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  1. #1
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    Reverse of Progress by fundamnentalism

    Lest we forget: Bygone lights shining on our dark present

    18th November 2018 QuickPress, Arab World

    Mohamed El-Doufani* writes:

    Nostalgia is often based on myths or an idealised vision of the past and, as such, is rarely a helpful illuminator of the present or guide to the future.
    But occasionally one stumbles on hard evidence of days long forgotten in the Arab world, or blurred and distorted by dysfunctional, primitive traditions and/or the venomous ideas of malicious forces among us, which shine a light on the darkness in which we currently live.
    The photographs below are snippets of the Arab world as it was once upon a time.
    Compare and contrast with scenes from, for example, contemporary Egypt with its ubiquitous hijab and its variants – a Jewish tradition rooted in Judaism and propagated by Islamists – or Libya with its bearded, gun-toting hoodlums and louts, and it won’t take you long to see how we’ve hurtled backwards, thanks to the poisons of Wahhabism, the Muslim Brotherhood, the retarded Salafists and dictatorship, which found in these poisons useful tools to rule over hapless, semi-literate, superstitious populations.
    Qur’an reciter Sheikh Mustafa Ismail and his wife. She is not wearing a veil: does that make her a non-Muslim?

    Sheikh Ahmad Hasan al-Baquri, Egypt’s Minister of Religious Endowments during 1952-59 and head of Al-Azhar University, and his daughter before the invasion of the Wahhabi ideology.

    Damascus University Medical School graduates, 1940. Men and women sitting together in modern clothes. No beards, no hiijab, niqab or any of their variants.

    In 1977 UNESCO declared that education in Iraq was the best in the Middle East and was comparable to that in Scandinavia.

    Spectators watching a football match in Basra Province, Iraq. Note how orderly and well presented everyone is.

    Yemen gives a loan to the World Bank! How times have changed, with many Yemenis now facing starvation, thanks to the Saudis, and the country riven with multiple conflicts – north vs south, tribe vs tribe, jihadists vs humans and animals.

    It’s 1946 and a boat carrying illegal European migrants in search of work and a better life in Egypt is seized in Alexandria.

    Einstein and Iraqi physicist Abd-al-Jabbar Abdallah, the first Chancellor of Baghdad University.

    It’s 1925 and Cairo wins a prize for being the most beautiful city in the world.


    I used to have a job at a calendar factory.
    I got the sack because
    I took a couple of days off.

  2. #2
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    2 of my closest now deceased friends were born in Alex which along with Cairo was a go to destination, one schoolfriend's dad was a bank officer expelled by Nasser with italian mother other took the ship to Melbourne after the Suez mess.

    The sights and scens not unlike any developed country at that time 60 years back

    Reverse of Progress by fundamnentalism-cairo-jpgReverse of Progress by fundamnentalism-alex-jpgReverse of Progress by fundamnentalism-golden-farouk-jpgReverse of Progress by fundamnentalism-fashion-jpg

    Only later the Brotherhood, The wahabis and salafist pushed women and girls back under the veil.It's purdah on the Orient excess.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Reverse of Progress by fundamnentalism-cairo-jpg   Reverse of Progress by fundamnentalism-alex-jpg   Reverse of Progress by fundamnentalism-golden-farouk-jpg   Reverse of Progress by fundamnentalism-fashion-jpg  

  3. #3
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Yes, countries change and countries go through different fashions, and different political, cultural and religious forces are at play all over the world and countries react to those in different ways. Up to them. It's what makes the world interesting.

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    The Quran has not been changed, hence the problems Islam causes throughout the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Yes, countries change

    The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (democracy, rights, liberty, opportunity and equality)...

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    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly94 View Post
    The Quran has not been changed, hence the problems Islam causes throughout the world.
    The thread title is "Reverse of Progress by fundamnentalism" so the question is, what is "progress" and who decides what exactly that is?

    Arab and Muslim countries have chosen their own courses, with significant influence, input and interference from other countries.
    As in other countries, Arab and Muslim countries are not homogenised societies.
    Nev has style

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    Quote Originally Posted by david44 View Post
    Only later the Brotherhood, The wahabis and salafist
    One must ask the question: What drove them to extremism?
    I have no doubt the British and the US had much to do with it with their heavy-handed stealing of resources (including the gifting of Palestine to European refugees).
    Freedom fighters need a catchcry to rouse the masses. What better catchcry than the creed of the great unwashed.
    Whether it be Catholicism in Northern Ireland or Santaria in Cuba (pull me up on that one, it's off the top of my head ), when a movement has need to get the people on it's side, the tried and tested methods of religious dogma work.

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    The progressives, about 5% of them are looked down on as not real Muslims. The Quran needs to be ripped apart and all the violence taken out of it, trouble with that would be there would be very little left in it

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    The problem is and always will be use of Religion a tool to drive agendas not necessarily religious in nature, been going on since the dawn of time as a tool invented my man to control. A book or story will alway be open to interpretation depending on the way the narrative is read or used contextually. I agree with Nev, change is inevitable, some good some bad it just depends on your perspective.

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly94 View Post
    The progressives, about 5% of them are looked down on as not real Muslims. The Quran needs to be ripped apart and all the violence taken out of it, trouble with that would be there would be very little left in it
    Remember they're about 600 years behind the bible. And that had its share of violent adherents (some would argue it still does).

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    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    One must ask the question: What drove them to extremism?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly94 View Post
    The progressives, about 5% of them are looked down on as not real Muslims.
    Extremism/extremists .... progressives ...

    Who is what in the Muslim world? Muslims are not all the same and there are even differences in those supporting political Islam (there are differences even between different branches of the Muslim Brotherhood) or those wanting a return to the "fundamentals" of Islam. Very few are extreme or violent. It's not about what you or they want, but on how they wish to achieve their goals (ie, violently or by non-violent means).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Yes, countries change and countries go through different fashions, and different political, cultural and religious forces are at play all over the world and countries react to those in different ways. Up to them. It's what makes the world interesting.
    Huh? What ^,... in heavens name,...could possibly be the "interesting" factor, existing within the socially regressive dynamic of any 21st. Century culture,
    ...all things of the current world "thoughtfully" considered? More akin to redundantly boring human behavior,...instead.

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    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TuskegeeBen View Post
    Huh? What ^,... in heavens name,...could possibly be the "interesting" factor, existing within the socially regressive dynamic of any 21st. Century culture,
    ...all things of the current world "thoughtfully" considered? More akin to redundantly boring human behavior,...instead.
    I'm not surprised it's over your head, Benny.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Extremism/extremists .... progressives ...

    Who is what in the Muslim world? Muslims are not all the same and there are even differences in those supporting political Islam (there are differences even between different branches of the Muslim Brotherhood) or those wanting a return to the "fundamentals" of Islam. Very few are extreme or violent. It's not about what you or they want, but on how they wish to achieve their goals (ie, violently or by non-violent means).
    Can't rework the deeply conditioned and ignorant, Nev...
    As most of what they have attained has been adopted forcibly, less learned naturally.

    Your candid attempts are admirable, among this course and crowd.
    Yet, I believe one shouldn't be bothered to readjust or spark connections that don't exist anyway.

    Very few will find their way and most certainly the greater percentage will succumb to the constrains of controlled and fabricated consciousness.
    Sad, the duped and dumbed down are the majority.

    Cheers, mate....


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    ^If you stapled your ears back, you'd be able to get your head a bit further up your own (and other posters) arses. Just 'saying.

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    Cannot really blame Wahabism on the Americans considering he preched in 1700s

    While many Europeans arrived Palestine after WW2 many arrived before, Leabanon was a French Colony and Gaza under teh British Empire.

    It is interesting in times of rapid change that social conservatives react as we can see in E Europe and Asia

    Many things that are acceptable in individual choice in the educated developed mainly democratic republics were once anathema

    Ability for all to vote for the head of state
    No capital punishment ( in case of unfixable miscarriage)
    To peacefully practice your private beliefs in private, backed by a constiutional right enforceable in court
    Habeas Corpus
    Non political courts separate from government
    Right to leave your homeland, access to passports at affordable price etc
    Right to marry freely
    Right of adults to own real estate property and intellectual property

    There are very few countries that tick all the boxes France Germany,Austria, Czech Republic Finland Ireland Greenland Iceland come to mind and the only one with a half decent climate Portugal

    In Poland Macedonia Slovakia we are seeing courts intimidated and same sex marriage and access to abortion contraception is less free

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    One must ask the question: What drove them to extremism?
    Lets not ignore this question.
    Iran was modern and forward-thinking until the Brits screwed them over their oil. Then to get some traction for reaction, Islam was used.
    No need to mention the Brits wrt Palestine and Jerusalem which stirred up a whole heap of anti-West sentiment, once again Islam the vehicle.
    Then late modern history with the US in it's pro-Israel vendettas...again stirring up (understandable) resistance and religion is again the vehicle to get the masses motivated.

    It's very easy to see the radicalism and violence of a part of Islam, but many do not want to look at the root cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david44 View Post
    Cannot really blame Wahabism on the Americans considering he preched in 1700s
    Sorry, that's sophistry. Wahabism would not have gained latter day traction had not there been resentment towards the West.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangLao View Post
    Can't rework the deeply conditioned and ignorant, Nev...
    As most of what they have attained has been adopted forcibly, less learned naturally.

    Your candid attempts are admirable, among this course and crowd.
    Yet, I believe one shouldn't be bothered to readjust or spark connections that don't exist anyway.

    Very few will find their way and most certainly the greater percentage will succumb to the constraints of controlled and fabricated consciousness.
    Sad, the duped and dumbed down are the majority.

    Cheers, mate....

  20. #20
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Wahabism would not have gained latter day traction had not there been resentment towards the West.
    The House of Saud and Wahabism are closely linked in history. Look at the history of the country, its foundation and the roles and influence of Britain and France there in the early 20th century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    The House of Saud and Wahabism are closely linked in history. Look at the history of the country, its foundation and the roles and influence of Britain and France there in the early 20th century.
    Yes. When I said "traction" I was referring to using that particular flavour of the faith to get adherants to be (what we now call) radical Islamist.
    Or maybe I'm talking out of my arse , I'm not a history buff ...I'm trying to make a point about radical Islam being instigated by Western antagonism and my historical flaws aside, I think the point is valid.
    Wahabism, whateverism in Islam would not be so violent nor so anti-West if Britain and the US had not stirred them up to be popular movements.
    Wahabism may have just been an oil-rich country that didn't allow women to drive, and who would worry too much about that? But with US and Brit shit, it got international.

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    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Or maybe I'm talking out of my arse , I'm not a history buff ...I'm trying to make a point about radical Islam being instigated by Western antagonism and my historical flaws aside, I think the point is valid.
    I don't think radical Islam was instigated by Western antagonism. As far as I recall, Sayyid Qutb is the father of radical Islam. Read his book "Milestones", which he wrote in an Egyptian prison (in 1964 I think). Nothing to do with western antagonism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Lets not ignore this question.
    Iran was modern and forward-thinking until the Brits screwed them over their oil. Then to get some traction for reaction, Islam was used.
    No need to mention the Brits wrt Palestine and Jerusalem which stirred up a whole heap of anti-West sentiment, once again Islam the vehicle.
    Then late modern history with the US in it's pro-Israel vendettas...again stirring up (understandable) resistance and religion is again the vehicle to get the masses motivated.

    It's very easy to see the radicalism and violence of a part of Islam, but many do not want to look at the root cause.
    Manny,

    You are absolutely right, they'd only been fukin themselves over at tribal level over territory and slavery until the evil Brits and west interfered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    I don't think radical Islam was instigated by Western antagonism. As far as I recall, Sayyid Qutb is the father of radical Islam. Read his book "Milestones", which he wrote in an Egyptian prison (in 1964 I think). Nothing to do with the West.
    I'm not familiar with the book.
    1964, Egyptian prison....Hmmm...are you sure he was not pissed off with Israel and the Brit's hand in Israel's creation? Or even earlier acts by the Brits in Egypt?

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    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milestones_(book)

    You can also download the book for free from the Internet. There seems to be plenty of sources.

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