Thread: How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

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Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

US aid alone saved Russia

really?

When Britain aided the Soviet Union in World War Two

On the 70th anniversary of the German invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, Russia Now pays tribute to the vast British effort to supply the Red Army in the harshest of conditions



In a radio address on the day Adolf Hitler’s forces invaded, Churchill expressed his sympathy for the Soviet people, saying that though “no one has been a more consistent opponent of Communism than I… Any man or state who fights against Nazism will have our aid.”


Within weeks, British naval convoys began steaming through the enemy hunting grounds on the Arctic sea route to Murmansk and Archangelsk, skirting Nazi-occupied Norway and fighting a relentless battle against the elements.

Convoys moving in the winter months had to navigate in perpetual darkness, while those travelling in the summer were highly visible and exposed to sustained and co-ordinated attacks from warships, U-boats and the Luftwaffe.


In London last year, the then Russian ambassador Yury Fedotov presented awards to Arctic convoy veterans on HMS Belfast, an escort cruiser that served on the convoys and is now a permanent exhibit on the Thames.


“It’s impossible to overestimate the role played by British sailors to provide vital supply routes across the Arctic,” Mr Fedotov said. “The sailors are still remembered in Russia for their bravery and self-sacrifice.”

When Britain aided the Soviet Union in World War Two - Telegraph

You are absolutely right, sorry. I said that merely in the heat of the moment to simplify the issue to majority of readers here, especially the poster who clearly has no clue.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

US aid alone saved Russia

really?

When Britain aided the Soviet Union in World War Two

On the 70th anniversary of the German invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, Russia Now pays tribute to the vast British effort to supply the Red Army in the harshest of conditions



In a radio address on the day Adolf Hitler’s forces invaded, Churchill expressed his sympathy for the Soviet people, saying that though “no one has been a more consistent opponent of Communism than I… Any man or state who fights against Nazism will have our aid.”


Within weeks, British naval convoys began steaming through the enemy hunting grounds on the Arctic sea route to Murmansk and Archangelsk, skirting Nazi-occupied Norway and fighting a relentless battle against the elements.

Convoys moving in the winter months had to navigate in perpetual darkness, while those travelling in the summer were highly visible and exposed to sustained and co-ordinated attacks from warships, U-boats and the Luftwaffe.


In London last year, the then Russian ambassador Yury Fedotov presented awards to Arctic convoy veterans on HMS Belfast, an escort cruiser that served on the convoys and is now a permanent exhibit on the Thames.


“It’s impossible to overestimate the role played by British sailors to provide vital supply routes across the Arctic,” Mr Fedotov said. “The sailors are still remembered in Russia for their bravery and self-sacrifice.”

When Britain aided the Soviet Union in World War Two - Telegraph

Britain's Arctic Convoy Veterans Took Boycotted Seats at Moscow Parade


Mr Shelton, 89, of Edinburgh, said:

• ”Mr Cameron should have come and I feel very annoyed that he didn’t … it is petty and callous to ignore the sacrifice that was made by the 20 million Russians who died in the war.”

Last Sunday’s edition of the UK paper the Daily Mail explains that Russian President “outwitted” UK PM David Cameron who boycotted Russia’s Moscow V-Day Parade by giving his seats to British citizens, veterans of Arctic Lend-Lease convoys to the USSR. Daily Mail writes:

“As a former KGB officer, Vladimir Putin knows a thing or two about turning adversity to his advantage.
So when David Cameron snubbed his Red Square ‘Victory Day’ commemorations, the Russian leader was determined to outsmart him with a cunning propaganda initiative.
In place of the Prime Minister on the VIP podium, Putin gave pride of place to three British Arctic convoy heroes.
Ernie Kennedy, Geoff Shelton and David Craig were seated immediately behind the Russian president and alongside Chinese leader Xi Jinping.
The strategic positioning ensured that TV images that flashed around the world included the three Britons wearing their medals and Arctic convoy white berets.”

Of course Daily Mail misses the point here. The real story isn’t that of Putin “outwitting” Cameron. The real story is that told by the attending British veterans - of British government “behaving like spoilt children” - and falling onto three ordinary British citizens to jointly commemorate the victory over Nazism with Russians who had done so much to end it and were of such use to Britain in the war:

Mr Shelton, 89, of Edinburgh, said: ‘President Putin gave us the best seats there. I think he wanted to show that we were representing the UK in Mr Cameron’s absence.
‘Mr Cameron should have come and I feel very annoyed that he didn’t. It doesn’t matter what the Government thinks or what’s happening in Ukraine – it is petty and callous to ignore the sacrifice that was made by the 20 million Russians who died in the war.’
Mr Craig, 90, of Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, added: ‘The Russians have treated us a lot better than our own Government, who have just behaved like spoilt children.
‘When I watched the display of military strength, I just thought of the millions of Russians who lost their lives helping us to win the war.’

Perhaps due to having made great sacrifices themselves British veterans are able to appreciate the all-important sacrifices of the Russians and celebrate a joint victory. Sadly the pampered, Oxford-educated British PM is not capable of the same.

Britain's Arctic Convoy Veterans Took Boycotted Seats at Moscow Parade

Nice gesture, Mr Putin.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

“As a former KGB officer, Vladimir Putin...."

I have never seen a similar remark: "As a former CIA special agent - and later CIA director - G.H.W. Bush sr...."

Don't mess with Vlad!!

European Union anger at Russian travel blacklist - BBC News

European Union anger at Russian travel blacklist

The European Union has responded angrily to Russia's entry ban against 89 European politicians, officials and military leaders.

Those banned are believed to include general secretary of the EU council Uwe Corsepius, and former British deputy prime minister Nick Clegg.

Russia shared the list after several requests by diplomats, the EU said.

The EU called the ban "totally arbitrary and unjustified" and said no explanation had been provided.

Many of those on the list are outspoken critics of the Kremlin, and some have been turned away from Russia in recent months.

A Russian foreign ministry official said that the ban was a result of EU sanctions against Russia.

"Why it was precisely these people who entered into the list... is simple - it was done in answer to the sanctions campaign which has been waged in relation to Russia by several states of the European Union," the official, who was not named, told Russian news agency Tass.

Originally Posted by Looper

Originally Posted by sabang

It was churlish for western leaders to boycott this week’s Victory Parade in Moscow that commemorated the Soviet Union’s defeat of Nazi Germany 70 years ago.

Hardly churlish. It is Russia's use of its military forces for selfish and illegal territorial acquisitions which is the main subject of the international dispute.

It would have been very odd for western leaders to attend the military parade on the 9th may. This was not a parade of old soldiers in wheelchairs like Remembrance parades in the west. This was a parade of all the latest Russian military tech and hardware and a celebration of Russia's current military capability. Remembrance of the human sacrifice of veterans is just an excuse for the anachronistic and vulgar display.

Kosovo was turned into a US client state in the same way. Did you protest that ?

^I am not sure what you are talking about but I am pretty sure it did not involve the USA declaring any land which used to belong to someone else to now be the sovereign territory of the USA.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy US aid alone saved Russia really? When Britain aided the Soviet Union in World War Two On the 70th anniversary of the German invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, Russia Now pays tribute to the vast British effort to supply the Red Army in the harshest of conditions

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

You are absolutely right, sorry. I said that merely in the heat of the moment to simplify the issue to majority of readers here, especially the poster who clearly has no clue.

I wish to return to this for a bit because of my simplification of the issue Sabang pointed out.

US aid was mainly hardware, while UK provided very important intel - that history books show Stalin unfortunately mostly chose to ignore thinking it was a capitalist plot, no one knowns how many millions died because of this.

UK broke nazi Enigma encryption - that alone saved estimated 14 million lives. I've taken a look at the real Enigma machine at Royal War Museum at South Bank, (in London) which you should visit if you are interested in history.

Enigma was broken by first thing that could be called computer today, created by Alan Turing, in Bletchley Park.

All of you safely writing your opinions without fear of marching feet approaching at night should thank him and (relocated) GCHQ for protecting your freedoms, whether you appreciate it or not.

Rant section: This proves free and democratic societies will always win in the end because with freedom comes innovation that in time of war produces stronger defence, weapons and strategy.

Originally Posted by Looper

^I am not sure what you are talking about but I am pretty sure it did not involve the USA declaring any land which used to belong to someone else to now be the sovereign territory of the USA.

The flowchart looks the same.

US enemy----hard military force----referendum---US client state

Russian enemy---soft military force----referendum----Russian territory

The rest is nomenclature.

Just because the US dressed it up with better propaganda and politics doesn't make it any different.

Originally Posted by Neo

Better the devil you know huh Looper..?

Georgia's former President Mikhail Saakashvili, wanted by his country's prosecutors for embezzlement, abuse of power and politically-motivated attacks, has been appointed governor of Ukraine's Odessa region. President Petro Poroshenko personally appointed Saakashvili to the post, saying the former Georgian leader is "a friend of Ukraine." In a statement at Saakashvili's nomination in Odessa, Poroshenko said the two had known each other for 25 years, since university days.

Look at the nice new military base that Saakashvili , the American puppet lacky put in the middle of Russia.



^Looper thinks Georgia paid for that.

And then he wonders why Putin is shitting bricks when the same American puppet lackeys are talking over the Ukraine.

He wonders why Russia took control of its only warm water port.

Originally Posted by Markus

He wonders why Russia took control of its only warm water port.

It always controlled it- Sevastopol has been a vital Russian port since the 15th century. If Crimea was so important to the Ukrainian federation, they certainly stuffed that up with their Coup and neo-Nazism. Back to mother Russia now, done and dusted. The 40 or so years Crimea spent as an autonomous republic within the Ukrainian SSR, then federated Ukraine, will soon be a historical footnote.

^^So, was it done illegally?

^Through a completely illegal process.

There were plenty of other options for a black sea port with Russia's coastline. Also plenty of options for pursuing a mutually agreeable return of Crimea to Russia.

Did anyone post the video of the USA and Victoria nulands best mates nailing an ethnic russian from Ukraine to a cross before burning him alive? These nice people that the US are arming, paying, training? One of the most horrific things you could see. But of course, it was not on CNN and Bullshit broadcasting Conjob so the chicken hawks mainstream media fools on this thread would know nothing about it.

Originally Posted by Looper

^^So, was it done illegally?

^Through a completely illegal process.

There were plenty of other options for a black sea port with Russia's coastline. Also plenty of options for pursuing a mutually agreeable return of Crimea to Russia.

So now the Russians are supposed to negotiate with the American puppets and their neo Nazi militias for the return of Crimea ?

The Crimea deal was not done illegally. The Russians did not go over the maximum allowable troops as per the agreements previously. Basically Russia did to Crimea what the Americans did to Ukraine. When Kiev fell via the American led coup, the Russians reacted and had a coup of sorts in Crimea. (again without adding more troops then the maximum allowable) The new govt in Crimea carried out a referendum and the Crimeans voted to become part of Russia. The vote was not even close.

I like your stuff here Looper, especially on the gay marriage topic. But this is high stakes international politics to the eth degree. Its not as simple as Vladimir Putin being a madman. Is Putin supposed to just fold because he was outwitted by the Americans ? So that he can save face with you ? Sure there was probably a more diplomatic way of returning Crimea to Russia. But he didn't have time for that. Not with the right wing of Russia breathing down his throat.

International Renaissance Foundation

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (September 2011)
This article contains content that is written like an advertisement. Please help improve it by removing promotional content and inappropriate external links, and by adding encyclopedic content written from a neutral point of view. (March 2015) The International Renaissance Foundation (IRF) (Ukrainian: Міжнародний фонд "Відродження") is a Ukrainian NGO founded by George Soros.
It was founded in April 1990. IRF is an integral part of the Open Society Foundations which incorporates national and regional foundations in more than thirty countries around the world, primarily in Central and Eastern Europe, as well as the former Soviet Union. These foundations share a common goal of supporting educational, social and legal initiatives that promote the development and establishment of an open society.
IRF is the Ukraine's one of the largest charity organization. Its main objective is to provide financial and operational assistance to the development of an open and democratic society in Ukraine by supporting key civic initiatives in this area.
Over the period from 1990 to 2010 the International Renaissance Foundation supported numerous Ukrainian non-governmental organizations, community groups, academic and cultural institutions, publishing houses etc. in the amount of over $100 million.


100 million Is that all ?

Russian aircraft head off U.S. destroyer in Black Sea: RIA


MOSCOW Russian military aircraft were scrambled to head off a U.S. warship that was acting "aggressively" in the Black Sea, state news agency RIA reported on Saturday, but the Pentagon denied any unusual behavior.
RIA quoted an anonymous source in Russia's armed forces in Crimea as saying that the guided missile destroyer USS Ross was moving along the edge of Russia's territorial waters and heading in their direction.
"The crew of the ship acted provocatively and aggressively, which concerned the operators of monitoring stations and ships of the Black Sea Fleet," RIA quoted the source as saying.
"Su-24 attack aircraft demonstrated to the American crew readiness to harshly prevent a violation of the frontier and to defend the interests of the country."
Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez said the USS Ross was "well within international waters at all times, performing routine operations."
"The U.S. Navy operates routinely in the Black Sea, in accordance with international law," Lainez said, noting the Ross's deployment to the Black Sea had been publicly announced.

Russian aircraft head off U.S. destroyer in Black Sea: RIA | Reuters

Originally Posted by Markus

So now the Russians are supposed to negotiate with the American puppets and their neo Nazi militias for the return of Crimea ?

Another paid troll. You cant be so stupid.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Originally Posted by Markus

So now the Russians are supposed to negotiate with the American puppets and their neo Nazi militias for the return of Crimea ?

Another paid troll. You cant be so stupid.

But you can I guess..?

That quote is in response to Looper and contains a large dollop of sarcasm, read the rest of the post and put it into context.
If anyone is trolling it's Looper, I can't believe he could really be that obstinate

Originally Posted by Neo

But you can I guess..?

This entire thread is a joke. Mostly posting articles from RT and ITAR TASS.

The posters here are almost all shills for the Russian government. They swallow the party line the same way that boon mee does on the opposite side.

Lemmings are lemmings they all march off the cliffs. The people still suffer.

Europe Shocked When Russia Does To It What Europe Did To Russia

from Zerohedge today



The EU issued a press release this morning which could perhaps be summed up in 2 words - "not fair." Following the denial-of-entry by Russia of several EU politicians, Russia has released a list of 89 names who will face travel bans - of exactly the same type as EU and US enforced upon numerous Russian elites. Europe is displeased that Russia would dare do unto them as they have done unto others... "we deem this measure as totally arbitrary and unjustified," they exclaimed, adding, "we don’t have any further information on the legal basis or the criteria or the process of these decisions."

The travel bans by Russia appear to be a response to the E.U.’s imposing several rounds of sanctions on Russia for its role in destabilizing Ukraine, including asset freezes and travel bans on 150 officials.

Full European Union press release...

Statement by the EU Spokesperson on the Russian "Stop List"

In the past few months several EU politicians have been denied entry when arriving at the Russian border. The Russian authorities justified these refusals by referring to the inclusion of these individuals on a confidential "stop list".

After each of these refusals, the EU and the Member States whose nationals were affected had repeatedly requested transparency about the content of this list.

The list with 89 names has now been shared by the Russian authorities. We don't have any other information on legal basis, criteria and process of this decision. We consider this measure as totally arbitrary and unjustified, especially in the absence of any further clarification and transparency.

We are keeping in close contact with the Member States involved.

* * *
Germans are displeased...

• *GERMANY `REGRETS' RUSSIAN TRAVEL BAN LIST FOR EUROPEANS

The Brits are unhappy at the treatment too:

"if Russia thinks this action will cause the E.U. to change its position on sanctions, it is wrong,” said a spokeswoman from the British Foreign Office.

“Basically, what the Russians are doing is having a tantrum,” Malcolm Rifkind, a former British foreign secretary, told the BBC. “It shows we are making an impact because they wouldn’t have reacted unless they felt very sore at what had happened.”

* * *
Are politicians immune to hypocrisy?
As The Washington Post reports however, the Russians have their reasons...

An unnamed official from Russia’s Foreign Ministry told the Russian Interfax news agency that “it was done as a response to the campaign of sanctions that has been unleashed against Russia by some of the European Union states, with Germany at the head.”
The official also said that there is a similar list of Americans but noted, without elaboration, that the Americans had been handling the issue “more constructively than the Europeans.”

* * *
The list - for now - has not been publicly disseminated but details are leaking out...

Among those listed is Uwe Corsepius, current secretary general of the European Union council in Brussels, who is due to take over as foreign affairs advisor to German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

The document also includes Bruno Le Roux, the leader of President Francois Hollande's Socialists in parliament, Britain's former deputy prime minister Nick Clegg and former Belgian premier Guy Verhofstadt, who heads the Liberal group in the European parliament.

Poland, which has been the sternest EU critic of Russia's policy towards Ukraine, had 18 names on the list.

"For some time we've seen that Russia is not necessarily trying to mitigate tensions but rather strengthen them," a spokeswoman for Poland's government told Reuters.

Last Monday, Germany protested to Russia over its refusal to let a conservative German lawmaker, Karl-Georg Wellmann, who had called Russia a "warmonger" earlier this year, into the country.

Other countries with names on the list include Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria and Spain.