Thread: Who won the WWII, anyway?

Originally Posted by Looper

Where is the monster Short Stirling, the workmanlike Handley Page Halifax and the legendary Avro Lancaster?

Did you happen to notice the moon in the background? The British did not do the night raiding that was when the Americans took to the skies.

Originally Posted by Looper

the flow down effect of economic activity is what lifts people out of poverty.

So you are claiming that trickle down economics lifts people out of poverty. Right. One of the greatest economic fallacies ever pushed on the poor in America. Cut the taxes of the rich and somehow it will trickle down. Bullshit.

The rich do not create jobs it is a strong middle class that does.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Did you happen to notice the moon in the background? The British did not do the night raiding that was when the Americans took to the skies.


.

I am pretty sure that is the exact opposite of what happened. USA went with "precision" day bombing, while the brits did the night bombing.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Did you happen to notice the moon in the background? The British did not do the night raiding that was when the Americans took to the skies.

You have this one arse about tits snubs.

The merkins did the daytime bombing.

RAF Bomber Command did the night time raids.

The reason the B17 was called the flying fortress was because it was so heavily armed. This was so that it could fly with minimal fighter support during daylight hours since fighter range is limited.

The B17 was so heavily armed that its bomb carrying capacity was significantly lower than the British heavy bombers, which used night cover to deliver their payloads and so did not need to be so heavily armed.

Originally Posted by bsnub

So you are claiming that trickle down economics lifts people out of poverty. Right. One of the greatest economic fallacies ever pushed on the poor in America. Cut the taxes of the rich and somehow it will trickle down. Bullshit.

How do you explain that working class people in western countries have been livng more comfortable lives than working class people in communist countries for the last 75 years?

It is because capitalism generates much more wealth.

It may be shared unevenly but at least it gets generated in order to be shared in some proportion, unlike under communism where everybody is poor.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

I am pretty sure that is the exact opposite of what happened. USA went with "precision" day bombing, while the brits did the night bombing.

Indeed. The US had bomb aiming equipment that could only be used during the day. They lost loads of aircraft, almost stopping day raids until fighters had the range to escort them.

Originally Posted by Looper

The reason the B17 was called the flying fortress was because it was so heavily armed. This was so that it could fly with minimal fighter support during daylight hours since fighter range is limited.

That was the plan anyway - they got heavily creamed by the german fighters even though. It was only with the development of long range fighter support that they started to come into their own.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

I am pretty sure that is the exact opposite of what happened.

Originally Posted by Troy

Indeed. The US had bomb aiming equipment that could only be used during the day.

Originally Posted by Looper

The reason the B17 was called the flying fortress was because it was so heavily armed.

Good onya lads I fucked that one up. In my defense I am dyslexic.

Originally Posted by Looper

It may be shared unevenly but at least it gets generated in order to be shared in some proportion, unlike under communism where everybody is poor.

My comment was not in contrast to communism it was to your very specific statement that you made here....

Originally Posted by Looper

and the flow down effect of economic activity is what lifts people out of poverty.

That is complete horseshit as wealth never flows down from the top. When the rich collect wealth they hoard it and do not redistribute it as you implied. Only high taxation of the rich can prevent the growth of massive wealth inequality as most European nations understand unlike here in America a nation with some of the highest economic inequality in the world.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Good onya lads I fucked that one up. In my defense I am dyslexic.

Dyslexia can warn without striking.

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

A great example of revisionist history.

Usually, the history is written by the winners. In this case...

Originally Posted by Looper

How do you explain that working class people in western countries have been livng more comfortable lives than working class people in communist countries for the last 75 years?

It is because capitalism generates much more wealth.

It may be shared unevenly but at least it gets generated in order to be shared in some proportion, unlike under communism where everybody is poor.

It depends on what do you understand under "more comfortable lives". Many social advantages of those working class people - and so more comfortable live - have been unthinkable for working class people in the dream capitalism... (wondering whether your knowledge about the live conditions haven't been gained from Orwell's "1984'?)

Originally Posted by Looper

How do you explain that working class people in western countries have been livng more comfortable lives than working class people in communist countries for the last 75 years?

It is because capitalism generates much more wealth.

Is that the reason?

I'm just wondering how these capitalist countries would have fared under half a century of trade sanctions similar to those imposed on communist nations?

These communist nations are such a bad economic model that the US still felt the need to nobble them with sanctions?


....oh would you look at that, once the sanctions were lifted then China became one of the most powerful countries on the planet in a short space of time, to such an extent the great capitalists in America are now running scared and looking to hobble once again(trade wares, huawaei, fake security threats etc ...doesn't sound much like free market to me) because they can't keep up.

And, Russia aren't doing too badly either.


ps
Working class people live well in the west because their ancestors looted the rest of the world which also still gives them some geopolitical edge even to this day ...even though they offer nothing to the world other than consumption...which cannot be banked

Originally Posted by bsnub

That is complete horseshit as wealth never flows down from the top. When the rich collect wealth they hoard it and do not redistribute it as you implied.

It does flow down. Not through charity or communist redistribution but through re-investment which generates economic activity which generates jobs which distributes wealth to the working class while at the same time stoking the fires of further growth - the best form of wealth redistribution.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Many social advantages of those working class people - and so more comfortable live - have been unthinkable for working class people in the dream capitalism...

Any of the quantifiable measures of population well-being such as infant mortality, longevity, per capita GDP, average years of education shows that capitalist economies lead the way and others follow.

Originally Posted by foobar

once the sanctions were lifted then China became one of the most powerful countries on the planet in a short space of time

Nobody or their blind donkey believes that China's economic resurgence is due to the 'lifting of sanctions'. China was a humanitarian aid beneficiary from the west for decades

Their turnaround is obviously due to their abandonment of communism, their economic reforms and their embracing of free market capitalism.

Originally Posted by Looper

Any of the quantifiable measures of population well-being such as infant mortality, longevity, per capita GDP, average years of education shows that capitalist economies lead the way and others follow.

Perhaps it comes to you as "interesting (and most surprising)" fact, that in the Soviet Bloc countries you couldn't have found unemployment, homeless and by bankruptcy suffering families (and companies either), unless the countries have been "liberated" and included in the capitalist bloc - where such situations has been existent and normal for centuries...

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Another 100 years and American exceptionalism will be exposed for the BS it really is as it becomes just another normal country among many.

Everybody gets their 15 minutes or century or two of fame.

The list of has beens is pretty long.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Perhaps it comes to you as "interesting (and most surprising)" fact, that in the Soviet Bloc countries you couldn't have found unemployment, homeless and by bankruptcy suffering families (and companies either)

Newsflash for you Klondyke: Communism expired 30 years ago from economic malnutrition. Did you not get the memo?

The reason why the free market works and generates wealth is because it is a distributed and organic information processing system.

The reason communism does not work and does not generate wealth is because it is a centralised non-distributed inorganic information processing system.

Originally Posted by Looper

Newsflash for you Klondyke: Communism expired 30 years ago from economic malnutrition. Did you not get the memo?

I have to laugh when the knowledge of a life behind the Iron Curtain had been obtained from the propaganda machine from the other side of the Iron Curtain.

Just think little bit how strong the propaganda machine is nowadays - with fake news - even with the alternative media accessible to anybody. But people always believe what they want to believe.

And how the information reliance was 30 - 50 years ago?

BTW, the incorrect information flows not only in one direction (American Dream...)

BTW, that what expired 30 years ago was no Communism...

Originally Posted by Klondyke

BTW, that what expired 30 years ago was no Communism...

So the party called the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) was not Communist? Damn lying politicians.

what the hell is France doing on the coin

The point is, what the hell is Russia not doing on the coin.


"A great example of revisionist history." The coin is indeed a great example of revisionist history, although fortunately most people these days do not get their version of history from Hogans Heroes. Trump voters excepted.

Let's not beat about the bush, the only true winner of WW2 was ....certainly not my grannies chippy that got bombed.

Originally Posted by Looper

It does flow down. Not through charity or communist redistribution but through re-investment which generates economic activity which generates jobs which distributes wealth to the working class while at the same time stoking the fires of further growth - the best form of wealth redistribution.

Absolute horseshit. Like I said that is the greatest lie the devil ever told. The fallacy that giving the rich tax cuts would in someway trickle down is complete nonsense. Re-investment in what exactly? Whenever the rich get tax cuts in the US it never trickles down. Not ever. The rich consolidate their own wealth and corporations execute massive stock buy backs to raise the share prices to appease the shareholders. This does nothing to generate economic activity. Like I said the only way that you can prevent inequality is through high taxation of the wealthy. Americas economy was at its strongest in the late 1950's and early 1960's when the top income bracket was taxed at 90%. During that time period the American middle class was the strongest in its history and because of that taxation massive infrastructure projects where funded.

If we take the era of supply side aka trickle down economics that started under Reagan we can see the largest transfer of wealth in human history from the American middle class to the 1%. Trickle down is simply the fleecing of the working class by the rich.

Originally Posted by Norton

So the party called the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) was not Communist? Damn lying politicians.

A communist party and Communism are 2 different things, aren't they?

Originally Posted by Looper

Communism expired 30 years ago from economic malnutrition.

...with the mighty help of the Communist Party under leadership of Gorbatchov and Jelzin

Originally Posted by Looper

The reason why the free market works and generates wealth is because it is a distributed and organic information processing system.

Some portions of wealth are distributed to Cayman Islands, some to Food Stamps...

Originally Posted by Looper

The reason communism does not work and does not generate wealth is because it is a centralised non-distributed inorganic information processing system.

The crisis 2008 (not in the communist world) - and all the bailouts - was a rare exception.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

A communist party and Communism are 2 different things, aren't they?

Lenin was the guy who named and headed the party and the gov so reckon he was expert on what communism was all about.

Note what is currently practiced by many western nations is not democracy either.

^Lenin was the guy sent by Germans from Zurich back to Russia in order to start revolution there and not to interfere in the WWI. How foresightful...

Hence, a similarity with the WWII: because of the generous deed of Germans, the Russians did not win the War - despite their fighting and their highest casualties...

As a matter of fact, there were also others helpers:

Who financed Lenin and Trotsky?

One of the greatest myths of contemporary history is that the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was a popular uprising of the downtrodden masses against the hated ruling class of the Tsars. As we shall see, however, the planning, the leadership and especially the financing came entirely from outside Russia, mostly from financiers in Germany, Britain and the United States. Furthermore we shall see, that the Rothschild Formula played a major role in shaping these events.

This amazing story begins with the war between Russia and Japan in 1904. Jacob Schiff, who was head of the New York investment firm Kuhn, Loeb and Company, had raised the capital for large war loans to Japan. It was due to this funding that the Japanese were able to launch a stunning attack against the Russians at Port Arthur and the following year to virtually decimate the Russian fleet. In 1905 the Mikado awarded Jacob Schiff a medal, the Second Order of the Treasure of Japan, in recognition of his important role in that campaign.

Jacob Schiff was head of the New York investment firm Kuhn, Loeb and Co. He was one of the principal backers of the Bolshevik revolution and personally
financed Trotsky's trip from New York to Russia. He was a major contributor to Woodrow Wilson's presidential campaign and an advocate for passage
of the Federal Reserve Act.

Read more
Who financed Lenin and Trotsky?

Originally Posted by bsnub

Absolute horseshit. Like I said that is the greatest lie the devil ever told. The fallacy that giving the rich tax cuts would in someway trickle down is complete nonsense. Re-investment in what exactly? Whenever the rich get tax cuts in the US it never trickles down. Not ever. The rich consolidate their own wealth and corporations execute massive stock buy backs to raise the share prices to appease the shareholders. This does nothing to generate economic activity. Like I said the only way that you can prevent inequality is through high taxation of the wealthy. Americas economy was at its strongest in the late 1950's and early 1960's when the top income bracket was taxed at 90%. During that time period the American middle class was the strongest in its history and because of that taxation massive infrastructure projects where funded.

If we take the era of supply side aka trickle down economics that started under Reagan we can see the largest transfer of wealth in human history from the American middle class to the 1%. Trickle down is simply the fleecing of the working class by the rich.

The problem is the ones that generate the wealth are not the recipients. As you say trickle down economics is proven to be bullshit. The wealth distribution alone tells you that. It does work better in some European countries due to their more socialist version of capitalism. Of course change only comes with revolution. Unfortunately Until extreme wealth and greed is seen as the cancer that it is nothing will change.