Can Europe produce an Obama?

[Texpat]

By Steven Erlanger
International Herald Tribune
November 12, 2008

PARIS -- In the general European euphoria over the election of Barack Obama, there is the beginning of self-reflection about Europe's own troubles with racial integration. Many are asking if there could be a French, British, German or Italian Obama, and everyone knows the answer is no, not anytime soon.

It is risky to make racial comparisons between America and Europe, given all the historical and cultural differences. But race had long been one reason that Europeans, harking back to the days when famous American blacks like Josephine Baker and James Baldwin found solace in France, looked down on the United States, even as Europe developed postcolonial racial problems of its own.

"They always said, 'You think race relations are bad here in France, check out the U.S.,' " said Mohamed Hamidi, former editor of the Bondy Blog, founded after the 2005 riots in the heavily immigrant suburbs of Paris.

"But that argument can no longer stand," he said.

For many immigrants to Europe, Obama's victory is "a small revolution" toward better overall treatment of minorities, said Nadia Azieze, 31, an Algerian-born nurse who grew up here. "It will never be the same," she said, over a meal of rice and lamb in the racially mixed Paris neighborhood of Barbès-Rochechouart.

Her sister, Cherine, 29, is a computer engineer. Obama "really represents the dream of America — if you work, you can make it," she said. "It's a hope for the entire world."

But the sisters are less optimistic about the realities of France, where minorities have a limited political role, with only one black deputy elected to the National Assembly from mainland France.

Has the Obama election caused any real self-reflection among the majority here?

"It's politically correct to say, 'O.K., great! He's black,' and clap," Nadia said. "But deep down, there's no change. People say one thing and believe another."

In all the jobs she has ever had, she said, "I've always been asked to do more, because I'm an immigrant. We always have to prove ourselves."

Down the street, picking through the cheap clothes on sidewalk stands, Fatou Diedhiou, 34, born in Senegal, said that Obama's victory may make the French give blacks "a bit of respect." But she finds deep racism among the French, who she says "think that all blacks are illiterate and can't do anything but clean."

Obama is an exceptional figure even in the United States, a nation of immigrants with a long and complex history of racial problems going back to the Indian wars and the extensive slave trade, which produced a bloody civil war.

Most European countries were relatively monoethnic until the postcolonial period. Britain, for example, was largely white until the mid-20th century and still does not have a substantial black middle class, while French immigrants are almost all from former French colonies in North Africa, like Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia, or in black Africa, like Mali, Senegal and Ivory Coast.

Measured by political representation of minorities, both the United States and Europe seem lagging, though Obama's victory seemed to underscore how much farther behind Europe is.

Obama is the only black in the current Senate, and unless he is replaced by an African-American, the new Senate will have none. The new House has 39 black representatives, about 9 percent. Blacks make up about 13 percent of the country's population.

But Rama Yade, the Senegal-born state secretary for human rights, called herself "a painful exception" in the French government, despite President Nicolas Sarkozy's appointment of three prominent black or Muslim women to his government. As for the political elite's embrace of Obama, she said, "The enthusiasm they express toward this far-away American, they don't have it for the minorities in France."

It is not only immigrants who are pondering what Obama's victory says about Europe. France's defense minister, Hervé Morin, called the Obama victory "a lesson" for a French democracy late to adopt integration.

"In this election, the Americans not only chose a president, but also their identity," said Dominique Moïsi, a French political analyst. "And now we have to think, too, about our identity in France — it's the most challenging election ever. We realize we are late, and America has regained the torch of a moral revolution."

In Italy, Jean-Léonard Touadi, the only black member of the Italian Parliament, sees the Obama victory similarly. It is "a great and concrete provocation to European society and European politics," said Touadi, born in the Congo Republic. Obama gives hope, he said, that "one day" there can be a similar outcome in Europe.

But not soon. Hossain Moazzem, a Bangladeshi waiter at L'Insalata Ricca restaurant, said he hoped Obama's victory would foster "change all over the world." But Italy, he said, had a "long, long" way to go.

In Britain, too, there was skepticism. Trevor Phillips, the black chairman of the independent Equality and Human Rights Commission, said that the political system held immigrants back. "If Barack Obama had lived here, I would be very surprised if even somebody as brilliant as him would have been able to break through the institutional stranglehold that there is on power," he told The Times of London.

Britain has several minority ministers below cabinet rank, but just 15 nonwhites in the 646-member House of Commons. The parliamentary system makes it harder for a young person or an outsider to emerge.

"In Britain, you can't make a brilliant speech and get noticed the way Barack Obama did," Sadiq Khan, a Labor minister, told The Guardian. "You have to rise up through the ranks in Parliament."

But Ashok Viswanathan, assistant director of Operation Black Vote, which works to engage members of minorities in politics, predicted that Britain could have a party leader from a minority in the next 10 to 15 years, and a minority member as prime minister in 30.

"If someone said two years ago that there would be a black president, most people would have laughed that person out of town," he said. "The very nature of aspiration is when barriers are broken, whether in flying to the moon or being the first black person around a cabinet table — it's something that nobody believes will happen."

Germany is yet a different case, with its largest immigrant population invited from Turkey to work in West German factories in the 1960s and 1970s. Germany now has some 2.9 million inhabitants of Turkish background, 800,000 of them with German citizenship under new laws. But they have little political representation in the unified Germany of 82 million, with just 5 members of the 613-seat Bundestag.

Even Cem Ozdemir, Germany's best-known ethnic Turkish politician, currently a European legislator, is having trouble getting on the Greens Party list of candidates for the Bundestag — in part because of internal opposition to his ambition to lead the party.

"Germans can't believe a Turkish politician believes in a politics for Germany," said Mely Kiyak, 32, a German-born daughter of Turkish parents who wrote a book, "Ten for Germany," about the problems of ethnic Turkish politicians. "The Germans think, 'This is our country. Why should we elect a Turk? He might want to Islamicize the country."'

The Germans love Obama, she said, "but we don't have minorities anywhere, not in media, in politics, in the executive or the judiciary."

Ferdi Sarikurt, 22, who works in a bakery in Berlin's Kreuzberg district, came to Germany at age 1 and is a citizen. A German Obama is beyond his imagination, he said. "The German government would not allow this to happen because it would think that a person with an immigrant background would favor the foreigners. Maybe this will change when I am 50 years old, if at all."

But Kiyak said the Obama victory was causing significant reflection in the immigrant community, if not yet in the country at large. "Minorities see what is possible in another country, and they become jealous," she said, noting that President Abdullah Gul of Turkey said recently in Der Spiegel that Turkish Germans "should take part in German society and politics and not look back."

Given that France has such close ties to its former colonies and more Muslims than any other country in Europe, the debate here is more complicated.

On Sunday, numerous politicians signed a manifesto written by Yazid Sabeg, a millionaire child of Algerian immigrants, calling for affirmative-action programs to turn the supposedly colorblind French ideal of equality into reality for alienated immigrants.

"The election of Barack Obama highlights via a cruel contrast the shortcomings of the French Republic and the distance that separates us from a country whose citizens knew how to go beyond the racial question," the manifesto said. It won support from Sarkozy's wife, Carla, who told Le Journal du Dimanche, "our prejudices are insidious" and hoped the "Obama effect" would help to reshape society.

But the French model of citizenship does not allow for official distinctions by race or religion. When a legislative official here was asked for data on the number of black or Muslim legislators, he told a reporter to "look at the pictures on the Senate directory," to judge by name and skin color.

Joseph Macé-Scaron, writing in the French-language weekly Marianne, said that the discussion of a "French Obama" was a diversion and a screen, substituting a false American model onto France. The problem here, as in other parts of Europe, he said, was less the rejection of nonwhite immigrants than the way political and cultural elites patronized and used them, "only to better block access to the top of the social ladder."

Praising "the 'difference' of nonwhites locked them inside identities of resentment," he said.

But the conservative Le Figaro blamed French minorities themselves for part of their exclusion. The paper noted that Obama's success was based on his upbringing, education and success at integrating into the larger society and articulating its values, including patriotism.

"From this point of view, Obama should be the model to follow for young immigrants who have come to doubt their feeling of belonging to the nation," the paper said. "Minorities, who have chosen their exile, in contrast to black Americans, still have a lot to prove."

Can Europe produce an Obama? - International Herald Tribune

***

Interesting story. Electing a black man is a measure of racial tolerance and integration. That's noteworthy, historical even. But I don't believe it's the end of the story. Will he succeed as president? Electing him doesn't mean he won't be a shitbag. Did American dissatisfaction with current leaders drive voters to get as far away from Bush as possible?

I hope Obama is a great success and goes on to be a source of pride for America. But if things turn ugly, will America discount and discard him even more quickly because of his color? I don't know.

[Travelmate]

Fok nice cut 'n' paste

[Mid]

Did American dissatisfaction with current leaders drive voters to get as far away from Bush as possible?

Bingo ........

surprised you need to ask

[sabang]

But if things turn ugly, will America discount and discard him even more quickly because of his color? I don't know.

I don't think so. If he turns out no good, America will reject him because he's no good- not because he's half black.

[Texpat]

I would hope not.

What about Europe's prospects for integration?

[Rural Surin]

He hasn't even taken office yet and all these invisible accelades and what not. Already has his place in the history books. He hasn't even served a day of the American premiership and already using him as a standard and comparative. Social engineering at it's finest. Strong dose of Kool-Aid.

[sabang]

If the right guy emerges, I could see the UK electing an ethnic Indian, or West Indian. There are already Indians in the House of Lords. A bit like the US though, it would not be popular in all quarters. The rest of Europe, h'mm. Not yet I reckon.

[blackgang]

Sure as hell they can,,
All they need is a darky what ain't wound real tight, and they got lots of em to choose from, then pump millions of dollars up his ass til it comes out his ears and get all the white liberal reverse racists behind him and the darkies will win.

[Texpat]

^^^ That's the point I'm making RS.

Electing a "black" (sort of) man is a leap -- an historic leap. But that's as far as I'm willing to go at this point. Obama's legacy will stand or fall on its own merit, like every other president.

Will Europe evolve the same lines?

[larvidchr]

^^^ That's the point I'm making RS.

Electing a "black" (sort of) man is a leap -- an historic leap. But that's as far as I'm willing to go at this point. Obama's legacy will stand or fall on its own merit, like every other president.

Will Europe evolve the same lines?

When individual countries in Europe have had 1 single immigrant group in as large numbers for as long a time as is the case with the African Americans in the US I am sure the opportunities will be equal or even better than the present state for African Americans in the US, we cant really compare at this point because the historical time line is very different and the background is very different ie. slavery/civil war aso.

Some European immigrant organisations is using the Obama election to jump quite a few generations of development and integration forward and you cant really blame them for trying, but the fact is that in most European Country's we are only in to 3-4 generation of our immigrants and that is a vast difference to the US scene.
It would be equal wrong to ask how far the integration of the Africans in the US was when they had been in the US for only 3-4 generations, we all know the answer to that one!

And imagine the (lets hope not) scenario where Obama gets assassinated in a not to distant future then the same organisations crawling out of the woodwork now will all be saying how lucky they are to live in Europe where the tolerance is so much higher.

Finally let me try a few thoughts of my own, It is on the back of changed tolerances/development in the white US population that Obama even got a chance to win, the African American vote was almost exclusively Obama votes proving that they still are lacking in the same area and still are much more "African than American", their vote was a race vote and not based on political merit and views of the candidates, if I am right and I believe so, then instead of showing improved race relations in the US then the Obama election only accentuates that huge race and integration problems are very much alive in the US.

I don't know if it is possible/legal to actually get the numbers on what skin colour voted for whom, and how much bigger the % of coloured votes was at this election compared to previous elections with only white candidates but it sure would be interesting.

Regards.

[Texpat]

but it sure would be interesting.

Indeed.

[DrivingForce]

Will Europe evolve the same lines?

especially if he does fail? I do see his color as a perceived issue if he does not do well, rightly or wrongly, it will be an issue..and for some an excuse not to attempt change anytime soon..

[baldrick]

Did American dissatisfaction with current leaders drive voters to get as far away from Bush as possible?

would Obama have won if either Gore or Kerry had been the current President ?

America has not had a leader in my adult lifetime that I have had any respect for.

[ChiangMai noon]

would Obama have won if either Gore or Kerry had been the current President ?

I believe he would have.

special guy.

if i were gay, I'd lubb him.

[Norton]

America has not had a leader in my adult lifetime that I have had any respect for.

I thought Eisenhower was OK.

[blackgang]

I thought Eisenhower was OK.

Fucking right he was,put union men out of work for a longer period than anyone else except that asshole Hoover and then Ronald and I don't mean McDonald,, dirty union busting republican pricks.

[Norton]

Can Europe produce an Obama?

How about this guy?

"Barring cries of “Yes we can”, the homecoming of Lewis Hamilton to McLaren headquarters last week could have been mistaken for another notable celebration across the Atlantic."


Lewis Hamilton: The whole world in his hands - Times Online

[astasinim]

Labour ‘racism’ would block British Obama, says Trevor Phillips

Equality chief condemns glass ceilings in politics


Barack Obama would never have been elected prime minister in this country because of “institutional racism” in the Labour Party, the head of Britain’s equality watchdog has told The Times.
Trevor Phillips says in an interview today that the public would be happy to vote for a black leader, but the political system would prevent an ethnic minority candidate getting to the top.
“If Barack Obama had lived here I would be very surprised if even somebody as brilliant as him would have been able to break through the institutional stranglehold that there is on power within the Labour Party,” said the head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. He said that there was an “institutional resistance” to selecting black and Asian candidates. “The parties and unions and think-tanks are all very happy to sign up to the general idea of advancing the cause of minorities but in practice they would like somebody else to do the business. It’s institutional racism.”



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5110811.ece

[Butterfly]

I hope Obama is a great success and goes on to be a source of pride for America.

I have a feeling that you are sticking a fork in your hand while saying this, you don't sound truly honest

But if things turn ugly, will America discount and discard him even more quickly because of his color?

they will definitely, probably saying that liberals have elected a dumb "nigger"

anyway, not going to happen, the smart nigger is worth a thousand of dumb texas ranger

[panama hat]

When individual countries in Europe have had 1 single immigrant group in as large numbers for as long a time as is the case with the African Americans in the US I am sure the opportunities will be equal or even better than the present state for African Americans in the US, we cant really compare at this point because the historical time line is very different and the background is very different ie. slavery/civil war aso. Some European immigrant organisations is using the Obama election to jump quite a few generations of development and integration forward and you cant really blame them for trying, but the fact is that in most European Country's we are only in to 3-4 generation of our immigrants and that is a vast difference to the US scene. It would be equal wrong to ask how far the integration of the Africans in the US was when they had been in the US for only 3-4 generations, we all know the answer to that one!

These were my thoughts exactly. Taking away nothing from Obama having been elected and the hurdle of race overcome to some extent, you can look at Europe and see that minoroties have been in higher positions longer.

In this case one has to see 'minorities' as what they are, not referring to skin colour.

Europe has been down the road way before the US.

. . . and then one looks at Australia . . . I doubt an Aboriginal PM will ever be possible . . .

[Mid]

I doubt an Aboriginal PM will ever be possible . . .

don't be so sure ............



xxx.xxx.xx

[DrivingForce]

Did American dissatisfaction with current leaders drive voters to get as far away from Bush as possible?

would Obama have won if either Gore or Kerry had been the current President ?

America has not had a leader in my adult lifetime that I have had any respect for.

i agree with this mostly, Kennedy never really got traction any real legacy he might have had was muted and nothing more than speculation IMO, the last one for me was Reagan...

[Agent_Smith]

I don't know if it is possible/legal to actually get the numbers on what skin colour voted for whom, and how much bigger the % of coloured votes was at this election compared to previous elections with only white candidates but it sure would be interesting.

I'm unable to copy the graphic but USA Today reports that 95% of blacks voted for Obama and 5% McCain. See link below.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...ter-survey.htm

I've read that voter turnout for all demographics were near or surpassed historical highs.

[Whiteshiva]

Also, let's not forget that Obama is half-white, half-black. Would he have had the same appeal to white voters without a white mother?

Children of immigrants will almost always have a hard time integrating fully, while children of one immigrant parent may actually have some advantages over their local counterparts. I would expect there to be a lot more "half-caste" children raising to high positions in both Europe and the US in the years to come.

[larvidchr]

I don't know if it is possible/legal to actually get the numbers on what skin colour voted for whom, and how much bigger the % of coloured votes was at this election compared to previous elections with only white candidates but it sure would be interesting.

I'm unable to copy the graphic but USA Today reports that 95% of blacks voted for Obama and 5% McCain. See link below.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...ter-survey.htm

I've read that voter turnout for all demographics were near or surpassed historical highs.

Thanks AS, confirms my thoughts and shows that rather than being a step forward towards interracial understanding the Obama election accentuates the deep race divisions in US society. If I was a white liberal democrat this would not be my proudest moment, I would know our victory was won only by the support of the very same one-sided racial views that I had been fighting to change, and that I had prostituted my principles willingly/unwillingly to get the victory.