cancer within the US air force

[raycarey]

“Military professionals must remember that religious choice is a matter of individual conscience. Professionals, and especially commanders, must not take it upon themselves to change or coercively influence the religious views of subordinates.”
—Religious Toleration (Air Force Code of Ethics, 1997)

below are excerpts from a very interesting article on christian extremists who are in the process of taking over the US air force.

it was written by a graduate of the air force academy whose son was also recently admitted...

The orientation began with a one-hour “warrior” rant to appointees and parents by the commandant of cadets, Brig. Gen. Johnny Weida. The fact that the word warrior had replaced leadership was a signal of what was to follow. I later learned that cadets, to determine when a new record was established, had created a game in which warrior was counted in each speech Weida gave.

My son and I then made our way to the modernist aluminum chapel, where I expected to hear a welcome from one or two Air Force chaplains offering counsel, support and an open-door policy for any spiritual or pastoral needs of these future cadets. In 1966, the academy had six gray-haired chaplains: three mainline Protestants, two priests and one rabbi. Any cadet, regardless of religious affiliation, was welcome to see any one of these chaplains, who were reminiscent of Father Francis Mulcahy of “MASH” fame.
Instead, my son’s orientation became an opportunity for the academy to aggressively proselytize this next crop of cadets. Maj. Warren Watties led a group of 10 young, exclusively evangelical chaplains who stood shoulder to shoulder. He proudly stated that half of the cadets attended Bible studies on Monday nights in the dormitories and he hoped to increase this number from those in his audience who were about to join their ranks. This “invitation” was followed with hallelujahs and amens by the evangelical clergy. I later learned from Air Force Academy chaplain MeLinda Morton, a Lutheran who was forced to observe from the choir loft, that no priest, rabbi or mainline Protestant had been permitted to participate.

The academy chaplain staff had grown 300 percent while the cadet population had decreased by 25 percent: from six mainline chaplains to 18 chaplains, the additional 12 all evangelical. The academy even gained 25 reserve chaplains, also nonexistent in earlier times, for a total of 43 chaplains for about 4,000 cadets, or one chaplain for every 100 cadets.

and who could forget this story below.... when i first heard it, i assumed this guy was just another religious nut. who knew he was just one of many in the US air force?

In the following weeks, a uniformed Army Maj. Gen. William Boykin began sharing his Christian supremacist views from church pulpits around the country, declaring that he was “God’s Warrior” and that “America is a Christian nation.” He demeaned the entire Muslim world by stating that his God was bigger than a Muslim warlord’s god and that the Muslim’s god “was an idol.” He received little more than a token slap on the wrist. At the time, Joseph Schmitz, then the Department of Defense inspector general (Schmitz is currently the chief operating officer of Blackwater International), found that Boykin had committed no ethics violations.

and then there's this beauty..

In what would have been my son’s academy summer encampment, chaplain Watties “suggested” that cadets return to their tents and tell their tent mates they would “burn in hell” if they did not receive Jesus as their savior.

nice.

you can read more about the cancer within the US air force here...

Truthdig - Reports - The Cancer From Within


it seems to me that this is exactly the type of behavior that leads other nations and religions to look upon the US and its military as "crusaders".

[blackgang]

Jesus Christ,, you have really got down to the low end of things now,, I didn't think you could get much lower, Guess I will have to stop doing my own thinking where you and a few others are concerned.

[britmaveric]

Hmmm yank airforce has chaplains? My god that is shocking.

[Texpat]

Yes, chaplains serving a nondenominational assembly. (Christian, Jew, Muslim etc etc...)

[quote=raycarey;452500][quote]who knew he was just one of many in the US air force?

In the following weeks, a uniformed Army Maj. Gen. William Boykin

You are a complete wank. This story has the perfect blend of elements for you...military and religion. Bet you got a hard-on when you saw this (3-year-old) story.

[raycarey]

Jesus Christ,, you have really got down to the low end of things now

so you approve of this behavior?
although i suppose it doesn't surprise me that you're unable to see the repercussions in global opinion because of it.

Hmmm yank airforce has chaplains? My god that is shocking.

that's no shocking at all actually. but what is shocking (or at least should be) is that these zealots are 'suggesting' that one cadet tell another that he will 'burn in hell'. it should be shocking that these evangelicals have infiltrated the US military to the degree they have.

whatever happened to the separation of church and state?

Army Maj. Gen. William Boykin

my bad. however, in my defense, it's not easy to differentiate between the costumes you boys wear.

Bet you got a hard-on

umm.....no, actually i didn't. but i have to admit that it is somewhat disconcerting that you've given thought to me and whether or not my penis is erect. i suppose in some might consider it flattering, but just so you know...i don't. as much as you'd like to discuss my penis....i just don't think about you that way.

this (3-year-old) story.

it was published one week ago.

[bbigman21]

Jesus Christ,, you have really got down to the low end of things now

so you approve of this behavior?
although i suppose it doesn't surprise me that you're unable to see the repercussions in global opinion because of it.

Hmmm yank airforce has chaplains? My god that is shocking.

that's no shocking at all actually. but what is shocking (or at least should be) is that these zealots are 'suggesting' that one cadet tell another that he will 'burn in hell'. it should be shocking that these evangelicals have infiltrated the US military to the degree they have.

whatever happened to the separation of church and state?

Army Maj. Gen. William Boykin

my bad. however, in my defense, it's not easy to differentiate between the costumes you boys wear.

Bet you got a hard-on

umm.....no, actually i didn't. but i have to admit that it is somewhat disconcerting that you've given thought to me and whether or not my penis is erect. i suppose in some might consider it flattering, but just so you know...i don't. as much as you'd like to discuss my penis....i just don't think about you that way.

this (3-year-old) story.

it was published one week ago.

As you should now well any idiot regardless of his job is free to speak his mind. You seem to do it all the time!

[barbaro]

Good OP, IMO

The clergy in the Air Force has grown 300 percent, while the number of people in the AF has declined by 25%

Why is this?

And, Evangelicals?

The military is a person's job, if they're in it. Why is religion involved. If they want to see a religious pastor, rabbi, or priest, they should do it on their own time, off-site of the military.

[raycarey]

As you should now well any idiot regardless of his job is free to speak his mind

not when my tax dollars are paying his salary.

Why is religion involved.

this is precisely the point.

apparently, however, some posters find it necessary to attack the messenger (this humble poster) when their energies would be better served by looking closer at this type of assault on the constitution.

[Butterfly]

The Christian Sect crusaders in the US missed the funs of the Elite RC Inquisition and thought it would be a good idea to catch up with history,

[AntRobertson]

As you should now well any idiot regardless of his job is free to speak his mind. You seem to do it all the time!

If he's an idiot as you claim then surely it would be easy for you to address the points he raises, if not actually refute them, instead of simply calling him names that add/prove nothing.

[bbigman21]

As you should now well any idiot regardless of his job is free to speak his mind. You seem to do it all the time!

If he's an idiot as you claim then surely it would be easy for you to address the points he raises, if not actually refute them, instead of simply calling him names that add/prove nothing.

Because I do not want to pull up obscure posts and even sometimes out of context. To prove my point. If he wants to pout on this forum that is his business. I simply suggest if he does not want to pay his taxes,then just don't!!

[Texpat]

these evangelicals have infiltrated the US military to the degree they have.

The story is about the Air Force. You stick some Army guy in there by mistake and then switch your comments to encompass the entire military. Inconsistencies like this cause rapid loss of credibility Mr Carey.

What degree of infiltration is this? I spent 23 years in the active Air Force and another as a civilian -- and never once met an evangelist. In fact the only times I ever went to a chapel (not a church, not a synagogue, not a mosque, a chapel) was for a friends funeral*. I'm not religious and was never once, in 24 years forced to do anything religious.

But according to your statement the degree of infiltration is significant. Please tell us of your military background and how you're qualified to make these damning statements about an organization of more than 300,000. Or is it just stuff you found on a website called Truthdig -- a progressive journal of news and opinion? A blog.

cancer within the Air Force
extremists taking over the Air Force

whatever happened to the separation of church and state?

Actually I agree with you on this one. I never had much use for the chaplains, but some people did. I respect their religious needs and just carried on (something you obviously can't seem to grasp). When I was growing up in the US people prayed all the time in my community. Before football games, graduation ceremonies, PTA meetings, Boy Scout meetings, other events. It never bothered me and I didn't get upset. The military is a microcosm of the US population -- why would you expect it to be different? I'm a taxpayer too and there are a lot of things I don't agree with, but I don't make a career out of discrediting them.

*I know you're salivating at that one, it was a drowning death.

it was published one week ago.

Wrong again. It was posted Nov 7.
Did you bother reading it? This occured in 2004. And by the way, blogs are posted, newspapers and magazines are published. Retarded elementary school children can post blogs (evidence the OP). They're rarely published.

Here is the story citing the findings of a panel published at the end of the investigation, June 23, 2005. A well-written news story, equally damning, but written without the emotion and hair-on-fire as your OP. The panel consisted of congressmen, civilian clergymen and senior AF officers. Nearly every "offense" cited occured in 2004.

Intolerance Found at Air Force Academy

Maj Gen John Weida, was removed as commandant of cadets and commander of the Air Force Academy in 2005.

Fischer DeBarry, AFA football coach, retired in 2006.

This 3-year old story, while has merit, does not signify anything other than a problem uncovered and resolved. Nobody died, no money was misappropriated, there was no cover-up.

It was reported on heavily when it was relavent. The OPs version was written by a disgruntled retired AF father whose son was supposedly treated badly. Maybe he was.

Cancerous is a little over the top there Chicken Little, don't you think?

The clergy in the Air Force has grown 300 percent, while the number of people in the AF has declined by 25%

The AF has been growing for the past several years, not sure where this info came from.

Suppose you have an Air Force of 380,000. Reduce it by 25% that's 285,500.

Now suppose you have a 200 active duty chaplains in increase of 300% bumps that up to 600.

600 chaplains serving 262,500 (plus their families, at least another 250,000) in time of conflict and heavy deployment load is not extreme. Having said that, I personally don't have any use for them. The AF personnel website says they have 500 active duty chaplains.

If you want to smear the Air Force, why not go out on a scavenger hunt.

Fisher DeBarry AFA vs TCU "Afro-Americans can run very fast."
First Lieutenant Kelly Flynn.
US$1M toilet seats
gold plated satellites


---

The history of the Air Force Chaplain Service reflects the history of America. As defenders of the First Amendment right to the free exercise of religion in the Air Force community, the Chaplain Service traces its roots to the very beginning of our nation.

On July 29, 1775, the Continental Congress established the military chaplaincy. Chaplains were paid $20 per month, and provided "forage for one horse."

Gen George Washington issued this order at Valley Forge on May 2, 1778: "The Commander-in-Chief directs that divine services be performed every Sunday at eleven o'clock in each bridge which has chaplains...While we are duly performing the duty of good soldiers, we are not to be inattentive to the highest duties of religion."

Worship for soldiers was voluntary and chaplains of all faiths cooperated with each other, being sympathetic to the beliefs of others.

---

PS if you're an American taxpayer, I thank you for my salary this month. Zero hours worked, again...

[raycarey]

The story is about the Air Force. You stick some Army guy in there by mistake and then switch your comments to encompass the entire military. Inconsistencies like this cause rapid loss of credibility Mr Carey.

well which is it maikhun?
first you get your panties in a twist about the the army general, and now it's only about the air force?
the article is primarily about the infiltration of the air force...but as pointed out so eloquently by you, it is also happening in the army as well.

I spent 23 years in the Air Force and never once met an evangelist.

you were in the air force?
anyway, that's the point of the article....apparently that's escaped you. during the orientation process for his son, the author noticed a marked difference from when he joined. got it?

Please tell us of your military background

none...and proud of it.

d how you're qualified to make these damning statements about an organization of more than 300,000

you claim to have read the article posted in the OP...but did you really? i have my doubts. btw, how many cancer cells are too many in organism?

I'm a taxpayer too and there are a lot of things I don't agree with, but I don't make a career out of discrediting them.

well, i for one believe in the constitution.
and after the 23 years of the indoctrination you experienced, it's not surprising that your spirit to speak up about that with which you disagree has disappeared .

*I know you're salivating at that one, it was a drowning death.

* what?

Wrong again. It was posted Nov 7.

blogs are posted, newspapers and magazines are published.

semantics.
anyway, the article was posted/published 1 week ago. many of the events described in the article took place back in 2004, but i hardly see how that is relevant. because the events happened a few years ago, they can't be discussed now.....especially considering the fact that it was posted/published a week ago?
nonsense. just because you don't want this sordid tale disclosed, doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed.
how many people on this forum do you think were aware that this type of thing was taking place in a US military academy?

Maj Gen John Weida, was removed as commandant of cadets and commander of the Air Force Academy in 2005.

good. was he demoted?

PS if you're an American taxpayer, I thank you for my salary this month. Zero hours worked, again

you're welcome. i can only assume that you earned it.
btw, i noticed on the health care thread that your decision to move to thailand was significantly based ("weighed heavily' are the words you used) on the price of health care.
doesn't it strike you as odd that you worked for the US govt for 23 years (and in theory put your life on the line in its defense), yet you can't afford to pay for health care in the US?
anyway, enjoy your pension.

[blackgang]

no, actually i didn't. but i have to admit that it is somewhat disconcerting that you've given thought to me and whether or not my penis is erect. i suppose in some might consider it flattering, but just so you know...i don't. as much as you'd like to discuss my penis....i just don't think about you that way.

Faggot, he doesn't call it a dick or even a cock, those are a lot larger than what he is packing and his Mamma said that it was dirty and not to talk about it, so he doesn't.

i noticed on the health care thread that your decision to move to thailand was significantly based ("weighed heavily' are the words you used) on the price of health care.
doesn't it strike you as odd that you worked for the US govt for 23 years (and in theory put your life on the line in its defense), yet you can't afford to pay for health care in the US?
anyway, enjoy your pension.

I don't remember Tex saying he couldn't afford it, but that it was a lot cheaper over here than it was there.

Jesus Christ Carey, you are a scuzz.

[britmaveric]

All units have Chaplains - strong tie between god/country. Nothing new here and if some chaplains are preaching fire/brimstone I seriously doubt anyone takes them seriously. These are smart lads.

[raycarey]

Nothing new here and if some chaplains are preaching fire/brimstone

what you fail to grasp, is that it violates the (alleged) separation of church and state. in the revolutionary war, this is one of the reasons the brits were beat down and thrown aside by the emerging United States.

These are smart lads.

perhaps....but that's not the point. plenty of intelligent people have had the wool pulled over their eyes by insidious evangelical christians.

but can we get back to the statement that closed the OP...

it seems to me that this is exactly the type of behavior that leads other nations and religions to look upon the US and its military as "crusaders".

doesn't anyone care to comment on that?

[Texpat]

i noticed on the health care thread that your decision to move to thailand was significantly based ("weighed heavily' are the words you used) on the price of health care.

I don't remember Tex saying he couldn't afford it, but that it was a lot cheaper over here than it was there.

Precicely. In the past 1.5 years, I've had one filling replaced at 700 baht. My wife had a lady workup cholesterol, pap, mamogram etc for about 4,000 baht. Not worth filing a claim. Hardly an issue for us now, but as we get older it will likely become more and more of a burden. I have good coverage here, but its a lot cheaper to do anything here than there.

You're just digging to nowhere.

it seems to me that this is exactly the type of behavior that leads other nations and religions to look upon the US and its military as "crusaders".

That a small number of cadets, in Colorado Springs, felt treated unfairly by other USAF cadets and one daddy got fed up, called for an investigation and a panel found that they were inappropriate, but not criminal, not censured? If that's evidence of a crusade, you're delusional. The commandant has subsequently been promoted and is still active, in Korea.

Ray, I think you're the only one who views military as crusaders. What "other religions" are you talking about? The USAF contains members of every religion I've ever heard of ... wiccans, wierdos, and way-out-theres.


Were you ever beaten up in a bar by a sailor?

[raycarey]

You're just digging to nowhere.

this is what you posted...

There may soon be a new class of American expatriates, 'medical insurance exiles'.

Excellent observation.

Health care costs weighed heavily on my decision to come live in Thailand.

if you care to recant/hedge, that's fine. i can only go by what you've posted. in the end it really doesn't matter to me. i was simply wondering if you've ever reflected on the arguably tragic irony of your situation.

Ray, I think you're the only one who views military as crusaders. What "other religions" are you talking about?

you're joking, right?
right?

you don't think a significant percentage of the ME views the US military as crusaders?

Were you ever beaten up in a bar by a sailor?

nope. how about you?

The commandant has subsequently been promoted and is still active, in Korea.

which only further begs the question.....how is it possible that the US military has allowed its personnel to violate its rules regarding religion....and in fact prosper by committing these violations?

[barbaro]

it seems to me that this is exactly the type of behavior that leads other nations and religions to look upon the US and its military as "crusaders".

raycarey:
doesn't anyone care to comment on that?

Yes, I will.

It does sound bad, especially in the Middle East, and other non-Christian or other non-religious nations that have a US military presence, either voluntary or not (that presence).

[Texpat]

So what religion is the US military?

[chinthee]

So what religion is the US military?

Well, I can tell you it's not Buddhist or Muslim!

[barbaro]

So what religion is the US military?

The military is comprised of many, many, individuals that come from many geographical areas, walks of life, and backgrounds.

As you do know Texpat, there is no single religion of the US military.

And the military has recognized Wiccans and even Satanists, as it should.


But I feel, as stated above, that religion should be conducted outside of the military, period.

No need for Chaplains, and rabbie and Islamic leaders/counselers.

Unless deployed overseas, where they may not be access.

[Texpat]

There are many Muslims in the Air Force. And I've got news for you -- there are no mosques in Grand Forks or Minot, North Dakota. The only place they can go to worship is the chapel -- which serves all denominations. And there are precious few (if any) synagogues in Aomori, Japan for the Jews in uniform.
So what does the service say to these volunteers, sorry we can't acommodate your religion when we send you to these places? Bad answer. We're treated far better than that.

You would be greatly disappointed at how little servicemen discuss religion on a day-to-day basis. Its very private. The OP has framed this topic as if religion were central to their duties. Couldn't be farther from the truth.


Many (maybe most) servicemembers attend services off base/post/station at their home. But remember the average rotation is about 3-4 years. Sometimes its easier to attend on base with friends and coworkers of your faith.

Crusade: any one of the Christian military expeditions between the years 1096 and 1272 to recover the Holy land from the Moslems.

Better start bailing Ray.

[raycarey]

There are many Muslims in the Air Force.

ok great. but why are evangelical leaders in the military 'suggesting' that cadets tell these 'many muslims' that they're going to burn in hell if they don't receive jesus as their savior?

The OP has framed this discussion as if religion were central to their duties.

i disagree. but feel free to show me where.

You would be greatly disappointed at how little servicemen give a shit about religion on a day-to-day basis. Its very private.

really? someone's fibbing....is it texpat or the major?

Maj. Warren Watties led a group of 10 young, exclusively evangelical chaplains who stood shoulder to shoulder. He proudly stated that half of the cadets attended Bible studies on Monday nights in the dormitories and he hoped to increase this number from those in his audience who were about to join their ranks.

Crusade: any one of the Christian military expeditions between the years 1096 and 1272 to recover the Holy land from the Moslems.

the US invaded afghanistan and iraq and there is no end in sight to either of these occupations.....and now the US is rattling sabres and making war plans for iran..... how will history view this period?

Better start bailing Ray.

huh? what are you on about?

btw, here's a couple of questions comments you've neglected to respond to...

you don't think a significant percentage of the ME views the US military as crusaders?

i was simply wondering if you've ever reflected on the arguably tragic irony of your situation.

ok texpat that's all for me tonight.....i'll check the thread for your responses tomorrow.

at ease.

[barbaro]

There are many Muslims in the Air Force. And I've got news for you -- there are no mosques in Grand Forks or Minot, North Dakota. The only place they can go to worship is the chapel -- which serves all denominations. And there are precious few (if any) synagogues in Aomori, Japan for the Jews in uniform.

So what does the service say to these volunteers, sorry we can't acommodate your religion when we send you to these places? Bad answer. We're treated far better than that.

If these Xtians, Jews and Muslims want to practice there religion they should do it at home, in private.

Why do they need to go to a church, Mosque, or Synagogue?

Their faith should be done by themselves with at someone's home with people of the same faith.

Taxpayers should not pay for their religion.