Alcoholism: Genes and/or Environment

[barbaro]

This thread is not about Judaism or the Jewish, but about Genes and their relation to booze tolerance in alcoholism. This gene, ADH2*2 is discussed. It's interesting how some cultures of people can drink a lot, some cannot handle their booze.

Gene Discourages Alcoholism in Jews

From Center for the Advancement of Health
About.com Health's Disease and Condition content is reviewed by Steven Gans, M.D.
Study: Jews Have Fewer Problems With Alcohol Dependence

A new study suggests that genes, not religion, may help explain why Jews generally have fewer problems with alcohol than Caucasians in general.

The study findings, which appear in the journal Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research, also suggest that the protective effects of this gene may be undermined by a culture that encourages drinking.

The gene, ADH2*2 is a rare variation of ADH2, which produces a more active form of alcohol dehydrogenase, the enzyme that catalyzes the first step in alcohol metabolism. However, explains lead author Deborah Hasin, Ph.D., from Columbia University and the New York State Psychiatric Institute, "the exact reason why ADH2*2 tends to discourage heavier drinking isn't known."

"Recently, reports have shown a relatively high prevalence [approximately 20 percent] of ADH2*2 in Jewish samples ... suggesting that ADH2*2 is one of the factors explaining the low rates of alcoholism in this group," Hasin notes. Earlier research has shown that differences in religious practice and level of religiosity cannot account for these low rates.

Indeed, recent investigations have demonstrated "significant relationships between ADH2*2 and alcohol use ... in all Jewish groups studied," Hasin reports. Those with the variant gene have been seen to drink less frequently, consume less alcohol overall or have more unpleasant reactions to alcohol. Until the present study, however, the relationship between ADH2*2 and level of dependence on alcohol was not explored.

Hasin and her colleagues recruited 75 Israeli Jews aged 22-65. Trained interviewers employed a widely used questionnaire to assess each participant's current, past and lifetime level of alcohol dependence. Sixty-eight of the participants provided genetic material to test for the presence of ADH2*2.

Significantly Lower Alcoholism

The results revealed that participants with ADH2*2 had significantly lower indicators of alcohol dependence over their lifetimes.

"This finding adds to the growing body of evidence that this genetic variation has a protective effect against alcoholism among Jewish groups," Hasin concludes.

When the researchers divided the participants into three groups based on country of origin and recency of immigration, however, they found indications that the protective effect of ADH2*2 was not equally strong in every group.

The protective effect of ADH2*2 on alcohol dependence severity appeared stronger among the two more established groups of Israeli Jews, the Ashkenazis (those of European background and arrivals from Russia before 1989) and the Sephardics (those of Middle Eastern and North African background), than among more recent immigrants from the former Soviet Union.

Among those with ADH2*2, the recent Russian immigrants tended to have a history of much heavier drinking than their Sephardic and Ashkenazic counterparts. Levels of past and lifetime alcohol dependency -- but not current dependency -- were also highest among the recent Russian immigrants.

According to Hasin, one logical explanation for these findings is the fact that both genes and environment influence the development of alcohol dependence. Russia has one of the world's highest levels of alcohol consumption," she notes, "whereas Israel has one of the lowest."

Environmental (cultural) factors:

Hasin concludes, "The study's findings suggest that the recent Russian immigrants' previous exposure to the heavy-drinking environment of Russian culture overcame the protective effects of the ADH2*2 gene." Their increased vulnerability to heavy drinking was evidenced by such study measures as peak lifetime alcohol consumption levels.

The decrease in the recent arrivals' alcohol intake and dependency levels after immigration may reflect "acculturation to Israeli drinking patterns," Hasin proposes. "However," she adds, "other explanations, including a tendency to drink less as we age, cannot be ruled out."

The study was funded in part by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism.

Link: Rare Gene Discourages Alcohol Dependence Among Jews

[obsidian]

genes. nature no nuture.

[chinthee]

The native American Indians are maybe the saddest proof of nature vs. nuture. I think they have the highest incidence of alcoholism of any cultural group, maybe worldwide?

[barbaro]

And here is an article on Asians, genes, and alcohol.

Asians at risk from 'alcohol gene'


Most Caucasians have the key gene


A gene which stops some ethnic groups getting rid of an alcohol by-product may be contributing to cancer cases.
It is well known that drinking heavily increases the chances of certain cancers, particularly those of upper digestive tract.

But some ethnic groups appear more prone to these cancers.
An international research project has found that a key genetic difference can make the saliva more carcinogenic.

Its work is reported in the journal "Alcoholism: clinical and experimental research".
Alcohol is toxic, and as soon as it enters the body, the liver starts trying to get rid of it by chemically breaking it down with natural body chemicals.

The theory is that it is not the alcohol which triggers the development of cancer, but a by-product of the way the body deals with the alcohol.

Gene missing

There are two stages to the breakdown - the first chemical converts alcohol to acetaldehyde, then a second chemical turns acetaldehyde to acetate, which can be dealt with more easily by other tissues outside the liver.

Some people lack the genetic code which lets the liver make the second chemical.
This means that such people have far more acetaldehyde in their bodies than people who have the necessary gene.

As many as 50% of Chinese and Japanese lack the gene. This causes obvious symptoms when they drink like facial flushing, dizziness and nausea, caused by the excess acetaldehyde.

But if these people drink more heavily, there is more of the toxic chemical in their saliva.
The study found that in the gene-deficient Asians, acetaldehyde levels in the saliva were two to three times higher than either Caucasians, or Asians who had the gene.
The scientists believe salivary acetaldehyde can cause cancer as it passes across the tissues lining the throat.

Link & Entire: BBC News | HEALTH | Asians at risk from 'alcohol gene'

[blackgang]

I don't know about that shit, but I do know that both Indians[american] and asians do not do well in the social drinking life.
I see a lot of Thai that are alcoholic drinkers and as Eskimos, Aleutes and northern indians of Canada, who I believe are Athapascans who all migrated from Asia [siberia] many thousands of years ago can not do well in a drinking environment.
Drink is a thing that they very easily get hooked on and soon leads to death thru natural or suicide.
There are those that do not drink, but if they do then it is a quick trip to alcoholic drinking and seem that only will power keeps them from it.

It is easy not to drink at all, but hard to stop if you are alcoholic inclined and even have one.
But it does seem that certain races of people have different weakness's and it don't take long for alcohol to sort em out.

[Hootad Binky]

It is easy not to drink at all, but hard to stop if you are alcoholic inclined and even have one.

But it does seem that certain races of people have different weakness's and it don't take long for alcohol to sort em out.

Both my parents are Irish; I drank a lot in Thailand but now hardly at all. Perhaps having the gene can also help you stop drinking, if you change your environment.

[barbaro]

It is easy not to drink at all, but hard to stop if you are alcoholic inclined and even have one.

But it does seem that certain races of people have different weakness's and it don't take long for alcohol to sort em out.

Both my parents are Irish; I drank a lot in Thailand but now hardly at all. Perhaps having the gene can also help you stop drinking, if you change your environment.

That was the impression I got from the article. With the gene, once the drinking culture/environment is removed, those that had the gene had less incidences of reverting back to heavy drinking.

(At least that's what I though it said.)

[Marmite the Dog]

I think they have the highest incidence of alcoholism of any cultural group, maybe worldwide?

I thought most of them were Chinese?

[Lily]

I think they have the highest incidence of alcoholism of any cultural group, maybe worldwide

I think Australian Aboriginals may give them a run for their money.

But that has nothing to do with genes, in my opinion. It is a symptom of people who have lost hope and just cannot find a place where they fit in the world.

I think that the minorities that have had so much trouble with alcohol isn't a genetic thing, but more a lack of the social practices that the old world uses, which we have learnt and they haven't.

[blackgang]

I do not believe that at all, I know a lot of recovered alkies, The main thing that they changed was drinking and also their outlook.
Of coarse they have also distanced themselves from drunks, not the fact that they drank so much as the fact that they act like brain damaged idiots when they do drink.
It seems that with the alkie gene we set up an irritable desire for more alcohol when it ingested into our system and no power on earth can relieve the cravings, so if we don't drink then we will not have that craving.
When they brought whiskey/rum to the American Indians or off the whaling ships to the Eskimos/Aleuts they both reacted with the same cravings for alcohol and the desire for more, and if there was enough booze or hooch to last, they never hunted and gathered food for winters and therefore starved to death in great numbers, and it appears to be the same with the Aboriginals in Aust.
And it is not the fact that they are drunks that make them what they are.

It is a symptom of people who have lost hope and just cannot find a place where they fit in the world.

and is not the fact that they have lost hope, because with them when they were introduced to alcohol they were living the only life that they knew and were doing as well as anyone else that they ever knew.

How would an Eskimo when he sees his first white man even dream of a life different from anything he ever saw, heard about or even dreamed of, but his first drink of booze did something to his system that he could not handle and only made him want more of that wonderful stuff.

No one will ever convince me that anything other than a mistake in the making of some systems and not others, such as genetics, is responsible for a guy taking to drink, ruining his and his family's lives and if he can be stopped that he tries to get back what the booze took away and regain his place in his society.

[Norton]

Seems to be a high incidence of alcoholism in Russia. Many Asian ethnics in Russia but wonder if environment isn't a factor here? Cheap vodka, depression and long freezing winters with nothing else to do.

[chinthee]

^ I spent 7 of those long winters in Russia. In pure numbers, surely Russia must be the most alcoholic nation on earth. Luckily, I had not only booze to warm up with but for my little popsicle toes, I had a beautiful little half Russian half Asian bedmate as well.

[Norton]

I had a beautiful little half Russian half Asian bedmate as well.

Russian and Asian. Did she drink all your vodka?

[blackgang]

You can blame it on anything that you feel like, but that does not make it a fact, only in your own mind.

I used to drink because there was nothing else to do, drink because I was alone, or drink because I was with others, and I drank because all my friends were drinking or because they would not drink, I used to drink because it was cold outside, or hot, or wet, or dry, just any number of excuses, but the real reason that I drank was because I am an Alcoholic and I would have rather been drunk than sober, now thats the reason that anyone drinks.
But when I decided I had had enough and never ingested alcohol I found that I had other interests and never thought of having a drink, not to say that did not think of drinking in the past and the problems it had caused me.
But I could spend all winter in a remote cabin 30 miles from town up in the mountains at 49* N. and -40 deg. F. without a problem.
But it does seem that some nationality's are more prone to alcoholism than others.. and does appear to be a genetic trait in most.

[AntRobertson]

I would have rather been drunk than sober, now thats the reason that anyone drinks.

Not really, what about social drinkers? I'm entirely capable of having a few beers or wines over dinner or whilst doing something else without feeling the compulsion to get soozled off my face.

[blackgang]

Ant, the thread seems to be about a gene that protects some from alcoholism and some have it and some don't, but many excuses have been used by those that do not have that gene as is said in the OP, some new immigrants seem to have over come that gene and now are alcoholic drinkers.
So you must have that gene working, but just as others have found out, you fuk with alcohol long enough you too will be able to overcome it's protection and will end up like a lot of lawyers I know in the states,, they are outstanding members of Alcoholics anonymous today.
Myself, I never was under that genes protection as I tasted whiskey at 6 years of age and loved it and could not get enough.

[AntRobertson]

Ant, the thread seems to be about a gene that protects some from alcoholism and some have it and some don't, but many excuses have been used by those that do not have that gene as is said in the OP, some new immigrants seem to have over come that gene and now are alcoholic drinkers.

Righto, not sure I'm convinced by this whole gene theory yet however.

So you must have that gene working, but just as others have found out, you fuk with alcohol long enough you too will be able to overcome it's protection and will end up like a lot of lawyers I know in the states,, they are outstanding members of Alcoholics anonymous today.

Well personally speaking I don't mind the odd drink or two, but I can just as easily leave it as take it. The days of drinking myself silly are behind me, I'd much rather wake up in the morning with a clear head and go to the gym than lie around feeling like a bag of shite all day.

Not quite sure what point you're trying to make with mentioning lawyers though, I know plenty that are tee-totallers. Is there something that suggests they are in the higher risk grouping for alcoholics?

[blackgang]

Not quite sure what point you're trying to make with mentioning lawyers though, I know plenty that are tee-totallers. Is there something that suggests they are in the higher risk grouping for alcoholics?

Not necessarily so, but without work scheds. like some other people where they are at work all day and even eat lunch on the job it is easier for lawyers to have a 4 martini lunch and also when they finish a short stint in court to get 3 or 4 or even 2 together and go for a drink and talk over a case or something, what ever they do, but it is usually in a bar/cocktail lounge and it is easy to let it get out of hand, and to override the gene so to speak.
Not all people that drink are alkies, but some do become one if it goes to far and everyone that I know of that is in that situation will deny it is happening, no one likes to admit that he is different from his fellows and so it can become a problem very easily and it is always denied.
It will get to a point that wifey will ask, "Honey don't you think you are drinking a little to much as of late" or "Honey why do you drink so much and spend so much money and are never home to have supper with us anymore"
And the reply is always, "Why is that bitch accusing me of drinking to much, damn I support them and I am the one that has to put up with all the bullshit, Jesus christ she would drink too in my place"
or "To do this job and work with these people anyone would drink as much or more than me"

And just goes back to the old adage, You can make a pickle out of a cucumber, but can not make a cucumber out of a pickle.

And I do know lawyers from all over the states and I am friends with the lawyer in Portland Oregon that is the head of the org. that helps them and gets them into recovery and gives them someone to talk to, as a lot of professional people do not go to regular AA meetings or at least not to OPEN AA meetings but do go to CLOSED AA meetings.

[Marmite the Dog]

I'm entirely capable of having a few beers or wines over dinner or whilst doing something else without feeling the compulsion to get soozled off my face.

That must be due to the boring kunt gene that they found a few years back.

[Boon Mee]

But that has nothing to do with genes, in my opinion. It is a symptom of people who have lost hope and just cannot find a place where they fit in the world.

Lost hope! Here we go with the bleeding hearts again.
American Indians, Eskimos are some of the most advantaged folks around these days. Heard about the Casinos? Believe me, they are living 'large'...

[Hootad Binky]

One definite effect of continued, consistent heavy drinking is a delusion that one has a fun, great life; you (I) become blind to its effect on others close to me.

I heard somewhere that Asians lack the gene because they historically purified water by boiling it and making tea whereas Europeans preferred to make beer/wine, purifying it with alcohol

[barbaro]

One definite effect of continued, consistent heavy drinking is a delusion that one has a fun, great life; you (I) became blind to its effect on others close to me.

I heard somewhere that Asians lack the gene because they historically purified water by boiling it and making tea whereas Europeans preferred to make beer/wine, purifying it with alcohol

There are articles about these differences.

It also relates to meat and consumption of saturated fats.


I do believe, over time (according to scientific studies) that there is physiological adaptation over time.

E.g., my relatives come from northern Europe and Scandinavia. I think that may (but may not be) the reason why we can drink alcohol so much. Maybe; maybe not.

[Fast Eddie]

Whilst it may be the case that there are genetic factors that might make someone more susceptible to the effects of alcohol, i don't believe that it is the main reason for someone becoming an alcoholic or not.

What is there really to wonder about? Alcohol is a powerful and addictive drug, that also gives temporary pleasure to the consumer. Anyone who drinks heavily over a long period of time could be in danger of becoming an alcoholic. The difference is that most people who enjoy the effects of drinking, manage it in such a way so as not to seriously damage their health.

Those who choose not to do that, for whatever reason, escape from boredom, personal problems, an unfulfilling life, or even just simply because they have a blast when they're out getting sozzled, and are relentless in chasing more of the same experience, are in danger of crossing the line. It's like someone shooting heroin and then turning around looking for some unique genetic reason why they got addicted. There are heaps of other drugs that people can become addicted to if they abuse them, is that just down to individual genetics as well?

We all make the choice with alcohol (and other drugs) how we are going to treat it. It's a consequence of that ongoing decision that determines whether we have problems or not. Alcoholics constantly seem to want to shift the blame for their own decisions onto other uncontrollable factors so that they can take away the feeling of self guilt. Consequently we hear 'it's not my fault, it's a disease' or 'the reason why i became an alcoholic is genetic'. It's not. It's a consequence of their character and their poor choices, albeit that can be heavily influenced by the culture around them, and certainly there can be an almost imperceptible line at times between social drinking and addiction in cultures that condone it's regular use.

I love going out and getting pissed as much as the next man, but the reason that i don't do it seven days a week is because i can see the harmful effect it would have on my life and my health. If i didn't care about any of that, or ignored the future consequences of such a decision, then i'd be a potential candidate as well.

My apologies if any of what i've said doesn't sit very well with any current or ex alcoholics here, all just in my opinion.

[blackgang]

FE, what you have said is mostly true with some things that are not quite what they seem, but as a general rule, spot on.
I will say that an alkie is a master at making excuses for their behavior which can be proven wrong with so truthful converation, which is hard to do because they will just make another excuse.
No one chooses to become an alkie, but it does happen with continued use, I am a natural born alkie and was from the first drink I had, some are and some have to work at it for a time, but we all can become one if we try, knowing it or not.
When I got sober, there was no definate damage to my health or my system, and I drank heavily up til the time I quit at age 48.

E.g., my relatives come from northern Europe and Scandinavia. I think that may (but may not be) the reason why we can drink alcohol so much. Maybe; maybe not.

So are mine, But we all ended up as alcoholic drinkers, everyone that I know of were either Tee Totalers or Alkies. but no one can abuse alcohol for an indefinate amount of time without becoming an alcoholic drinker.

But the fact remains, "If you don't drink, you will not get drunk".