Law Enforcement: justfied or not?

[barbaro]

This is near me hometown. Was this justified or not?

The person that hit the wall has been in a coma since May 10th.

[raycarey]

another thread about scum bag cops?

maybe there should be a thread entitled "put your scum bag cop stories here"

[barbaro]

^ I think this case is an example of misbehaviour by the cop.

Wonder if there was not video tape?

And why not even draw a gun or taser and tell the guy to get on the ground?

Why the push?

The police department is backing the officer who did this.

There is going to be a lawsuit for sure. Possibly settle out of court.

We'll wait to see if the 27 year old guy, with no criminal record, who just got married will have permanent brain damage.

[larvidchr]

I think this very unfortunate young man should have stopped when challenged instead of running, the situation in the US with all the violent crime, have very sadly created a situation, where Police always initially react very forcefully until it is established that there is no threat to their own or innocent bystanders safety, to many especially Europeans it seems very excessive, but we have to remember that conditions there are very different and to the US Police it is much like a war zone.

When force is used accidents happen every so often, had this been a gangbanger armed with a concealed weapon, not very many would have batted an eyelid, and the thing is that the Officers do not know this before having checked out a person.

Most US citizens know to stand still and keep their hands in plain view when challenged by Police in a hot situation, this young man maybe got scared, or he acted instinctively because he like many young men not always is quite as nice as his parents is led to believe, who knows? whatever his reasons the consequences is terrible tragic.

The Officer acted correct, and it was obviously not his intention to cause a serious head injury but just to make a takedown, it is important to understand that this was an accident, I will however say that the takedown to me was clumsily executed, but looking at the Officer it probably is just about what he is capable of looking unfit and overweight.

The incident is extremely tragic and I feel really sorry for the young man and his family, where the chain falls off for me is that the Police department not immediately takes full responsibility and awards the Family whatever many millions is the norm in cases like this, the Officer did by accident cause the serious injury and as such it is the responsibility of the Department.

Finally not that it helps a lot, but I am pretty sure that the Officer is devastated, and if this young man don't pull through, this will stay with the Officer for the rest of his life. Most Police Officers really are idealists who do the job, not for the "good money" (everybody knows that), but because they believe in the necessity off someone protecting the decent ordinary citizens, as such an accident like this hits double hard because it is the exact opposite of what the goal was.

I hope the Young man will pull through.

[Loy Toy]

If I understand that a uniformed Policeman has ordered me to stop I stop, put my hands behind my head and for the main reason I don't want to get a beating let alone a bullet in my back.

Run and you are automatically assumed as being a criminal trying to hide something.

Why this young lad ran is beyond me and although I feel sorry for his present predicament he should of stopped immediately especially as I am sure he knew that some bad shit was going down in that area at the time.

I agree with Larvidhr that the cop that hurt the lad is probably devastated but if the lad had done what he was told he could of walked away free.

With regard to all of the flack the cops are getting people forget they are humans as well and when put in street warfare situations have to react with controlled aggression.

I sincerely hope the lad recovers fully from his injuries as well.

[barbaro]

If I understand that a uniformed Policeman has ordered me to stop I stop, put my hands behind my head and for the main reason I don't want to get a beating let alone a bullet in my back.

Run and you are automatically assumed as being a criminal trying to hide something.

Why this young lad ran is beyond me and although I feel sorry for his present predicament he should of stopped immediately especially as I am sure he knew that some bad shit was going down in that area at the time.

I agree with Larvidhr that the cop that hurt the lad is probably devastated but if the lad had done what he was told he could of walked away free.

With regard to all of the flack the cops are getting people forget they are humans as well and when put in street warfare situations have to react with controlled aggression.

I sincerely hope the lad recovers fully from his injuries as well.

I agree, that once you run, you assumed to be guilty, or a participant directly or indirectly. This was a stabbing and something else.

We don't know why he ran. We may know why someday. We may never know. Some think that in the dark of the alley with the black uniforms he didn't recognize them as police immediately.

[blackgang]

He Ran when challanged and told who they were, Never do that unless you have a reason to run, he is old enough to know, did he have a reason to run??

[barbaro]

He Ran when challanged and told who they were, Never do that unless you have a reason to run, he is old enough to know, did he have a reason to run??

No, he did not have a reason to run.

He was not involved in the theft and stabbing. No criminal record. Steady employment as a server at an Edmonds restaurant.

People think he was in Seattle just to go out. Friends probably drove him (about 15-20 minutes into Seattle from Edmonds) because his car was in Edmonds.

Nobody knows why he ran. If he comes out of a coma, and remembers anything that night, he might explain.

[blackgang]

Rodney King never stayed down and threw 2 cops off while they were cuffing him and charged at another cop, And they had been on his ass with a CHP car for miles.
But everyone seems to think he was in the right, so why any doubt about this guy being 100% right.

[panama hat]

Jeeeesus . . .

Unfortunately it does look like, as the Sheriff's Dept spokesman said; a tragic accident.

However, he does go on to say that the police had 'probable cause to arrest this guy' . . . Well, they didn't. The victim wasn't pointed out, the alley-way was pointed out.

Yup, law-suit . . . and the family will hopefully win. If they don't, who will cover the medical costs that will run into the hundreds of thousands?

[barbaro]

Jeeeesus . . .

Unfortunately it does look like, as the Sheriff's Dept spokesman said; a tragic accident.

However, he does go on to say that the police had 'probable cause to arrest this guy' . . . Well, they didn't. The victim wasn't pointed out, the alley-way was pointed out.

Yup, law-suit . . . and the family will hopefully win. If they don't, who will cover the medical costs that will run into the hundreds of thousands?

With probably cause to arrest, while the run-push?

I'm not a cop, obviously. And we haven't seen the running & chase that preceded the push/bump.

[Jesus Jones]

This wasn't justified in my opinion. The guy wasn't exactly sprinting, he was coming to a halt. The wanker of a copper could have dealt with it in a different way, by even pointing his tazer without the need to use it.

[barbaro]

This wasn't justified in my opinion. The guy wasn't exactly sprinting, he was coming to a halt. The wanker of a copper could have dealt with it in a different way, by even pointing his tazer without the need to use it.

I agree, JJ.

And the SPD (Seattle Police Department) is backing the officer 100%.

Whatever happens to this guy, I think there will be a lawsuit. Result of it? Who knows.

But just think, how much the medical bills are?

This guy worked at a restaurant as a server. Maybe he has medical insurance, maybe not.

But the bill for being in intensive care, in a coma since May 10th (now, 15 days), I am sure the bill is in the tens of thousands.

Could easily hit $100,000+.

[Nietzsche]

That was disgusting.

Forget justice, I'd take revenge.

[larvidchr]

That was disgusting.

Forget justice, I'd take revenge.

You can come back out now Redrum

[larvidchr]

This wasn't justified in my opinion. The guy wasn't exactly sprinting, he was coming to a halt. The wanker of a copper could have dealt with it in a different way, by even pointing his tazer without the need to use it.

The thing is JJ that under normal circumstances a physical takedown is considered the lesser on the scale of use of force, but when it goes wrong like in this case it looks different to the layman.

Once a tazer is drawn it is an escalation from physical force, if the sight of the tazer had freaked the young man even more and he started to run again the Officer would have had to shoot him with it, Police do not do idle threats.

Again it is a very sad case. And I think the Department should take full responsibility money wise, it was not intentional but it was clumsily executed, and it was their action that ultimately caused the injury.

I also think it is a bit of a public relations blunder the way they seem to handle it, they should be out covering all medical expenses already and be open about it, at the same time they should explain that they where taking care of the Family's expenses and preparing to pay whatever settlement that the family's legal representatives and the Department would find the norm in comparable civil Lawsuits.

[panama hat]

What I do find a bit frightening about this episode is the message that it sends out about the use of force and the stonewalling that is to be expected from those that 'protect and serve'.

Is the population being told that even if you are innocent you can expect to be beaten into a coma if you don't comply with any and every demand made by the men in blue? Sadly there have been so many instances of police brutality that one's initial reaction may be to run.

Maybe the victim was trying to run away from a possible criminal the police were pursuing in his direction . . . I guess we'll only find out when/if the poor guy comes out of his coma.

[Jesus Jones]

This wasn't justified in my opinion. The guy wasn't exactly sprinting, he was coming to a halt. The wanker of a copper could have dealt with it in a different way, by even pointing his tazer without the need to use it.

Once a tazer is drawn it is an escalation from physical force, if the sight of the tazer had freaked the young man even more and he started to run again the Officer would have had to shoot him with it, Police do not do idle threats.

Fair point. As far as idle threats, your way out. Not all of course, but the majority are power freaks.

[larvidchr]

^^
I can understand you find it frightening PH when you persist to fail to recognise that nobody "was beaten into a coma" it was an accident, and yes you are supposed to comply with every legal command from Officers in a hot situation, if you don't you are on your own.

On the other hand if you are innocent it should pose no problem and you would be assisting your community by clearing up any misunderstandings so the Officers quickly can direct their attention elsewhere and not waste precious time with you.

You are not "dim" PH so I think that you misinterpret this on purpose so it will fit your very commendable general critical stand against any Officials abuse of power

[Nietzsche]

If one of us had pushed that guy, because, I don't know, he was shouting at your bird, or something & he'd gone into that coma, we'd be up in court in a flash & never mind what excuse you came up with, you'd do time.

This is abuse of power at its most extreme - they're not prosecuting 'one of their own', as it were.

[larvidchr]

If one of us had pushed that guy, because, I don't know, he was shouting at your bird, or something & he'd gone into that coma, we'd be up in court in a flash & never mind what excuse you came up with, you'd do time.

This is abuse of power at its most extreme - they're not prosecuting 'one of their own', as it were.

Naturally Redrum, because only special groups in society (Law enforcement officials, Security personnel, Military personnel) is by Law allowed the use of force in circumstances other than self-defence or protection of property.

[Nietzsche]

by Law allowed the use of force

They don't have free-reign to half-murder someone.

[panama hat]

I can understand you find it frightening PH when you persist to fail to recognise that nobody "was beaten into a coma" it was an accident,

You are not "dim" PH so I think that you misinterpret this on purpose

Thank you for the compliment . . . and I did agree that it was an accident in my first post.

Unfortunately it does look like, as the Sheriff's Dept spokesman said; a tragic accident.