Thread: UK standard of living rises above that in America for the first time in a century

UK standard of living rises above that in America for the first time in a century

For the first time in more than 100 years, British living standards have risen above those of Americans, a report has declared.

Increasing incomes, longer holidays and "free" healthcare have all contributed to making Britons better off than our friends across the Atlantic, according to the respected Oxford Economics consultancy.

The feel-rich factor is calculated using the gross domestic product (GDP) per citizen - an indicator of average incomes - which in Britain will be £23,500 this year, compared with £23,250 in America, it predicts.

"The UK has been catching up steadily with living standards in the U.S. since 2001, so it is a well-established trend rather than simply the result of currency fluctuations."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=506442&in_page_id=177o

As I have long suspected, the American empire is in terminal decline and the British empire, as was, could be on the rise again.

This is laughable.

Prices and taxes in the USA are way below those in the UK.

£ 23,500 per annum in the UK. No wonder people are borrowing so much.

Originally Posted by Thormaturge

£ 23,500 per annum in the UK. No wonder people are borrowing so much.

That is only an 'average', but to be an average there must be those below that figure as well. I agree, I don't know how you'd live on £23k in the UK let alone less than that!?!

I have heard some stories about that FREE healthcare in the Uk. It sounds....eerm....uhhhh.......superb

Originally Posted by chitown

I have heard some stories about that FREE healthcare in the Uk. It sounds....eerm....uhhhh.......superb

Free health care?

Originally Posted by chitown

I have heard some stories about that FREE healthcare in the Uk. It sounds....eerm....uhhhh.......superb

Yes, that's a common misconception - it isn't actually free. We pay tax and national insurance to cover it - a lot of tax and national insurance.

Then there are the stealth taxes. Petrol is a good example. When you buy a litre of petrol you actually pay 47.1p in fuel tax - then just to add insult to injury VAT is charged after that - so you are actually paying tax on a tax!

This picture explains it:

Price of Petrol in the UK - PetrolPrices.com

I think fuel duty has gone up more since that picture was made. To put that in perspective when I fill up with £50 of petrol, the government is taking £33 of that directly in tax!

My basic deductions are around 35% per month, but when you take into account stealth taxes, poll tax, VAT I reckon the deductions are well over 50%. You then have capital gains tax (now without taper relief), inheritence tax and stamp duty (tax on house purchase). It goes on and on...

But back to the original topic...

The report quoted says our GDP (in UK) is higher than USA and equates that with us being better off than people in USA. It's cobblers. The cost of living in USA is much lower generally. Housing for example is a lot cheaper than in UK and generally things are cheaper in USA. Additionally, there are far fewer stealth taxes in the USA. It's not about what you've got coming in, it's what you've got going out.

Also, I don't believe GDP really has a good correlation to standard of living, because standard of living is much more complex than just GDP.

I believe what's more important than GDP or standard of living is quality of life - so I take much more notice of quality of life surveys. Countries that have much lower GDPs than UK often have a much better quality of life - Portugal is a good example of that.

The Economist quality of life index illustrates this quite nicely. You'll notice there's very poor correlation between the GDP ranking and QOL ranking:

http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf

Again it's all very subjective. Ireland scores top place - but I would hate to live there (I have lived there in the past) because the weather sucks - same for Norway and Sweden. And don't get me started on Finland - when I was last there the f*****g sea was frozen solid!

Thailand performs badly (even though I think the quality of life is quite high there) because of its political problems and widespread poverty (Isaan et alia).

So how do you define quality of life? I'm not sure you need to. The bottom line is if you are happy living in a particular place that's the only survey that counts.

Standard of living is a very subjective measure. For example, I think Australia's standard of living would beat both places hands down, but I doubt that is reflected in economic reports.

Originally Posted by sabang

I think Australia's standard of living would beat both places hands down, but I doubt that is reflected in economic reports.

it is...

1. Iceland 0.968 ( 1)
2. Norway 0.968 ( 1)
3. Australia 0.962 ()
4. Canada 0.961 ( 2)
5. Ireland 0.959 ( 1)
6. Sweden 0.956 ( 1)
7. Switzerland 0.955 ( 2)
8. Japan 0.953 ( 1)
9. Netherlands 0.953 ( 1)
10. France 0.952 ( 6)
11. Finland 0.952 ()
12. United States 0.951 ( 4)
13. Spain 0.949 ( 6)
14. Denmark 0.949 ( 1)
15. Austria 0.948 ( 1)
16. United Kingdom 0.946 ( 2)
17. Belgium 0.946 ( 4)

from Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by NickA

1. Iceland 0.968 ( 1)
2. Norway 0.968 ( 1)
3. Australia 0.962 ()
4. Canada 0.961 ( 2)
5. Ireland 0.959 ( 1)
6. Sweden 0.956 ( 1)
7. Switzerland 0.955 ( 2)
8. Japan 0.953 ( 1)
9. Netherlands 0.953 ( 1)
10. France 0.952 ( 6)
11. Finland 0.952 ()
12. United States 0.951 ( 4)
13. Spain 0.949 ( 6)
14. Denmark 0.949 ( 1)
15. Austria 0.948 ( 1)
16. United Kingdom 0.946 ( 2)
17. Belgium 0.946 ( 4)

^
That looks more believable to me, although im surprised the UK featured in the top 17.

Originally Posted by astasinim

Originally Posted by NickA

1. Iceland 0.968 ( 1)
2. Norway 0.968 ( 1)
3. Australia 0.962 ()
4. Canada 0.961 ( 2)
5. Ireland 0.959 ( 1)
6. Sweden 0.956 ( 1)
7. Switzerland 0.955 ( 2)
8. Japan 0.953 ( 1)
9. Netherlands 0.953 ( 1)
10. France 0.952 ( 6)
11. Finland 0.952 ()
12. United States 0.951 ( 4)
13. Spain 0.949 ( 6)
14. Denmark 0.949 ( 1)
15. Austria 0.948 ( 1)
16. United Kingdom 0.946 ( 2)
17. Belgium 0.946 ( 4)

^
That looks more believable to me, although im surprised the UK featured in the top 17.

I am more surprised that Spain is in the Top 17 but Germany is not.

Originally Posted by NickA

Originally Posted by sabang

I think Australia's standard of living would beat both places hands down, but I doubt that is reflected in economic reports.

it is...

1. Iceland 0.968 ( 1)
2. Norway 0.968 ( 1)
3. Australia 0.962 ()
4. Canada 0.961 ( 2)
5. Ireland 0.959 ( 1)
6. Sweden 0.956 ( 1)
7. Switzerland 0.955 ( 2)
8. Japan 0.953 ( 1)
9. Netherlands 0.953 ( 1)
10. France 0.952 ( 6)
11. Finland 0.952 ()
12. United States 0.951 ( 4)
13. Spain 0.949 ( 6)
14. Denmark 0.949 ( 1)
15. Austria 0.948 ( 1)
16. United Kingdom 0.946 ( 2)
17. Belgium 0.946 ( 4)

from Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm surprised New Zealand is not in that list, unless they take cricket into consideration

As to the OP, I don't think it is a case of the UK standard of living overtaking the US, but rather the US standard of living sinking below the UK's. IOW, the UK standard of living has not got that much better, but the US standard of living is falling. And that I can believe.

America's middle-class just getting by?
Rethink that paradigm, eh? The difference between reality and so-called 'news' coverage.

reason.tv - Videos > Living Large

^seems they don't take temperature into consideration or they like it cold.

Originally Posted by chitown

I have heard some stories about that FREE healthcare in the Uk. It sounds....eerm....uhhhh.......superb

Yeah, that'll no doubt be propaganda from the HMO's and the like in the US whose job is to convince you that it's better to be bankrupted when you are unfortunate enough to get sick than seek treatment because it's free (and therefore all evil and communist like)

Ireland is the surprise. Do they have a very high standard of living or is it just very expensive ?

Originally Posted by Begbie

Ireland is the surprise. Do they have a very high standard of living or is it just very expensive ?

Agree they're a bit of a dark horse but they've been climbing steadily up the list since the early nineties, and have had among the strongest growth rates in Western Europe.

Originally Posted by astasinim

That looks more believable to me, although im surprised the UK featured in the top 17.

If those little up/down green/red arrows indicate change from previous year then the UK is movin on up and the US is movin on down. Also, this is a human development ranking. Is standard of living the same?

Originally Posted by Norton

the US is movin on down.

They can probably thank Mr. Bush for that.

Originally Posted by astasinim

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by astasinim

That looks more believable to me, although im surprised the UK featured in the top 17.

If those little up/down green/red arrows indicate change from previous year then the UK is movin on up and the US is movin on down. Also, this is a human development ranking. Is standard of living the same?

All i know is the gap between the haves and have nots, is widening at such a rate, that we`ll be back in Victorian times soon. You just have to look at the housing market at the moment. First time buyers just cant get on the ladder, and are finding themselves renting or living with mum and dad into their 30s.

In the UK society is slowly breaking down into four categories (IMHO):

1. -Those who work in min wage jobs with zero security

2. - Those working for the govt. (lots of them) at not much over min wages but with pensions etc + more benefits.

3. - Those who are retiring or selling up their small businesses to leave the place or live off limited capital

4. -An increasingly wealthy, but tiny elite that control increasingly larger monolithic corporations.

In the case of the UK overtaking the US in per capita GDP, more like a case of the US falling behind the UK I suspect. In any case, averages ignore the growing gulf between groups 1 and 2, and group 4.

I quiet liked living in England, but ive never lived in America, so Im not sure, but its probably not as good because i dont like american football or baseball or basket ball, but I do like football and crikcet. Also I like curry's, I dont know if you can buy Indian curry's in America, so I woulsd have to know about that first befor I deiced.

But nobody's answered the fundamental basis of the report. How do you link per capita Gross Domestic Product to standard of living?

I offer an example:
Country A makes a lot of shit and exports it to Country C.
Country B makes very little but consumes all it makes.
Country C imports shitloads from Country A, at very high cost.

What does any of this have to do with how well they live compared to each other? Throw in currency fluctuations (very wild lately) and it get even murkier. rubbish.

I would have expected to see some chart which combines:

A) Life expectancy;
B) Literacy;
C) GDP;
D) Inflation;
E) Cost of living;
F) Self-destruction (suicide)rate.

A because it is an indication of the health of the population
B because educated people can achieve more
C because it is an indication of individual incomes
D because it is an indication of the rate at which C is being eroded
E because it is an indication of how much of C is disposable
F because if after taking acount of A-E people aren't happy then there is something else (weather, crime, freedom of pression,etc) that people are still unhappy about.

I did see a survey that came close to this once and Australia came out on top with Canada close behind.