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No sorry this is about"Peoples lives" not about any political motivation.
The fact is Allied forces have started worldwide terrorist Jungle warfare, which should of been thought of before they provided support to some nations and destroyed others.
These ill thought out operations have provided a breeding ground for Terrorism.
You are, of course, thinking of the Bush/Cheney invasion of Iraq.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
Thank you for making my point.
If America wants to mend fences with people in the Middle East, putting Bush and Cheney on trial for war crimes and executing them would be a great start along with an apology for their actions. Sadly that's less likely than a snow storm in Bangkok.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracudaOh don't talk shit, Bush was the one who fucked it up by taking out Saddam and putting a corrupt Shi'a in charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
IS was born on his watch.
Just sit back and leave the Sunni and Shi'a to duke it out, no point in getting in the firing line, they're both ungrateful bastards anyway.
Very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobR
Again, if you think the US was the only nation responsible for destabilizing the gulf region, you are dillusional.:deadhorsebig:
Don't know what that has to do with Bush / Cheney's actions. We should add treason too.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
We can add Blair to the gang, but that's for the Brits to sort out.
How could frying Bush/Chaney alone bring the ME to embrace America again? The dčep seeded hatred by extremist muslims stems from wanting all infedels to be wiped off the face of the earth due to their history of inflicting harm. This would include the feeling that all non-muslims wish to do the same to the muslim faith.
All nations who have contributed to the demise of a muslim faction are now targeted. We reap what we sow.
The coalition airforce/boots on the ground had no intelligence of this attack eh. :confused: Clear skies but the "cavalry" failed to show or was not ordered to assist, which was it this time. Too much maintenance on the kit, the weekend, religious holiday or orders not recived in time - or maybe by plan?Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
The financing, training, arming, feeding, mananging, patching up ......... of ISIS had no effect on the "victory" eh. :confused:
All top secret and classified no doubt :), or was it all published anywhere accessible?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG
Unfortunately the crusader coalition's fingerprints are all over this ISIS "threat". If you think Iraq can succeed against them all you are delusional.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
Oh I am sure the Iraqi people really appreciate the crusader coalition turning a relatively peaceful and prosperous country into a world shit hole Harry. :rolleyes:
Never said it would bring the ME to embrace America. I just want to see them frog-marched before a court of law and let the lawyers reveal all.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Bush and Chaney were not the only players in this game, so why penalize the few?
Who would you recommend?Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Maybe the leaders of the 39 countries who formed the coalition of the Gulf War for a start.
Yes, there were many countries in the coalition, and if you want to go after the leaders of them all then go ahead. What's your case. Everyone knows it was Bush Cheney who fronted the lies for “intelligence” and led the way and, oh yeah, did the actual invasion. If you want to make the case that they were all equally deserving, quit asking me to make the case for you and take it on yourself. I don’t think they were as accountable any more than I think the Emperor of Japan should be tried for the Holocaust.
I would think any country that has taken part in destabilizing the ME is in the crosshairs of the extremist muslim. Just read the news and think back a bit to the bombings in Europe, UK and elsewhere and the case is easy to make. Do the extremists hate the US? Of course they do, but this hate was not the driing force behind all the bombings. It was the fact that the bombed country dare to support action against the ME.
I would think continuing to demonize Bush and Chaney is only a drop in the buckčt. Why pick such a small part and blow it up? Your case is weak since a whole lot occured before either Bush took office to destabilize things.
My personal feeling is to have every country leave the ME alone and have only the muslim factions fight it out amongst themselves. Don't worry about it until an invasion on your own homeland is imminent.
I have no idea what your mumbling on about.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
The planning has been understood and promoted for years see DIA, now unclassified, report section 8c.
2012 Defense Intelligence Agency document: West will facilitate rise of Islamic State ?in order to isolate the Syrian regime? ? Levant Report
2012 Defense Intelligence Agency document: West will facilitate rise of Islamic State ?in order to isolate the Syrian regime? ? Levant Report
"Astoundingly, the newly declassified report states that for “THE WEST, GULF COUNTRIES, AND TURKEY [WHO] SUPPORT THE [SYRIAN] OPPOSITION… THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A DECLARED OR UNDECLARED SALAFIST PRINCIPALITY IN EASTERN SYRIA (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITION WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME…”.
The DIA report, formerly classified “SECRET//NOFORN” and dated August 12, 2012, was circulated widely among various government agencies, including CENTCOM, the CIA, FBI, DHS, NGA, State Dept., and many others.
The document shows that as early as 2012, U.S. intelligence predicted the rise of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL or ISIS), but instead of clearly delineating the group as an enemy, the report envisions the terror group as a U.S. strategic asset."
The culprits should be tried, sentenced and pauperised. Their families as well. Unfortunately how do you jail entire populations. I didn't see much rebellion against the go to war decisions just token marches.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Albright considered 5,000, 000 an acceptable number of deaths to end the Iraqi war machine. Lets vote for the top say, 100, 000, from each coalition partner country and put them in a hole in the ground for a year or two and then upon release stick a sharpened knife/stick up there arses until they bleed to death. Seems to work for ex ME/A "responsible" dictators.
^
Sounds reasonable to me, but how does that actually change what is happening in Iraq and the middle east right now.
There is no one leader in the west who has any real plan on how to defeat ISIS. This is one of the main problems when it comes to what the world should do, if anything. What would be the result if there was such a leader and they said to back off the ME and see what happens. Obtaining consensus from numerous coalition countries is much more difficult than if there were one defined leader.
Would ISIS, or whatever controlling faction then come after the world if everyone left? I don't think so, hence the fighting will go on as long as there are multiple factions of muslims trying to be the dominate one in the world. This will never happen, therefore the fighting will go on until there are no muslims left. The west just needs to realize this and then back away to let them fight it out.
Mr. G, you and I have been on different wave lengths before, and I think it has just happened again.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG
I'ii let you believe Bush and Cheney are solely to blame.:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG
Gotta keep the oil flowing though.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Milk the bastards dry first, then you'll never have to worry about them again. You can flog them old old tanks and warships every now and again so they can keep playing in their cesspit of simulated humanity.
The ones will all the money will be living in Europe, Australia or the USA by then.
Those two have become the scapgoats/whipping boys but what the mushy-headed liberals here don't want to acknowledge is their personal heros in Congress voted for the war too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
Put that in your Bong and hit it! :D
Not to worry, Iraqi PM Haider Al-Abadi has a "comprehensive plan" to liberate all of Anbar province.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/05/754.jpg
And here it is, apparently, although it doesn't look like much of a plan to me...
Statement by Council of Ministers
May 19 2015
The Council of Ministers called, in its session chaired by H.E. PM Dr. Haider Al-Abadi, for all Iraqi people to be more nationally cohesive and stand unified against Da'esh in order to protect our people in Anbar and save our families in Nineveh from these criminal groups. The Council asserted on the determination of the Iraqi government to liberate every inch of the Iraqi immaculate land from the filth of Da'esh terrorist gangs.
The Council of Ministers, after discussing the military condition, has unanimously issued the following decisions:
1) The Council of Ministers supports the call of the Commander-in-chief to liberate all the province of Anbar with the participation of Iraqi military forces, volunteers of public mobilization, and tribe fighters under the leadership of the Iraqi forces general command.
2) Calling for voluntary recruitment to add new forces in the army especially in the squads which have shortages in number including the 7th squad in the west of Anbar, in addition to terminating the contracts of escapees.
3) Emphasis on the training and readiness of the local police to be able to control the land properly after liberation.
4) Confirming the Iraqi government's obligation to recruit and arm the tribal fighters in coordination with Anbar province.
5) Honoring combatants who have persevered in the face of the terrorist attack while directing harsh penalties to the indolent who led to negative impacts in Ramadi.
6) Prosecute circulators of false rumors who aim at undermining high spirit of the citizens and combatants.
7) The Council of Ministers is committed to continue supporting the displaced people and extending necessary supplies to them.
8) The Council of Ministers calls for the International Community together with the International Coalition and the neighboring countries to support and assist Iraq in its war against terrorism with the provision of armament and supplies as well as contribution to the fund for Reconstruction and Re-stabilizing of the Devastated Areas by the terrorist gangs Da'esh.