to think that the British state is any better than the American at pursing those guilty for these crimes but this just means that they're all wallowing in the same puddle of shit.

Originally Posted by Dan

The British Army is no doubt just as bad as the American, there just don't have as many soldiers. And I've no reason to think that the British state is any better than the American at pursing those guilty for these crimes but this just means that they're all wallowing in the same puddle of shit.

Apparently the US Army doesn't have all the fatties, either. I'd be surprised if the US has much of this kind of problem:
British Army: Overweight, unfit soldiers hamper Afghan war effort - Monsters and Critics
London - The number of British troops who are too overweight or unfit for deployment are hampering the country's war efforts in Afghanistan, according to the army.

It's insignificant in the big picture.

Far worse things happen in large cities in both countries every day -- and nobody seems to take much notice.

Put a uniform on a guy and send him to combat and expect him to kill other people -- and a few guys end up breaking the rules.

yawn ... big deal

Read the police blotters today from Detroit or Manchester. Far juicier shit going on right under your nose.

smartest kid in the class , your killing me

that right there is a world class jump

^^^ I see Texpat's already left a comment on the article:

These fat skirt-wearing fruitcakes need to go on a diet and exercise more.

Originally Posted by Mid

smartest kid in the class , your killing me that right there is a world class jump

You know what he meant Mid, now you are trying to Pull the OLD HAT TRICK.
Please don't lower yourself.

indeed , 'cause the smartest kid in the class would be aware the being precieved as a big bully on the block isn't the smartest move .

Oh dear. Are you suggesting the fastest, smartest kid is also the strongest?

nope , neither is the bully

There is possibly as much abuse by the officers (in all armies) towards their own men under their command.Don't forget --there is a war on,people are getting killed on all sides.I don't condone it,but shit happens.And soldiers are not prepared for it and cannot cope.-US Soldier Suicide Rate Soars

1:19am UK, Friday January 30, 2009
The suicide rate among US soldiers has risen to its highest level in decades, Pentagon officials say.


Long tours of duty and an overloaded health service are being blamed
Last year alone, at least 128 American soldiers killed themselves.
But the final tally is likely to rise, as there are still 15 suspicious deaths being investigated, which may have been suicides.
The figure rose by at least 13 year-on-year and is at its highest level since records began in 1980.
In 2007, 115 US soldiers were recorded as having committed suicide and in 2006, 102 ended their own lives.
But last year's death rate is higher, at roughly 20.2 for every 100,000 soldiers.
The latest level is higher than the "adjusted civilian rate" for the first time since the Vietnam War.

A new prevention effort is set to launch
In response to the rise, the Pentagon has announced a new training and prevention programme set to launch next week.
Col Elspeth Ritchie, a psychiatric consultant to the Army surgeon general, made a plea for more mental health professionals to help the military.
She said: "We are hiring and we need your help."
It is thought the rise is due to the tremendous and unprecedented levels of stress levied on soldiers.
Long tours of duty due to the simultaneous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are thought to be making the issue worse.
In addition, the military healthcare system is overwhelmed with injured and mentally unwell troops, making it difficult for soldiers contemplating suicide to seek help.
The most common causes of suicide among soldiers are though to be problems with personal relationships, legal or financial stress and problems at work. http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content...150233.Suicide watch for soldiers in Iraq
An unprecedented "suicide watch" has been launched by commanders at Britain's main military base in Iraq following the deaths of three soldiers.

By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
Published: 9:00PM GMT 28 Mar 2009


An investigation has been launched to discover whether the soldiers, who died from self-inflicted gunshot wounds, were suffering from Post Traumatic Stress disorder (PTSD).
Members of the Royal Military Police (RMP) Special Investigation Branch (SIB) are also trying to establish whether their was any link between the three deaths which occurred during a ten-week period between December 2008 and February 2009.


Investigators will also try and determine whether the deaths of Private Ryan Wrathall, 21, Corporal Lee Churcher, 32, and LCpl David Wilson, 27, were accidental or suicide.
Following the third death in February, commanders launched a poster campaign calling for troops to keep a close watch on colleagues who appear to be exhibiting suicidal behaviour, mood swings and symptoms of PTSD.
One of the posters states: "Never let your mate fight alone. Worried about someone in your team? Be willing to listen. Not all wounds are visible".
The posters then calls on troops to: "Talk to your medical officer, Padre... Tell someone in your chain of command".
Another poster adds: "Never Accept defeat. Getting help is a sign of strength. No soldier stands alone. Your medical officer or Padre can help. Talk to someone in your chain of command."
Both posters also give details of a confidential "support lines" which can be accessible from anywhere in the world.
The exact circumstances surrounding the three deaths have not been established, although sources at the base said one of the soldiers had recently received a letter from his partner stating that their relationship was over.
Although it is possible that the wounds may have been self-inflicted accidentally, sources at the base believe all three were suicide.
The last of the three to die was Pte Wrathall of the 1st battalion the Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment. His death came as a huge shock to his colleagues and is said to have left many of them in tears.
Pte Wrathall's commanding officer Lieutenant Colonel Charlie Sykes said: "This is a unique Iraq tour. The city of Basra is at relative peace and we fully expect ours to be the last major British Army deployment to Iraq.
"This relative peace makes Private Wrathall's death even harder to come to terms with, as, much like the sandstorms we've experienced here in the desert, it comes out of a clear blue sky."
Cpl Churcher died at 10pm on Thursday 11 December while he was on his own at the Contingency Operating Base (COB) in Basra.
The MoD has confirmed that his death was now the subject of investigation by the SIB.
Cpl Churcher, who was involved in flying unmanned air vehicles and was a specialist in surveillance and reconnaissance, had planned to transfer to the RAF when he returned to the UK.
LCpl Wilson had become a father just 11 weeks before he was found dead on 4 December 2008. He was described as having a "positive and infectious" nature and a personality which "lifted" the atmosphere in any room he entered.
A senior officer based in Basra said: "The deaths of all of these guys came as a real shock.
"There have never been what we believe are suicides coming together in a relatively short period. If these were suicides – and all the indications are that they were, then signs were missed and that is something which should not have happened."
Suicide is a recognised symptom of PTSD and many former servicemen who have seen active service have taken their own lives.
At least 15 military personnel are believed to have taken their own lives after serving in Iraq and more veterans of the Falklands War have committed suicide than were actually killed in the war.
Lance Corporal Johnson Beharry recently criticised the government for failing soldiers who are suffering from PTSD after serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. LCpl Beharry, who was awarded the Victoria Cross for twice saving the lives of colleagues in Iraq while under heavy rocket fire, said that it was "disgraceful" that some veterans were struggling to receive treatment.
He said the Government was relying on military charities to cover its own deficiencies and called on it to act to better help the growing number of his comrades suffering from severe combat stress, depression and mental breakdowns.
He said; "These are people who have served this country. Why can't they get treatment? I don't think the Government is doing enough for soldiers.
"Those who are still serving get some form of help for combat stress but even those who are serving don't get enough support."http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/5065844/Suicide-watch-for-soldiers-in-Iraq.html And these men,or some of them,are in the battle zone being shot at.They are quite liable to respond incorrectly when the enemy is captured.