Hmong to be sent back to Laos - Moved from news

[dirtydog]

Hmong to be sent back to Laos
Bangkok (dpa)

About 8,000 Hmong refugees living in Thailand are to be repatriated within 12 months to Laos, the two countries announced Thursday, despite warnings from human rights groups that the refugees faced persecution back home.

The deal meant that the refugees from the ethnic group that battled communist forces in Laos during the Vietnam War would be returned home, by force if necessary, the government-run Thai News Agency said.

The return of the Hmong - who currently live in a camp in Petchabun province, 290 kilometres north of Bangkok - would be conducted on "humanitarian principles," Thai Lieutenant General Niphat Thonglek said.

His Lao counterpart, General Bunakleang Champapan, said communist-ruled Laos accepted that monitors should ensure the Hmong were fairly treated on their return.

It was not clear, however, whether third-party monitors would be permitted. The two countries have balked in the past at involving other parties to their talks on the refugees, calling it a bilateral issue.

Human Rights Watch, a New York-based rights group, last month called it shocking that Thailand was even contemplating returning refugees "fleeing from political persecution, rights abuses and fighting."

It accused Thailand of showing "brazen contempt for the most basic principles of refugee law" and argued that the Hmong should be allowed to remain in Thailand until they are resettled in third countries.

The group said it has received reports of abuse and detention of repatriated individuals.

Thailand repatriated 31 Hmong to Laos in May and 163 more in June. Human rights organizations have complained that no outside monitors can find out what has happened to them since.

Bunakleang said he hoped the refugees at Petchabun would return voluntarily, but he added that if they would not, then "force may be necessary."

Officials from Thailand have argued that the Hmong refugees remain a source of bilateral friction and a burden on the host country while Lao authorities have long resisted taking in people they suspect are hostile to its rule.

Refugee experts said Thailand is concerned that the mere presence of the Hmong - even in a camp surrounded by barbed wire - is attracting an endless flow of people leaving Laos for the relative wealth of Thailand. Some of the refugees have been there for decades, but some are recent arrivals.

Thailand stopped the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees from screening arrivals for political refugee status in May, allowing Thailand to tag all refugees as "illegal immigrants."

Thai Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said in August that without firm action, the refugees would become a "never-ending problem."

The Petchabun camp is guarded by armed soldiers and served by one relief agency, Doctors Without Borders.

Human Rights Watch complained that although many of the camp's inhabitants are children, the Thai authorities have provided no schooling for them. It was also denied access to the camp in July.

[Mid]

US needs to step up here ,

hopefully this is designed to put the pressure on .

[blackgang]

WELL, Any that are over 60 might have been in cahoots with USA during Viet Nam fiasco, under 55 most are bullshitting and under 50 they would still have been shitting yellow when it was over, so it is simple.
If they are younger than 50 it is a quick trip to Vientiane,,55 ask em a few questions and 60 then there is a chance they were resistance.

and they have been here for years, so if the host nations were worried about it they would already have em out of here.

USA has no business in it anyway, look at the mess their own yard is in, 12 million illegal aliens in their country and they can't do anything about it,, maybe should watch Thailand and learn something.

And I think that this is a Thai problem and Human rights Org should shut the fuk up, none of their business, no more than EU monitoring the elections,,same o same o.

[stroller]

How would you know there weren't any 16 year old resistance fighters back then? Was there a minimum age, is it unbelievable there were 16-20 year olds involved???

"Thai problems" involving human right transgressions are also international issues, specially when refugees from a neighbouring country are concerned. Human Rights Watch is obviously one of the monitoring bodies reporting on it.

[Texpat]

[Hootad Binky]

If they return to laos they will be detained, tortured, and starved. The US should have taken them all a long time ago.

[stroller]

Yeah, a significant number of 16-year-old resistance fighters in 1960.

Hmm, when did US support for the resistance stop, 1975? And when did the Hmong resistance itself stop?

Have you seen what these Lao dorks are capabe of at 16?

Read your own posts. You mignt be the biggest knob here. Maybe Surayud should give you back to the Lao's.

You talking to me? This doesn't make any sense at all.

Are you drunk?

[friscofrankie]

Thirty years later they're being kicked out fo what has become their home? They will not be treated fairly and if they are too young to have participated so what? it's been thirty fucking years! leave 'em alone I think they have adjusted to their new home, isn't time their new home adjusts to them? Does Loas want them back?
I have to wonder why.

[chitown]

The Hmong have been targeted for extermination. They are still being hunted by Lao and Vietnamese soldiers. They have had their houses burned, food stores destroyed, starved to death, women and children have been raped and tortured, and all are being killed. They are hated and despised in Lao. A good documentary with proof is one that is called Hunted Like Animals.

The US has taken in 300,000 or more Hmong refugees over the years. The Thai and Lao governments have said that it is between the two contries and no one else. They will not even let the UN, journalists, or aid groups in the camp to check on the people, let alone US intervention. Although the US has saidi they have taken all the Hmong that they can take.

Many say that this is a US started problem and that may be partially true. They do however fail to jog theit memories and remember that Indochina was a FRENCH problem to start. No one seems to admit that. Thailand (and other regional countries) was begging for US assitance to keep communism from over running the Kingdom. They allowed military bases to be set up here, sent Thai troops, and enjoyed the security of American tropps protecting them the country from communism. The Hmong fought for Thailand too.

Thailand has had a memeory lapse in that area.

[chitown]

Thirty years later they're being kicked out fo what has become their home? They will not be treated fairly and if they are too young to have participated so what? it's been thirty fucking years! leave 'em alone I think they have adjusted to their new home, isn't time their new home adjusts to them? Does Loas want them back?
I have to wonder why.

These 8000 have just fled to Thailand in recent years (3 to 4. They are Hmong Lao and the ones that are citizens here are Hmong Thai.

[friscofrankie]

So then these are the folks that may, or may not, have participated in the relatively recent (last 5 or six years) attacks & skirmishes? We aren't talking just about the French, then US, supported fighters against the communist in the 60s & 70s, are we?

The deal meant that the refugees from the ethnic group that battled communist forces in Laos during the Vietnam War would be returned home, by force if necessary, the government-run Thai News Agency said.

So this then is extremely misleading or an out & out lie. the Vietnamese ware ended thrity years ago.

[stroller]

I suppose there was an "official" civil war with US support until the communists took power in '75, after this time one could regard the ongoing resistance as an internal security matter.
Whatever, the refugees are all in danger of "being disappeared", regardless o0f age and whether they were fighting or not, as far as I can see.

[blackgang]

35 years ago, 1972 all the combat troops were pulled out and sent home, The last troops were in Lao at least 39 years ago, 1968 there were no more troops out of Nam sent into Cambodia or Lao.

[friscofrankie]

Some of the Hmong have continued to fight the communists up until very recently. The ones, as quoted in the article, that fought over thirty years ago then fled the country after the US pulled out wold not be the same as the ones that stayed and continued to fight. The US brought a hell of a lot to the US (some have continued to support those fighting in recent times).

Some of the refugees have been there for decades,

well then...
That's just ridiculous.

Whatever, the refugees are all in danger of "being disappeared", regardless o0f age and whether they were fighting or not, as far as I can see.

I tend to agree with this. The Thais don't want to deal with them and just may leading the sheep to slaughter. if there are people still active being deported I can't condone what is going to happen when they return but on the other hand I can't condemn the Thai for deporting them. throwing the baby out with the bath water here. Too lazy to shift through the mess?

Irresponsible and callous IMO.

[benbaaa]

First they came for the Hmong, and I did nothing...

Then...

[blackgang]

^, First they let the 8000 hmong in to stay illegally and did nothing, then there was all of a sudden 12 million illegals in the country for a govt. to support that could not support their own people to start with before the 12 million came and then.............

[stroller]

What you're on about now?
There aren't 12 million coming, and the gov doesn't support anyone. This is Thailand, not the US.

And this is not about 'illegals', it's about the fate of a persecuted ethnic minority.

[blackgang]

^, Read post 15, thats where the 12 mil came from,

What you're on about now?
There aren't 12 million coming, and the gov doesn't support anyone. This is Thailand, not the US.

And this is not about 'illegals', it's about the fate of a persecuted ethnic minority.

And this surely is about "illegals", they crossed the border into Thailand with out a entry visa or came and stayed when not allowed to live here.
And supporting schools and some other things in the country that is the gov. responsibility to support also belongs to the people of Thailand.

Apples and Oranges again.

[stroller]

Apples and Oranges again.

That's my point.
The issue touches on a few others, the status of hilltribes and ethnic minorities in Thailand, for example.

But you have not even acknowledged a major point here, which is that these people are in danger of persecution if returned to Laos, regardless of their individual history.
That makes them very different from say, other Laotians who've crossed into Thailand to work and are now being deported.

[blackgang]

That's my point.
The issue touches on a few others, the status of hilltribes and ethnic minorities in Thailand, for example.

But you have not even acknowledged a major point here, which is that these people are in danger of persecution if returned to Laos, regardless of their individual history.
That makes them very different from say, other Laotians who've crossed into Thailand to work and are now being deported.

NO, this is about some that say they will be hasseled, that they were resistance fighters, no proven, Seems that most were born after 1972 or even before that that would have been to young.
This is Thailand, and most Thai I have talked to want em out and it is their country and none of our business, seems folks raise a lot of hell about the USA, "Bunch of bastards, sticking their nose in other govt.s business",, then you all want to stick your noses in Thai govt. business

Should make up your minds,, either Tri Lateral or each country take care of its own business.

[panama hat]

First they came for the Hmong, and I did nothing...

Then...

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945






Glad to see the quote I hold dearest to me.

It has lost none of its poignancy since 1945

[blackgang]

But Thailand has a right to expel anyone from their country, we are supposedly guests here, paying guests I might add, but they are in their rights to kick out ass' out any time they choose.

We are not citizens here and if they tell us that out visa is no longer in effect and to leave, then we must leave or we also become illegal aliens.

And I did know about the quote, and it is very true.

[Mid]

But Thailand has a right to expel anyone from their country,

not so fast ,

has to do with refugee status ........................

[blackgang]

Seems as Thailand does not recognize that status for some, Thailand did not sign up to receive refugees as did the USA and some other I would imagine, so if they did then they should be prepared to take them and not leave Thailand to support them with Thai tax moneys.
I believe some where it said they have been here for years.

Still as guests of this country it is not our place to tell Thailand what it does in this case.
If we do not like what they are doing then we should not stay here and spend our money, but go someplace that operates under a criteria that we approve of or go home.

[Mid]

Still as guests of this country it is not our place to tell Thailand what it does in this case.
If we do not like what they are doing then we should not stay here and spend our money, but go someplace that operates under a criteria that we approve of or go home.

you need to reread post #21 ,

about a hundred times .......................