Is economic growth fueled by population growth sustainable

[Hugh Cow]

We cannot continue to have endless population growth. (see link) Although it is a fuel for economic growth logic dictates that there is a sustainable population limit that the planet is capable of supporting and endless economic growth is not possible.
This means we need to look at a more sustainable population globally and a system that doesn't require endless growth. Earths resources need to be husbanded more sustainably if humans are to survive we must look at radical solutions to our current system. Population control maybe be mandatory sometime in the future together with a different economic outlook. What do TDs finest think?






https://theglobalobservatory.org/201...ation-studies/

[bsnub]

Earths resources need to be husbanded more sustainably if humans are to survive we must look at radical solutions to our current system.

Then Capitalism will need to be abolished. The real key to humanity's future lies there. Capitalism is killing the world.

[Lancelot]

Earths resources need to be husbanded more sustainably if humans are to survive we must look at radical solutions to our current system.

Then Capitalism will need to be abolished. The real key to humanity's future lies there. Capitalism is killing the world.

Any one remember how well collective farms worked for Uncle Joe and Chairman Mao? Opps, the Elites got feed, and only 10s of millions of the workers starved to death.

Bu that "model" hasn't been lost, just visit Fat Boy's peoples paradise

[bsnub]

^ I am not advocating for Communism that is not my point. My point was that Capitalism and its relentless consumption of finite resources is not sustainable. In the future most farm work will be automated anyway.

The reality is neither Capitalism nor Communism are the way forward.

[VocalNeal]

Is economic growth fueled by population growth sustainable

Isn't it metaphorically a bit like a mule train. At some point there will be more mules carrying the food than carrying the goods?

[Looper]

Earths resources need to be husbanded more sustainably if humans are to survive we must look at radical solutions to our current system. Population control maybe be mandatory sometime in the future

We have not come even remotely close to maximising the efficiency with which we can manage the earth's resources for population sustainment. There is so much scope for improvement that the human population of the earth could go up by orders of magnitude before we would have to start thinking about ultimate sustainability limits.

[Cold Pizza]

We cannot continue to have endless population growth. (see link) Although it is a fuel for economic growth logic dictates that there is a sustainable population limit that the planet is capable of supporting and endless economic growth is not possible.
This means we need to look at a more sustainable population globally and a system that doesn't require endless growth. Earths resources need to be husbanded more sustainably if humans are to survive we must look at radical solutions to our current system. Population control maybe be mandatory sometime in the future together with a different economic outlook. What do TDs finest think?

I've long believed population (over-population, IMO) is one of the most pressing problems in the world. More than a few people disagree with me.

Humans consume resources and goods.

They use things and need things that require resources (obviously).

In the US (like other countries) 71% of economic growth is driven by consumer spending.

Ridiculous.

Your post above makes sense and is rational.

Will steps be taken? No, IMO. Not at all.

[Latindancer]

No steps will be taken voluntarily. Or if they appear to be, they will be useless.

The shit is going to have to really hit the fan for anything substantial to be done.

[Passing Through]

The shit is going to have to really hit the fan for anything substantial to be done.

It has done already and nothing has happened. By some estimates, soil loss is at such a rate that we have fewer than a hundred harvests left, we'll be lucky to keep warming to 4 degrees by the end of the century, and half of all species (and there’s no particular reason to exclude humans from the unlucky half) are forecast to go extinct over the same time span. To prevent that happening requires the complete dismantling of industrial capitalism in the next couple of decades and a moral revolution unlike anything humanity has ever experienced. There's no happy ending to this story.

[thaimeme]

Fantasy and illusion.

We do fancy ourselves, don't we?

[bsnub]

^ fcuk off Jeff

[Hugh Cow]

We have not come even remotely close to maximising the efficiency with which we can manage the earth's resources for population sustainment. There is so much scope for improvement that the human population of the earth could go up by orders of magnitude before we would have to start thinking about ultimate sustainability limits.

Africa is a basket case getting worse and all our technology to date has not alleviated most of Africa's plight. Soil degradation from over farming over population and pollution is causing famine and disease in many African countries. The amount of foreign aid into Africa over the past 50 years is staggering with very few positive results. Some countries receiving food aid have been doing so for 50 years. The potential maybe there to radically improve things but to date there has been only small progress if any outside of the west and to some degree Asia.

[Looper]

^I am sure a lot of effort will go into crop efficiency research over the next century for the sake of terrestrial population sustainment.

This will also set us up nicely for extra terrestrial agriculture research - the next step in our quest for domination of the galaxy and then the universe!

[David48atTD]

Africa is a basket case getting worse and all our technology to date has not alleviated most of Africa's plight. <snip>

'Africa' is an interesting concept. To say that it a Homogeneous continent is sort of akin to saying that 'Europe' is one Continent from Greece up to Sweden ...

Take Ethiopia which was the focus of the now fameous BAND AID, in the Horn of Africa for example.

Did you realise that ... The population of Ethiopia represents 1.23 percent of the world´s total population which arguably means
that one person in every 82 people on the planet is a resident of Ethiopia Q

Bono and Bob Geldof have been accused of actually worsening the problems in Africa through their campaigns such as Live 8 and Live Aid.

The head of African Aid Action Jobs Selasie says the campaigns have made corruption and dependency on charity far worse in many areas of the continent.

He highlighted the fact that since the original Band Aid campaign the number of Africans living on handouts has increased 500%.

Also, African governments now rely on 70% of their annual budgets from foreign aid when they used to rely on only 20%.

Selasie believes that most of the problems are being caused by the Western obsession with political correctness.
He said: "Aid has failed because campaigners, charities and governments do not have the right plan and excluded African entrepreneurs
and grassroots organisations from being part of the solution.

"You can't impose change from without.
It has to come from within and we won't end poverty with handouts.
Africans need to fight corruption and work hard." Q

.
That last bolding is my emphasis.

Like the Arab Spring, true, lasting, embraced the populace change comes from within ... not from without.

[buriramboy]

If bsnub thinks there is an over population problem he could always off himself, while I appreciate this wouldn't solve the problem every small step helps.

[bsnub]

^ Oh looky its the knuckle dragging women beater. How does it feel to be the most loathed poster on the forum?

[Hugh Cow]

Then Capitalism will need to be abolished. The real key to humanity's future lies there. Capitalism is killing the world.

I agree snubs. Capitalism works fine providing you are willing to sacrifice the many for the privileged few but has basic flaws. I believe we are on the cusp of the beginning of the end of capitalism albeit as we know it.

^I am sure a lot of effort will go into crop efficiency research over the next century for the sake of terrestrial population sustainment.

This will also set us up nicely for extra terrestrial agriculture research - the next step in our quest for domination of the galaxy and then the universe!

Not sure what your taking Loop but put me down for a kilo.

[Hugh Cow]

Mods please Delete these 3. I tried but it just seems to make more babies.

[Hugh Cow]

[Hugh Cow]

[bsnub]

I believe we are on the cusp of the beginning of the end of capitalism albeit as we know it.

I would expand on that and say that humanity as at the cusp of an entirely new age. Automation and technology is going to change how we live completely in a very short time. Live is going to be so different in such a short period of time it will be hard for most to comprehend.

Also to add to your comments about Africa the situation there is building into a full fledged disaster that will boil over into Europe and other parts of the globe. Nigeria, Congo and several other nations populations are exploding at unprecedented levels.

[VocalNeal]

Some countries receiving food aid have been doing so for 50 years.

../and therein lies the problem. If others are going to give you food which fuels the wealth of the few there is no incentive to grow your own or start good agricultural practises. Add to that that some cultures are not farmers and...

(over-population, IMO) is one of the most pressing problems in the world. More than a few people disagree with me.

I think most thinking people agree there are too many people on the planet, fueled in some part by giving food to Africa. There are simply too many people on the planet.

[Hugh Cow]

I would expand on that and say that humanity as at the cusp of an entirely new age. Automation and technology is going to change how we live completely in a very short time. Live is going to be so different in such a short period of time it will be hard for most to comprehend.

We seem to be expanding knowledge and changing our way of life at an exponential rate. Already many are not coping with the current rate of change and are falling by the wayside. This will only increase as automation and AI become the rule rather than the exception. Much like hand weaving became a victim of the industrial revolution in the west.

[bsnub]

^ All that is correct and I think over the next 5-10 years some of the things that will come online will just astound some people. One of the things that will be being discussed more and more in the coming years will be a universal wage as automation really starts to ramp up.

[Cold Pizza]

^ All that is correct and I think over the next 5-10 years some of the things that will come online will just astound some people. One of the things that will be being discussed more and more in the coming years will be a universal wage as automation really starts to ramp up.

Universal wage is only possible in some countries.

Want to see an Influx "immigrants" from Latin America, Africa and the middle East?

Do universal pay.