Bringing back the draft

[ChiangMai noon]

This is quite interesting.

I know that Smeg thinks that young English lads are impeccably behaved budding gents, but I think most are disrespectful thugs.

Wonder if it would work.

British voters: Bring back the draft

Oliver King and Simon Jeffery / London Guardian | July 12 2006

A poll finds a majority of British voters believe that bringing back the military draft would cut misbehavior by young people.

The Telegraph reported that 69 percent of those polled believe that compulsory service would cut the numbers involved in the "yob culture" and 65 percent think it would reduce overcrowding in prisons. The poll was done for the ITV "Bad Lads Army" program.

About 2.5 million young men were drafted between 1945 and 1963. They helped to fight the Korean War, served in Palestine before it was partitioned and occupied Germany. Some enjoyed comparatively peaceful postings in Hong Kong and other British outposts.

While no politicians have proposed reviving National Service in the military, some have suggested that young people be compelled to perform a period of community service as soon as they leave school, the newspaper said.

They include Chancellor Gordon Brown, who is in line to succeed Tony Blair as prime minister and David Cameron, head of the Conservative Party.

[ChiangMai noon]

Stop your baiting mallarky SK.


I'd be interested to know your opinion.
Would you have been a violent yobbo without military discipline?

[Butterfly]

I think the military actually promote violence, in a control kind of way

Sailors are different though, every tender with each other

[Storekeeper]

Would you have been a violent yobbo without military discipline?

Yes, probably a drunk ass truck driving tavern lizard. I have three brothers all younger than me. I was much worse than them as a youth and all three of them have spent time in the penitentiary. My youngest brother is currently serving a 10 year sentence.

[ChiangMai noon]

The behaviour of British youth is getting worse all the time, at least from anecdotal evidence. I haven't been there in nearly 6 years, but they mwere a bunch of ****s then.
My best mate, a comprehensive school teacher in one of the roughest catchment areas in South Wales suffered a nasty nervous breakdown at the hands of his teenage student, who didn't just take the piss in the class room, but constantly antagonised him at his home, shouting at his door, throwing stones at his window, waiting for him to come out in the morning.

Kids tripping up old ladies on buses.

Something drastic needs to be done.

I quite like the idea of bringing back the draft, even to a limited degree.

[Storekeeper]

I quite like the idea of bringing back the draft, even to a limited degree.

I'm against the draft ... period. And I'm against the old deals of letting people in the military who are given a choice by their judge of "Prison or the Military" ... by the way one of my long running problems with raycarey was that he continually antagonized me about why my oldest son isn't in the military ... this is why ... he is a convicted felon for drugs in the state of Washington.

The military of the US and UK are top quality people right now. You don't need to be slamming societies shit down the throat of the military just because you can't handle them in the civilian world. But if some people want to go ahead with it then they should keep their mouths shut and accept the atrocities commited by the military.

[ChiangMai noon]

You don't need to be slamming societies shit down the throat of the military just because you can't handle them in the civilian world.

that's a fair point, but how about a community service as mentioned in the article.

While no politicians have proposed reviving National Service in the military, some have suggested that young people be compelled to perform a period of community service as soon as they leave school, the newspaper said.

[Marmite the Dog]

I think it would be a good idea as long as they 'under achievers' or 'pacifists' were kept away from active duty. They should start in the Chav hotspots like South Wales, Manchester & Liverpool.

[Storekeeper]

that's a fair point, but how about a community service as mentioned in the article.

Believe it or not but this is something you'll be surprised to know that I view as an encroachment on individual freedom.

I also view it as something the rich will be able to buy their way out of and the middle class and poor will carry the burden.

If we're going to foce some kind of national service on people then how about we make them do their community service in some foreign third world country ... and no, not Thailand.

[Butterfly]

^ actually, a good idea SK

[NickA]

Even growing up as a "good" boy, with "good" friends, between the ages of 14 and 20 we were quite often involed in illegal activities - drink, drugs vandalism , theft (not violence, I can't stand violence) - why? cos everybody did it and there was no fear of being caught and punished - it was almost as if it was our right to do it!!!

Now, I'm sure there are many better people than me about who don't get involved in these things, but I would guess the majority do - and these aren't chavs, these are the people who are growing up to be the doctors, lawyers and teachers of the world.

Some people don't give a shit anymore and view it as an encroahment of their civil liberties if they get stopped from doing what they want to do.

At some point we need to get tougher with our youth or they'll all end up as TEFLers

[Lady Hawk]

While i don't agree with the thugish yobish kids of today.
We should look at why they are like they are.
Alchoholic,drug taking parents.
Schools that are not allowed to disipline pupils.
No after school clubs to keep them of the streets.
Parents working longer hours.
Break down of the family.
Football hooligans(adult).
The constant media coverage of war.
The above needs to be addressed,and quickly.sadley i do not think this will happen and things will get worse.
There is not respect anymore,and in my opinon for the reasons above.
kids need to learn love and respect.
The draft may teach them respect,but not love.

[Storekeeper]

I quite like the idea of bringing back the draft, even to a limited degree.

Did you serve in the military ? Why or why not ? I believe anybody who participates in this thread should answer these questions as part of their response. Let me qualify that with those who haven't served anyway.

[ChiangMai noon]

Did you serve in the military ?

no.

Why or why not ?

never gave it a thought.
i was fairly academic.
i went to university and studied law, it was kind of expected of me.

i was in the boy scouts though and that taught me to honor god and the queen. i left after 3 weeks.

I believe anybody who participates in this thread should answer these questions as part of their response.

Oi, it's my thread.

[Marmite the Dog]

Did you serve in the military ? Why or why not ?

No. Because I don't believe I have the right to take someone's life. I don't believe that the causes of my government are always my causes.

That is why I think if people did do national service, they shouldn't necessarily be forced into active duty.

I wish I had done NS because I believe it could've disciplined me in health & fitness matters, plus the opportunites to learn a skill and to learn how to deal with situations in different cultures (Peacekeeping).

[stroller]

I was a draft-dodger, I didn't want to be disciplined and trained to shoot at people. Teenage school leavers being subjected to the military command structure is enabling authoritarianism in society and this has supported the development of fascism and other undesirable forms of state in the past. -this was the reasoning in Germany in the 70s.

We are facing a different situation now.
I agree with Lady Hawk, serving in the military may promote some degree of respect, which seems to be sadly lacking in British council estates nowadays, but it cannot teach love nor make up for the lack of care during previous years.

And my argument still applies, that the military installs unquestioning discipline above everything else. I wouldn't agree with drafting my or my friends kids to the military. (Well, I've got a daughter in Thailand, so this is hypothetical)

[stroller]

No. Because I don't believe I have the right to take someone's life. I don't believe that the causes of my government are always my causes.

That is why I think if people did do national service, they shouldn't necessarily be forced into active duty.

I wish I had done NS because I believe it could've disciplined me in health & fitness matters, plus the opportunites to learn a skill and to learn how to deal with situations in different cultures (Peacekeeping).

Good on ye, Marmite.
There is a misconception, however. NS is about training people to kill and do this following orders, not one's own conscience.

[slimboyfat]

i am quite happy my son will be doing 2 years national service in the Singapore Armed Forces. It will give him a chance to get away from his mummy and grow up a bit.

Oh I never served in the military. i joined the merchant navy at 18 because the royal navy is full of pink gin guzzling public school boys.

From what I saw in Fleetwood, Lancashire last time I was there on a course I think that something has to be done about the teenage yobbos, although whether NS is the answer I dont know. I blame the parents.

[Butterfly]

Blame corporations. Stupid teenage oriented marketing, mobile, gaming etc... is spoiling them silly

[man with no head]

^ I agree, too many toys makes one unable to concentrate on being constructive with what one has.

Maybe give them the choice of either military training or social services. Make them understand early that they need to be a productive member of society and one way to do that is either the possibility of sacrifice or helping those less fortunate. For each year of service the nation would reward them with one year paid college. During both times room and board would be provided.

[Eliminator]

If you've never been in the military , then you know fuckall about it and I don't give a rat's ass if you had brothers or fathers or sisters or mothers in the military telling you bedtime stories, YOU still don't know shit.

Yes, in the beginning of service, you learn respect for your leaders and that may be harse and so onesided in that period but it is there to get you to follow orders from people that know more than you. In the majority of times, they do know more of what's going on and this might just save your butt if you can listen and follow those orders. Granted this is not 100% true in all situations but then what things are. You are always going to have bad appples on any level of the tree.

Sure everyone is going to bring back all the bad stories of Nam and now the latest crap that is going on but this NOT in any way the norm or even close to being a rampent thing happenning in all services or even one branch of service, whether it be Army,Navy,Marines or Air Force of any country.

There are attrocities that happen in any service from any country in any war. You see it all much more now as the whole world is watching and grab every thing and blow it up in peoples faces. If you've never been in the situation, how can you know anything.

I think everyone should do time in National Service as it does teach you a lot more than "just to kill people". For all you draft dodging pinko fags that didn't do any service: go suck an egg and shut the fuck up,



YOU don't know shit!

[Propagator]

I for one agree that NS should be brought back. Many of the youth of today have no respect for anything and the attitude to discipline is non existant. I found that it will make you become self sufficient and also give you the insight to work as a team with others. For many people the NS was the first time of being cut off from family life, the apron strings being cut, and learning how to fend for themselves. It also made people think about others, and to help them out, it got rid of the 'fcuk you jack, I'm all right' attitude.

Being the old fart that I am, I say that a little bit of discipline never hurt anybody, and todays youth dont get that. The teachers cant touch them, many parents couldn't care less what they are doing.

I'm ex army but done my training with NS intakes. Many of those NS people hated it at the time - the matter of losing two years out of their life, but at the end of their time in the service agreed that it had made men out of them, and had given them values that they had not had before. Not many regretted the experence.

[Fabian]

We always had draft since we reintroduced an army in the 50s and I don't see how that improved our youth.

By the way, I choose civil service instead.

[Storekeeper]

And my argument still applies, that the military installs unquestioning discipline above everything else.

Unfortunately stroller I can't convince you otherwise ... but you are wrong. I think that because you use it too broadly and can't possibly understand what I'm sayin' unless you've been in the military. And then even those who have only done one hitch often don't know any better. Compared to those who have served in the military you are one dimensional ... in some cases possibly a liability.

The military is composed of doctors, lawyers, pilots, tank drivers, truck drivers, dentists, nuclear plant operators, grunts, seamen, airman, Seabees, the list goes on and on and on. You don't know any better because you never served. What you describe sounds like the Russian military ... where nobody who isn't an officer gets any responsibility. Military of the Western countries can't afford to have a bunch of officers running everything for $250,000 year when they can pay some senior enlisted guy $100,000 a year to do the same job ... that's even cheaper than outsourcing to civilians.

[stroller]

I am sure there are other dimensions to the army, and I wouldn't paint all military personel with the same brush.

But I do know what the essence of a military is about - it's not about a humanitarian mission, but basically you give up your right to decide the course of your own action according to your conscience to a command structure.

I was tried as a conscienscious objector, this requires better preparation than "anecdotal evidence".


Btw, since I am in direct disagreement with Eliminator in this thread, I won't use my mod status to "censor" his comment, but his insults are really off the mark here.