Division of Indian Sub Continent

[machangezi]

OK, it was Britain's fault that all the different groups that live in the Indian sub-continent like killing each other.

An insane person would like killing not a sane one like yourself.

If Indian sub continent were divided with careful planning (by Brits), there wouldn't be so many problems in that part of the world. Today India and Pakistan are well armed with nuclear bombs and could be the reason for the third world war if they ever engage in military games. The Brits could have divided it between Hindus n Muslims in a way that would have been acceptable by both parties but alas they didn't. Today the rivalrey (sp?) b/w India n Pakistan is due to East Pakistan n Kashmir.

Lets see how the Brits divided Indian Sub continent on their departure!

[machangezi]

Ahhhh can somebody enlarge that map please?

[machangezi]

I think this one looks better.

[machangezi]

A Muslim country with two wings (east n west) and a Hindu country in between and a disputed region left right at the top (Kashmir)!!!!! Thanks very much dear planners.

[endure]

It may have been Britain's fault that the division was poorly thought out. It's not Britain's fault that India & Pakistan are still fighting about it 50 years later.

[machangezi]

^ Issues man issues. Care to explain a bit more?

[stroller]

Frankly, this is just one of the many mistakes colonial powers have made, which are still the source of major conflicts in the world.

Sorry, I don't mean to distract from the topic, nor from the British.

[endure]

I'm just pointing out that there comes a time when you have to stop blaming others for the problems that present themselves to you and take responsibilty for them yourself. I think 50 years is enough time. Let's assume that the Brits are totally and completely responsible for fcuking the division up. Now we've done that has it helped India & Pakistan? Not at all. It's their problem and they have to sort it out themselves.

[Marmite the Dog]

The Brits could have divided it between Hindus n Muslims in a way that would have been acceptable by both parties but alas they didn't.

Those stupid monkeys wouldn't have been able to agree on anything that would've been proposed. Any excuse to kill themselves and they jump at it. There's still more Muslims in India than Pakistan and Bangladesh combined, so it didn't really work anyway.

OK, seriously. I believe no country should be founded on religious denomination and that Pakistan and Bangladesh shouldn't exist. Maybe the best way would've either been to keep it as one big country (even better with British rule) or divide it back up into the small kingdoms and principalities that existed before Britain civilised them, then they could go around killing themselves and not be able to blame it on anyone else, but themselves.

[RDN]

...even better with British rule...

Damn right! We give in to their "You gotta let us have self-rule" and then get the blame when the different tribes/religions/ethnics start killing each other. Same same Africa.

[man with no head]

It reminds me of the book "Shogun" by James Clavell. There's a part of the story where the Anjin-San is explaning the division of the world to Lord Toranaga. After a moment he scratches his chin after the Anjin explains how Japan falls into the sphere of influence granted to the Portuguese by the Pope and Toranaga asks, "who is he to say who Japan belongs to?"

So many problems indeed caused by Colonial Europeans in the name of God, King, or Queen who divided the world and pulled out without any power to take their place. Indian-subcontinent, Middle East, Southeast Asia.

[man with no head]

I'm just pointing out that there comes a time when you have to stop blaming others for the problems that present themselves to you and take responsibilty for them yourself. I think 50 years is enough time. Let's assume that the Brits are totally and completely responsible for fcuking the division up. Now we've done that has it helped India & Pakistan? Not at all. It's their problem and they have to sort it out themselves.

If this were 500 years ago (or even 200 years ago) then that would be an acceptable position. But this is an inherently global world now and if Indai and Pakistan go at it it becomes all of our problems.

[endure]

It reminds me of the book "Shogun" by James Clavell.

If you liked 'Shogun' you ought to read 'Samurai William' by Giles Milton. It's the story of William Adams, the real 'Anjin-San'.

[endure]

I'm just pointing out that there comes a time when you have to stop blaming others for the problems that present themselves to you and take responsibilty for them yourself. I think 50 years is enough time. Let's assume that the Brits are totally and completely responsible for fcuking the division up. Now we've done that has it helped India & Pakistan? Not at all. It's their problem and they have to sort it out themselves.

If this were 500 years ago (or even 200 years ago) then that would be an acceptable position. But this is an inherently global world now and if Indai and Pakistan go at it it becomes all of our problems.

That still doesn't alter the fact that it's their problem. Others can encourage and assist them to solve it but in the end, they have to do it themselves. Blaming past history for present day problems just perpetuates them.

[man with no head]

No, I meant it affects more than just them. You really don't want nukes being launched.

[RDN]

...So many problems indeed caused by Colonial Europeans ... pulled out without any power to take their place. Indian-subcontinent, Middle East, Southeast Asia.

I thought we were "asked to leave" or "forced to leave" by the uppity locals who thought they could govern themselves and resented the white man being in charge. Maybe my education was biased - I had a white teacher in a very white country (England).

[Cobby34]

Nobody is perfect only perfect intentions!

Just look at all the borders in Africa,mostly straight lines.I wouldn't be to hard on the Brits,some of the countries did benefit from the British influence.As a whole the white man has a lot to answer too.If I remember rightly the native indians of North America had a bit of a rough deal.

[friscofrankie]

I remember rightly the native indians of North America had a bit of a rough deal.

So did the natives that were wiped out before white man ever arrived. So did neanderthal man when the homo apeins took over; and so on, and so on. Fuckin lookin to BLAME SOMEBODY is a weak-assed sissy way out. What we have now; is here and now! Fuckin' deal with it.
The Franks, the Saxons, Celts, Moors, vandals, catholics, ad nauseum; we could lay balme on motherfuckers back to kingdom-come. The responsibbility is in the hand of those living today. The blame? What the fuck has any of that got to do with life today?
Fuckin useless lookin for a scapegoat. A culture or country to blame.
Fuckin human race; disgusting. Looking for someone to blame; never wanting' to take responsibility.

Sometimes I just get sick of the whole lot.

Blame and fault is a waste of time

[reinvented]

Its britains fault
i like that imean teah there is tension there but that was there before god's chosen arrived
believed it started with the spread of islam which led to india giving the world pikey's

face facts if it hadn't been for blighty they would al still be burning widows, sacrificing people to kali, eating each other, no electricity or even worse speaking french
as FF said they are young states but they need to grow up and accept responsibility

UK not guilty on this i'm afraid

[man with no head]

I remember rightly the native indians of North America had a bit of a rough deal.

So did the natives that were wiped out before white man ever arrived. So did neanderthal man when the homo apeins took over; and so on, and so on. Fuckin lookin to BLAME SOMEBODY is a weak-assed sissy way out. What we have now; is here and now! Fuckin' deal with it.
The Franks, the Saxons, Celts, Moors, vandals, catholics, ad nauseum; we could lay balme on motherfuckers back to kingdom-come. The responsibbility is in the hand of those living today. The blame? What the fuck has any of that got to do with life today?
Fuckin useless lookin for a scapegoat. A culture or country to blame.
Fuckin human race; disgusting. Looking for someone to blame; never wanting' to take responsibility.

Sometimes I just get sick of the whole lot.

Blame and fault is a waste of time

Not always, when poor political decisions leave things in a mess then it helps to associate blame so that such decisions (partitioning of someone else's land into separate pieces to assure a homogeneous culture in each) can be avoided in the future if the decision of the past lead to current problems (Israel/Palestine and India/Pakistan).

The treatment of the Native Americans isn't in the same boat since a foreign force came, conquered, and some group(s) of people lost. That's a natural fact of life.

But who partitioned the Indian-subcontinent? Britain. Are the British still there? No, they left it a total mess because several hundred years of British rule destroyed the traditions and culture that was there (intentionally or not, that's a different argument). Same thing with the Middle East. Someone else divided the land and gave it to the wrong groups of people.

[Thetyim]

If two groups are claiming the same land then it is impossible to partition it so that there are no arguments.
What do you want from the Brits, a miracle ?

[Marmite the Dog]

No, they left it a total mess because several hundred years of British rule destroyed the traditions and culture that was there (intentionally or not, that's a different argument).

After the Brits left it was the first time the Indians had self rule for centuries. Britain only took over and improved the situation from the Moghuls. They wanted to rule all of India and failed; Britain managed to do so, and at the same time providing law & order and infrastructure.

The problem with the India is that the Hindus had no idea how to self rule (seeing as they hadn't done it for so long) and the fact that they rebelled against the legacy of good governance (in general) left by the Brits and decided to look towards Russia and adopt Communism. It's only recently that they've woken up to the fact that Comuunism doesn't work and have started to do things properly again.

But, the answer about why they like to kill each other is because they're a bunch of uncivilised muppets.

[Sir Burr]

No... I beg to differ....it wasn't Britains fault.

Neither Britain, nor, Congress wanted to partition India. Mohammed Ali Jinnah from the Muslim League insisted on it. He said there would be civil war without partition.
Nobody could agree on the border if it was left upto them.
Eventually, they got a cartographer (I think) from Britain who had never been to India whos remit was to define the border. He was given two weeks to do it in.

The fault lies with both the Indians and the future Pakistanis as they were both intransigent in moving the independence day date back, to allow the cartographer more time to complete his task.

It was futile anyway......ten million people were slaughtered on the mass migrations that partion set off.

[Marmite the Dog]

British India in 1935, 12 years before independence. Note the different religions and princely states.



The reorganization of Indian states soon after independence.

[stroller]

But, the answer about why they like to kill each other is because they're a bunch of uncivilised muppets.

That is rich, coming from a Brit.
Inform yourself about the atrocities committed by the British rulers, then decide who the "uncivilised muppets" are.