How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

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Originally Posted by Klondyke

MH17 was really MH370 | Veterans Today

(interesting the discussion underneath)

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I am now confident in stating that there never was a flight MH17 from Schiphol, that the whole story is a great stinking pile of bovine fecal matter and the truth is so shocking and disturbing that few outside the online conspiracy folks have dared to even consider it could be true.

The plane that crashed in Ukraine was, in fact, Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 that had disappeared months earlier. The plane was full of corpses – the passengers of MH370, murdered and their bodies preserved with chemicals.

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In fairness, you are way below this class of fuckwittery. This bloke has beaten every level and hit God mode.

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Originally Posted by Neo

So, you tell me.. why the US should be allowed to out maneuver Russia, but Russia should not be allowed to out maneuver the US?

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Annexation is not political manoeuvring.

It is essentially an open and blatant and act of war.

Russia might be able tactically to get away this bollocks in its own backyard in the short term but the world will remember and in the long term Russia will pay the price.

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Originally Posted by Looper

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Originally Posted by Neo

So, you tell me.. why the US should be allowed to out maneuver Russia, but Russia should not be allowed to out maneuver the US?

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Annexation is not political manoeuvring.

It is essentially an open and blatant and act of war.

Russia might be able tactically to get away this bollocks in its own backyard in the short term but the world will remember and in the long term Russia will pay the price.

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maneuvering ... those are your own words ffs.!

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Originally Posted by Neo

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Originally Posted by Looper https://teakdoor.com/images/td_defaul...s/viewpost.gif
fear of being being outmanoeuvred politically in the Ukraine by the US

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you're just making up bullshit as you go along

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Originally Posted by Looper

Russia might be able tactically to get away this bollocks in its own backyard in the short term but the world will remember and in the long term Russia will pay the price.

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the world has already moved on apart form you who thinks its still 1812 and harry who can't find his own arse with both hands :)

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Originally Posted by Neo

maneuvering ... those are your own words ffs.!

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:confused:

I will try again.

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Originally Posted by Neo

So, you tell me.. why the US should be allowed to out maneuver Russia, but Russia should not be allowed to out maneuver the US?

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Yes, the US was involved in political manoeuvring.

In a petty tantrum Putin retaliated with what is in effect an act of war.

Putin did not out-manoeuvre the US - he spat the dummy and broke the rules of engagement instead.

He might be able to get away with this in the short term but in the long term the world will make him pay.

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Originally Posted by Looper

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Originally Posted by Neo

maneuvering ... those are your own words ffs.!

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:confused:

I will try again.

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Originally Posted by Neo

So, you tell me.. why the US should be allowed to out maneuver Russia, but Russia should not be allowed to out maneuver the US?

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Yes, the US was involved in political manoeuvring.

In a petty tantrum Putin retaliated with what is in effect an act of war.

Putin did not out-manoeuvre the US - he spat the dummy and broke the rules of engagement instead.

He might be able to get away with this in the short term but in the long term the world will make him pay.

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so the US are allowed to involve themselves in matters of Ukrainian sovereignty but Russia isn't.. ok, I get the point you're struggling to make :rolleyes:

so how about these 'rules of engagement' you keep wittering on about... do you have a link to those.. can you tell us who wrote the rules and who is the arbitrator of them..?

:chitown:

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Originally Posted by Looper

In a petty tantrum Putin retaliated with what is in effect an act of war.

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That's what he does in Crimea (or in Ukraine? or elsewhere? ) ...:confused:

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/07/2043.jpg

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Originally Posted by Neo

so how about these 'rules of engagement' you keep wittering on about...

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The rules of engagement say that since the end of the 2nd world war, which in effect was the end of the age of empires, it is no longer acceptable conduct to misappropriate the territories of other countries because you have the military might and fancy commandeering them.

Annexation is a term common to the international politics of the 19th century.

Its last gasp was in the manoeuvrings during the early 20th century haemoclysm.

It is now a museum piece and consigned to history.

Unfortunately our master of muppets Vladimir Putin doesn't seem to have studied history at school.

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Originally Posted by Klondyke

That's what he does in Crimea

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You propagandist can you address the nonsense you posted? :)

Nope..:)

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Originally Posted by Looper

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Originally Posted by Neo

so how about these 'rules of engagement' you keep wittering on about...

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The rules of engagement say that since the end of the 2nd world war, which in effect was the end of the age of empires, it is no longer acceptable conduct to misappropriate the territories of other countries because you have the military might and fancy commandeering them.

Annexation is a term common to the international politics of the 19th century.

Its last gasp was in the manoeuvrings during the early 20th century haemoclysm.

It is now a museum piece and consigned to history.

Unfortunately our master of muppets Vladimir Putin doesn't seem to have studied history at school.

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you're talking twaddle again... so where are these 'rules of engagement' ??

The 21st century started with the US tearing up the rule book on international law regading armed conflict and continues to disregard international law today. Your misty eyed bias concerning Russia taking Crimea is as anachronistic as the ludicrous prose you try to wrap it up in.

it's hemoclysm... if your going to try and be a smart arse by throwing about out dated Greek terminology at least try to spell it right

you and harry eh... what a pair of jokers :smileylaughing:

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Originally Posted by Neo

you're talking twaddle again... so where are these 'rules of engagement' ??

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They are implicit in the fact that no major powers have engaged in any such activity since the end of WWII.

Annexation was common throughout history before then.

In order for the world to prosper international relations have to be conducted within frameworks conducive to peace.

Putting and end to powerful countries taking land off weaker countries just because they have the might is one of the major strides forward that the human race made in the last 100 years.

Vladimir's little tribal land raid in the Crimea has much more serious repercussions than it would seem at first because it undoes the progress that has been made at much cost in the 20th century.

He will be made to pay a much higher price than any short term gain for cheaply trashing the advances that the species has made in the last century.

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Originally Posted by Neo

it's hemoclysm... if your going to try and be a smart arse by throwing about out dated Greek terminology at least try to spell it right

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I prefer my own spelling. It looks more British.

I am assuming the etymology is blood related.

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Originally Posted by Looper

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Originally Posted by Neo

you're talking twaddle again... so where are these 'rules of engagement' ??

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They are implicit in the fact that no major powers have engaged in any such activity since the end of WWII.

In order for the world to prosper international relations have to be conducted within frameworks conducive to peace.

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https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/07/1862.jpg

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Neo

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Originally Posted by Looper

Russia might be able tactically to get away this bollocks in its own backyard in the short term but the world will remember and in the long term Russia will pay the price.

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the world has already moved on apart form you who thinks its still 1812 and harry who can't find his own arse with both hands :)

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The world has not moved on when there are still gullible tossers like yourself that admire the "strongman" and don't see the thieving murderer.

Until it's too late.

I don't admire Putin, he's an Oligarch... and what I see is you and Looper getting all frothy at the mouth over him.

I'm here to knock big holes in your hypocritical arguments.. and it's really fucking easy.

Remember harry... when you're looking at maps, South is toward the bottom :)

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Originally Posted by Neo

I don't admire Putin... and what I see sheep. I'm just here to knock big holes in your pathetic arguments.

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Maybe you should try doing it then. I thought you were a sheep kinda guy.

:aus:

quick on the draw there harry... :)

anyway, it's getting fucking boring now, Loopers been clowned but is too dumb to realize it and you've proved once again you'd have difficulty finding your arse with both hands let alone where Crimea is on a map..

you ladies have fun with your big man crush :wave:

baaaa

We know where he's going.

:)

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

Baltics need anti-aircraft protection against Russia, Lithuania says
Baltics need anti-aircraft protection against Russia, Lithuania says | Reuters

SIAULIAI AIR BASE, Lithuania (Reuters) - NATO should permanently deploy anti-aircraft weapons in the Baltics to deter Russia, Lithuania's president said on Thursday as the United States put Patriot missiles on display after including them in an exercise in the region for the first time.

The permanent deployment of the advanced air defense system would be the next step in NATO's new deterrent in the Baltics and Poland, which includes ground troops on rotation. Moscow says it is an unjustified military build-up on its borders.

"It would be really meaningful to have such weapons in the Baltic region. It would ensure a greater security for all our countries," Lithuania's president Dalia Grybauskaite told reporters on Thursday, standing in front of Patriot missiles deployed as part of a two-week NATO exercise.

"We would gladly host them," she said of the missiles. "We are always ready".

Since Russia annexed Crimea peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 and began providing weapons and troops to separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine, NATO has stepped up its deployments in the Baltics, eastern Poland and around the Black Sea.

Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, which were once ruled from Moscow but are now part of NATO and the European Union, are set to triple their defense spending by 2018, compared to 2014, in order to deal with any threats from Russia.

But with small militaries and limited budgets, the Baltics are reliant on help from allies for advanced capabilities, including long-range anti-aircraft weapons.

(A warm invitation for a permanent stay...)

^Well they can hardly expect anything less given their reckless readiness to take the gloves off.

The soviet union is over. Communism is over. Russia backed the wrong ideology. They need to get over it and move on.

They cannot expect anything else from former soviet republics than them turning to the west for the first taste of real opportunity in several generations.

Nobody is threatening Russia just because eastern Europe is no longer under their control. They need to take a chill pill.

Sure they had a legitimate claim on Crimea. The sad thing is though that Russia probably could have got Crimea back without trashing the rules and dragging the world back to the political dark ages.

Given the political unrest, the history of Crimea and the ethnic population the whole episode could have been played out safely:- Legitimate calls for a secession referendum from the Crimean population based on history/ethnicity etc.. A couple of years of political pressure. Ukraine would have to come round and listen according to the rules. A legal referendum could have followed and a peaceful transition.

But the smash and grab knee-jerk reaction from Putin with a swift illegal annexation when he sensed Ukraine as a whole turning towards the west is a disaster for world politics and shows what a short-sighted, anachronistic, dangerous loose cannon he really is.

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Originally Posted by Looper

The sad thing is though that Russia probably could have got Crimea back without trashing the rules and dragging the world back to the political dark ages.

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Exactly. I'm sure Ukraine would have done a deal for some cheap gas.

It's not like Vlad couldn't afford to give it away eh?

:rofl:

SPECIAL REPORT-Putin's allies channelled billions to Ukraine oligarch | Reuters

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Originally Posted by looper

Nobody is threatening Russia

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https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/07/2108.jpg

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Originally Posted by Looper

The soviet union is over. Communism is over. Russia backed the wrong ideology. They need to get over it and move on.

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When two do the same it is not always the same...

When the old Breschnew invaded in 1968 Czechoslovakia - following an invitation letter from the communist leaders - world community was enraged (as a matter of fact, not the powers, they had other headaches in that time).
It was not by USSR but by a "coalition" (Warsaw Pact armies).

Now, another "coalition" is moving in an opposite direction - on a invitation letter (or hasn't been issued?) - no enrage...

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Originally Posted by Klondyke

following an invitation letter from the communist leaders

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Oh yeah. Democratically elected no doubt :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Klondyke

It was not by USSR but by a "coalition"

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A coalition of the...

Let me think of an adjective....

No, 'willing' does not spring to mind

:)

Looper, you obviously did not get my point (sorry for my English): I do not question the "willingness or unwillingness" of the powers 50 years ago but of the ones today.

Perhaps, you will better understand how the dangerous Mr. Putin can put it on:

Die of laughter (13) - Vladimir Putin Jokes
(it is also about the former soviet republics, about Ukraine, about sanctions, about Snowden, also about his admiration of Trump)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_He5xh7rK18

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Originally Posted by Klondyke

I do not question the "willingness or unwillingness" of the powers 50 years ago but of the ones today.

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I watched a little bit of Putin's comedy routine (thanks for that! - ...he should probably stick to his day job as an ex-KGB tin-pot dictator). But I do not get what point you are trying to make.

You are saying that the former eastern bloc countries, who are aligning themselves with the west when they get the opportunity now that they are out of soviet control (much to Mr. Putin's frustration), are not doing so willingly or are being coerced perhaps by malign western forces?

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Originally Posted by Looper

I watched a little bit of Putin's comedy routine

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Why not to spare more of your valuable time to watch more of that "comedy"? (or do you think that the "unpleasant" questions were pre-planned?)

It would surely enlighten you. It's not only funny and witty, but it is also very educative. Where do you get your knowledge of the world history from, anyway?

Perhaps you could advise me where I can listen to such first-hand description of contemporary politics by another power leader? (no need to be under oath).

I remember the WH press correspondences during GWB where he himself had appeared very scarcely, he had surely lot of more important things to do than to answer unpleasant questions. And when he did come for few minutes, he had a paper in front of him with (first) names and the seating positions of people allowed to ask a question.

That time there was a discovering of a newsman nobody knew him, neither his newspaper, who had a unprecedented access to WH (even not always documented), under false name. His task was to ask prepared questions that GW was able to answer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon

On other hand, there was an older lady sitting there - Helen Thomas - she was covering all presidents from JFK to Obama ("Dean of the White House Press Corps”). During GWB years she was relocated from her long time first-row chair to the last row after:

In March 2005, she confronted Bush with the proposition that “your decision to invade Iraq has caused the deaths of thousands of Americans and Iraqis” and every justification for the attack proved false.

“Why did you really want to go to war?” she demanded.

When Bush began explaining his rationale, she interjected: “They didn’t do anything to you, or to our country.”

“Excuse me for a second,” Bush replied. “They did. The Taliban provided safe haven for al-Qaeda. That’s where al-Qaeda trained.”

“I’m talking about Iraq,” she said.
Helen Thomas Dead: Pioneering White House Reporter Dies At 92 | HuffPost

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Thomas

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Originally Posted by Looper

Nobody is threatening Russia

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Really, take a look at the military hardware introduced by ameristan and it's vassal into the area in say the last 20 years.

Previously it was to defend Europe from the fake Iranian threat, now it's the fake Russian threat. But keep dreamnig.

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Originally Posted by Klondyke

“Why did you really want to go to war?” she demanded. When Bush began explaining his rationale, she interjected: “They didn’t do anything to you, or to our country.” “Excuse me for a second,” Bush replied. “They did. The Taliban provided safe haven for al-Qaeda. That’s where al-Qaeda trained.” “I’m talking about Iraq,” she said.

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If you don't find a video the sheep here won't understand it.

Not exactly the quoted exchange, but similar.
(The "clear articulation" of GWB, it has to be a real enjoyment to listen for people who dislike the Putin's "comedy"... :gwbush:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W_eZ6d1e6M

This is also nice:
Why Iraq?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLEUDmSc3h8

How is possible that the "American people" (as Bush says in almost every his sentence) allow their POTUS to say so many lies within few minutes - and then again throughout the whole 2 x 4 years?

Only one old woman (out of 300 mil.) has the guts to tell him that?

(For such they had spent the big money to select the best of the best?)

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Originally Posted by Klondyke

How is possible that the "American people" (as Bush says in almost every his sentence) allow their POTUS to say so many lies within few minutes - and then again throughout the whole 2 x 4 years?

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yeah, cuz it's only the US that has leaders that lie like that.

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Originally Posted by fred flintstone

it's only the US that has leaders that lie

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Tis true, gargle, is your friend.

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Originally Posted by OhOh

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Originally Posted by fred flintstone

it's only the US that has leaders that lie

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Tis true, gargle, is your friend.

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Google came up with this....looks a bit like Pinocchio with that pointy nose

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2013/10/5044.jpg

Ukraine’s Poroshenko strips Mikheil Saakashvili of citizenship

Mr Saakashvili, who led Georgia from 2004 to 2013, became a Ukrainian citizen in 2015 after accepting an offer from Mr Poroshenko, a university acquaintance, to help speed up reforms. He became regional governor of the strategically important Black Sea region of Odessa.

Ukraine’s state migration service said on Wednesday that Mr Poroshenko had cancelled Mr Saakashvili’s citizenship because he did not reveal criminal investigations against him in Georgia. Mr Saakashvili was already exiled from his native Georgia and stripped of citizenship there in 2015. He is currently in the US.

Kiev’s decision to remove Mr Saakashvili’s nationality comes a day after Donald Trump, US president, suggested in a tweet that Ukraine had tried to undermine his election campaign last year by backing Hillary Clinton.

https://www.ft.com/content/8e0fe436-...6-c6bd07df1a3c

(Poor Mischa, first the dangerous Mr. Putin grabs his land, now his friend Peter kicks him out, will his friend John help him to a new passport?) (ask Taksin, he knows where to apply...)

(Not the Georgia of Jimmy Carter - Gruzia of Josef Stalin)

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/07/2536.jpg

If Donald Trump is a Russian stooge, why is he sabre-rattling against Putin in Ukraine?
And does it mean he’s ceded control of Russia policy to the ‘grown-ups’?

There is no lavatory paper to be found in government buildings in Kiev. Plan ahead, locals advise, if you visit a tax office, the council or some other arm of the bureaucracy. This state of affairs is one small sign of the corruption that pervades Ukraine. Even the trifling sums spent on toilet roll are stolen by dishonest officials. Patients bribe doctors to get treatment; students bribe professors to pass exams; citizens bribe tax inspectors… actually, many people don’t bother with tax in the first place, working instead in a vast shadow economy.

So what is Trump up to? There is always the suspicion that he just makes things up from tweet to tweet. Still, the policy on Ukraine might be evidence that he is the victim of a conspiracy of lies about his links to Russia. Taken at face value, the policy certainly does not fit the narrative that he is a Russian stooge. Peace in Ukraine, then, may well depend on Trump’s mysterious relationship with Vladimir Putin.

Into this murky landscape steps the US government’s new Special Representative for Ukraine Negotiations. The Obama administration did not have such a special envoy and the man appointed now, Kurt Volker, is known as a Russia hawk. That fact alone might be seen as surprising given the prevailing narrative on Trump and the Kremlin.

He has just returned from visiting the Ukrainian side of the front line. ‘It is not a frozen conflict,’ he says. There are 1,000-1,500 ceasefire violations a day, and casualties are up 65 per cent on last year. ‘The human toll is dramatic. We’ve seen more people killed this year than in the preceding two years. This is a hot war.’

Obama wrestled with the problem of ending this war — and failed. The Russian annexation of Crimea stands, a violation of treaty and of international law. What would Trump do differently? Volker speaks about ‘making a push’ to solve the conflict and trying to ‘get the right strategic dialogue going’ with Moscow. More dramatically, the US under Trump is considering a step Obama never took: arming the Ukrainians. Volker tells me this is ‘actively being reviewed’.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/...in-in-ukraine/

Government plane with Putin took 500 km longer route when flying to G20 in Hamburg.
Security reasons.

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/07/2574.jpg

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Originally Posted by fred flintstone

Google came up with this....looks a bit like Pinocchio with that pointy nose

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OK, other than the British.

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Originally Posted by Klondyke

Government plane with Putin

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Twas just a decoy drone. The Lord, courtesy of the Chinese scientist, is transported via a quantum computer nowadays. They say time travel is just moments away.

Only one hiccup so far. Whilst testing it with an ameristani president they lost control momentarily. When they managed to retrieve the garbled bits and bytes the president had been turned into an imbecile with golden hair. Nobody has noticed so far. :)

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Originally Posted by OhOh

OK, other than the British.

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yeah right....try this throw a dart at a world map, see what you come up with.

So you agree there are no liars on Mars?