Thread: Contact lost with Malaysia Plane.

Originally Posted by thailazer

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by thailazer

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Sorry Harry, but you set yourself up from this point on.

The ACARS stopped transmitting. That is all that can be said. As soon as you "turned off", you have a predetermined mind set. It stopped transmitting - that is all we know.

It stopped transmitting data around the same time the transponder went off.
But the underlying system kept pinging the satellite for 7 hours.
That shows there was nothing wrong with the satcoms system. So why did it stop sending data?

Turned off is the most likely cause as the transponder and acars are separate systems, not to mention the also separate VHF radios..

Yep. All those systems you mention, plus several others like the HF comm need the ARINC 629 cable (similar to a LAN cable) to be intact from the cockpit to the E&E avionics bay. So... Either someone savvy turned everything off or that thin little cable got damaged.

Either someone savvy turned everything off and entered a course change into the Flight Management System or......

When does entering an enroute alternate (always a good habit) mean a pilot is nefarious? It might have been a preplanned scenario, or just a pilot into his game.... There is no evidence that supports any particular hypothesis at the moment, but everyone is entitled to their guess.

An enroute alternative without any reason, which is usually weather or requested by ATC? And without informing ATC?

I don't think so.

Lithium-ion batteries in cargo -
as we have nothing else to go on I'll say a fire from them is as likely as anything
though trying to figure anything out with these flip floping clowns is hard work ..
why didn't they reveal this cargo before ?


CHANGING RESPONSES FROM CEO
What Ahmad Jauhari said four days ago:
When asked at a press conference if there was any dangerous cargo on board, he replied: 'We had a load of mangosteens headed to China.
'It was a large quantity - about three to four tonnes of mangosteens,' he said to laughter from the media.

SHOCKER! M'sia finally admits doomed plane was carrying DANGEROUS HIGHLY FLAMMABLE CARGO

What he said today:
'We carried some lithium-ion small batteries, they are not big batteries and they are basically approved under the ICAO (The International Civil Aviation Organisation) under dangerous goods.'
Responding to a question at a press conference in Kuala Lumpur, Mr Jauhari said: 'We carried some lithium-ion small batteries, they are not big batteries and they are basically approved under the ICAO (The International Civil Aviation Organisation) under dangerous goods.
'They (lithium-ion batteries) are not dangerous goods per se, but in terms (of) they are (being) declared as dangerous goods under ICAO.'
He insisted they were checked several times to ensure they complied with the guidelines.
'Airlines do that all the time, it is not just Malaysia Airlines. These goods are being flown by many airlines as cargo anyway, (which) is based on ICAO’s ruling,' he added.

00:26 last ACARS transmission
00:38 last voice transmission
00:40 last (transponder) contact
00:41 transponder AND ADB-S off
00:49 possible voice contact
00:56 Missed expected transmission.
01:30 first automated ACARS (with satellite)

Someone want to enlighten me, last ACARS transmission [alleged] 00;26.
So when did someone enter the new flight path, if after 00;26 what reported the course change, not the ACARS system.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

00:26 last ACARS transmission
00:38 last voice transmission
00:40 last (transponder) contact
00:41 transponder AND ADB-S off
00:49 possible voice contact
00:56 Missed expected transmission.
01:30 first automated ACARS (with satellite)

Someone want to enlighten me, last ACARS transmission [alleged] 00;26.
So when did someone enter the new flight path, if after 00;26 what reported the course change, not the ACARS system.

The last ACARS transmission at 00:26 contained information that was sent back to the maintenance base (I assume Boeing) and included information that told them a new course had been executed by the FMS.

What they don't know is if that was entered into the FMS before or after the plane took off.

Latest press conference said the Chinese have new satellite images they will release later today. 22.5 meters by 13 meters apparently.

Malaysia plane search: China checks new 'debris' images





Hishammuddin Hussein was handed the information during his daily briefing

MH370 mystery

• Search widens Live
• Day of searching
• The debris
• What we know

China is investigating new satellite images of debris in the southern Indian Ocean, potentially from missing flight MH370, Malaysian officials say.

Malaysia's acting transport minister read out the news as he was handed it during his daily briefing.

The new images are from 18 March - two days after initial satellite images of possible debris - and show an object 22m by 13m, 120km from the first site.

Flight MH370 disappeared on 8 March carrying 239 people.

Malaysian officials suspect the plane, en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, was deliberately taken off course.


Angry relatives

Malaysia's Acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein broke off the question and answer segment of his briefing in Kuala Lumpur to say: "The news that I just received is that the Chinese ambassador received satellite image of floating objects in the southern corridor and they will be sending ships to verify."

He added: "Beijing is expected to make an announcement in a few hours."



Latest image taken by China's Gaofen-1 satellite




Australia is already leading a search for potential debris spotted earlier this week. The latest Chinese images were about 120km from that site




Australian authorities said one of the objects on the first satellite images was 24m in size




The first satellite images were taken on 16 March and assessed by experts


China is one of 26 nations involved in the search for flight MH370. Most of those on board the plane were Chinese nationals.

Planes and vessels are already searching the southern Indian Ocean following earlier satellite images this week that detected possible debris 2,500 km (1,550 miles) south-west of Perth in Australia.

The Xinhua state news agency said the latest satellite image was of objects about 120km from that site.

China's CCTV carried the latest image - taken by the Gaofen-1 high-resolution optical Earth observation satellite of China's National Space Administration.

The search in the Indian Ocean is being led by the Australian Maritime Safety Authority (Amsa).

It despatched six planes to the area on Saturday, to search an area roughly the size of Denmark. Additional vessels supplied by China, Japan and the United Kingdom are due to join them in the search.

The first plane returned with no success in finding debris.



The note handed to Mr Hussein. The size of the "debris" was later corrected





Relatives in Beijing continued to show their frustration, during a briefing on Saturday


Before being handed the note at his briefing, Mr Hussein said that all means were being pursued to narrow the search corridor and that planes intended to search 10,500 sq nautical miles on Saturday.

But he said the conditions were "very challenging", with strong currents and rough seas, and a tropical cyclone warning that could affect ships involved in the search.

Mr Hussein also said investigations of the plane's cargo manifest did "not show any link to anything that may have contribution to the plane's disappearance".

He also referred to the angry scenes as Malaysian officials briefed Chinese relatives in Beijing.

"Government of Malaysia, tell us the truth! Give us back our loved ones!" relatives shouted at the Lido Hotel.

Mr Hussein admitted the briefing had been "tense" and an investigation was under way to try to improve the situation.


Transcript

Mr Hussein's briefing also touched on a reported transcript of communications between the pilots of the plane that was carried in Britain's Daily Telegraph.

• How maths helped find lost Air France jet

The Telegraph's transcript showed routine communications, ending with the fateful final words of co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid: "All right, good night."

Experts say only two elements appeared of any note, although they stressed it was important not to read too much into them. One was that the final message at 01:07 about the plane's altitude - at 35,000ft - was an unnecessary repeat of a message six minutes earlier.

The other was that the loss of communication with the plane occurred at the handover point of Malaysian to Vietnamese air control.

At the press briefing, Mr Hussein said the transcript "does not indicate anything abnormal".

Another Malaysian official at the briefing said the transcript was "not accurate", without specifying what was wrong with the document.

Earlier, Australian Deputy PM Warren Truss vowed the search would continue until "further searching would be futile - and that day is not in sight".

The search has been in two distinct corridors - one stretching to the north-west of the last known location in the Malacca Straits and one to the south-west. This was based on a data "ping" apparently sent to a satellite from the missing plane.

However, on Saturday, Mr Hussein said that China, India, Pakistan, Myanmar and several other nations had informed Malaysia that analysis of their radar records had revealed no evidence of flight MH370 crossing their airspace.




http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26697048

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

00:26 last ACARS transmission
00:38 last voice transmission
00:40 last (transponder) contact
00:41 transponder AND ADB-S off
00:49 possible voice contact
00:56 Missed expected transmission.
01:30 first automated ACARS (with satellite)

Someone want to enlighten me, last ACARS transmission [alleged] 00;26.
So when did someone enter the new flight path, if after 00;26 what reported the course change, not the ACARS system.

The last ACARS transmission at 00:26 contained information that was sent back to the maintenance base (I assume Boeing) and included information that told them a new course had been executed by the FMS.

What they don't know is if that was entered into the FMS before or after the plane took off.

Thought MAL had not subscribed to the Boeing monitoring service, ACARS, monitored by ATC [VHF] and the airline, someone's not telling the truth.
Time lines all over the place. Jim

Is it only Hollywood that has clear hi-res satellite images?

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

00:26 last ACARS transmission
00:38 last voice transmission
00:40 last (transponder) contact
00:41 transponder AND ADB-S off
00:49 possible voice contact
00:56 Missed expected transmission.
01:30 first automated ACARS (with satellite)

Someone want to enlighten me, last ACARS transmission [alleged] 00;26.
So when did someone enter the new flight path, if after 00;26 what reported the course change, not the ACARS system.

The last ACARS transmission at 00:26 contained information that was sent back to the maintenance base (I assume Boeing) and included information that told them a new course had been executed by the FMS.

What they don't know is if that was entered into the FMS before or after the plane took off.

Thought MAL had not subscribed to the Boeing monitoring service, ACARS, monitored by ATC [VHF] and the airline, someone's not telling the truth.
Time lines all over the place. Jim

As I understood it, it was Rolls Royce who said that about the Engines.

Originally Posted by pickel

Is it only Hollywood that has clear hi-res satellite images?

They probably blurred it deliberately.

Don't want your enemies to know you can see the time on their watch, do you?

Another thing bothers me about this Southern Ocean thing, fuel.
Planes heavy, allegedly climbing to 45,000 feet, then flying low under radar in thick air, burning fuel like it's endless.
Why not just turn south west in the south China sea, no need fo fly back over Malaysia.

Currents in the area - from part of an AP report on the Chinese satellite pics
Source

Erik van Sebille, an oceanographer at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, said the currents in the area typically move at about one meter (yard) per second although can sometimes move faster.

Based on the typical speed, a current could theoretically move a floating object about 173 kilometers (107 miles) in two days.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

00:26 last ACARS transmission
00:38 last voice transmission
00:40 last (transponder) contact
00:41 transponder AND ADB-S off
00:49 possible voice contact
00:56 Missed expected transmission.
01:30 first automated ACARS (with satellite)

Someone want to enlighten me, last ACARS transmission [alleged] 00;26.
So when did someone enter the new flight path, if after 00;26 what reported the course change, not the ACARS system.

The last ACARS transmission at 00:26 contained information that was sent back to the maintenance base (I assume Boeing) and included information that told them a new course had been executed by the FMS.

What they don't know is if that was entered into the FMS before or after the plane took off.

Thought MAL had not subscribed to the Boeing monitoring service, ACARS, monitored by ATC [VHF] and the airline, someone's not telling the truth.
Time lines all over the place. Jim

As I understood it, it was Rolls Royce who said that about the Engines.

RR just monitors it engine for their own information.
Boeing offers a aircraft monitoring service, which you pay for.
I have no idea what the truth is, but things aren't what we are being told.
Gets any stranger and I may go for wormholes or aliens. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

00:26 last ACARS transmission
00:38 last voice transmission
00:40 last (transponder) contact
00:41 transponder AND ADB-S off
00:49 possible voice contact
00:56 Missed expected transmission.
01:30 first automated ACARS (with satellite)

Someone want to enlighten me, last ACARS transmission [alleged] 00;26.
So when did someone enter the new flight path, if after 00;26 what reported the course change, not the ACARS system.

The last ACARS transmission at 00:26 contained information that was sent back to the maintenance base (I assume Boeing) and included information that told them a new course had been executed by the FMS.

What they don't know is if that was entered into the FMS before or after the plane took off.

Thought MAL had not subscribed to the Boeing monitoring service, ACARS, monitored by ATC [VHF] and the airline, someone's not telling the truth.
Time lines all over the place. Jim

As I understood it, it was Rolls Royce who said that about the Engines.

RR just monitors it engine for their own information.
Boeing offers a aircraft monitoring service, which you pay for.
I have no idea what the truth is, but things aren't what we are being told.
Gets any stranger and I may go for wormholes or aliens. Jim

'Ere 'tis.

Malaysian Airline System Bhd. (MAS) opted out of a Boeing Co. (BA) service to collect real-time performance data from jets like Flight 370 for use in planning maintenance, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The carrier harvests the same information itself, said the person, who asked not to be identified because Flight 370 is under investigation.

Quote:
Malaysian Airline System Bhd. (MAS) opted out of a Boeing Co. (BA) service to collect real-time performance data from jets like Flight 370 for use in planning maintenance, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The carrier harvests the same information itself, said the person, who asked not to be identified because Flight 370 is under investigation.

MAL cannot harvest it if the plane does not come back.

The way i understood it was, that the unsubscribed system just phoned home now and then with very basic data.

Originally Posted by thailazer

Here's something to ponder.... A friend asked me what might have been going on as the aircraft crossed the Malay penninsula that would have kept the passengers from using their cell phones. Either they had no clue something was going on, or the hull was breached and they were too busy getting their oxygen masks on. In terrorist instances in the past, passengers were quick to start calling, and crossing over the penninsula they would have had several minutes of cell site access.

They were already dead.
Pilot depressurized the plane.

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by thailazer

Here's something to ponder.... A friend asked me what might have been going on as the aircraft crossed the Malay penninsula that would have kept the passengers from using their cell phones. Either they had no clue something was going on, or the hull was breached and they were too busy getting their oxygen masks on. In terrorist instances in the past, passengers were quick to start calling, and crossing over the penninsula they would have had several minutes of cell site access.

They were already dead.
Pilot depressurized the plane.

Definitely a possibility.

I think I've got the scenario.

Shortly into the flight, the suicidal pilot programmed a route change into the computer.

Before he could depressurise the plane, two Iranians travelling on fake passports overtook the cabin, intending to fly the plane to Afghanistan and crash it into Bagram airbase.

Meanwhile, as they tried to steer the plane North West, a group of CIA agents overwhelmed them, and steered the plane towards Diego Garcia, where the 20 chip makers were to be waterboarded.

On the way, the Lithium Ion batteries caught fire, bringing the plane crashing into the sea.

Job done.

Added: Since no-one can prove my story wrong, it must be true.

These satellite images, who's satellite and why let the Australian Government take credit.


DREW DEMPSTER
Andrew Dempster
Australia has long been something of a Blanche Dubois of satellite earth observation; keen to rub shoulders with the global space industry but ultimately dependent "on the kindness of strangers".

And like the protagonist in Tennessee Williams' A Streetcar Named Desire, that dependency makes Australia vulnerable.

Australia's size and remote geography means we rely on access to satellite-sourced Earth observation (EO) data for many critical public and commercial purposes, including agricultural monitoring, assessing the availability of clean water supplies, and responding to natural disasters.

Earth observations from space will be worth $4 billion annually to the Australian economy by 2015. Satellite-based contributions to weather forecasting alone are valued at $400 million per year.

But despite our technical and economic capability, Australia does not have, and never has had, its own satellite providing useful EO data.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

These satellite images, who's satellite and why let the Australian Government take credit.


DREW DEMPSTER
Andrew Dempster
Australia has long been something of a Blanche Dubois of satellite earth observation; keen to rub shoulders with the global space industry but ultimately dependent "on the kindness of strangers".

And like the protagonist in Tennessee Williams' A Streetcar Named Desire, that dependency makes Australia vulnerable.

Australia's size and remote geography means we rely on access to satellite-sourced Earth observation (EO) data for many critical public and commercial purposes, including agricultural monitoring, assessing the availability of clean water supplies, and responding to natural disasters.

Earth observations from space will be worth $4 billion annually to the Australian economy by 2015. Satellite-based contributions to weather forecasting alone are valued at $400 million per year.

But despite our technical and economic capability, Australia does not have, and never has had, its own satellite providing useful EO data.

Another useless journo.

Took me 10 seconds to find this on Google.

Optus (and Defence) C1

Satellite Type: Space Systems/Loral (SS/L): LS-1300
Launch Date: 11 June 2003
Location: 156° east
Design Life: 15 Years
Equipment: 24 Ku band transponders, 4 (+1) Ka band transponders, 4 X band transponders, 6 UHF transponders
Partially funded by the Australian Government (Defence Department) - Optus C1's use is shared between Defence and Telecommunications, in particular the supply of Television services to Australia. Mitsubishi Electric was the prime contractor responsible for manufacturing all the Optus C1 communications systems.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Took me 10 seconds to find this on Google. Optus (and Defence) C1 Satellite Type: Space Systems/Loral (SS/L): LS-1300 Launch Date: 11 June 2003 Location: 156° east Design Life: 15 Years Equipment: 24 Ku band transponders, 4 (+1) Ka band transponders, 4 X band transponders, 6 UHF transponders Partially funded by the Australian Government (Defence Department) - Optus C1's use is shared between Defence and Telecommunications, in particular the supply of Television services to Australia. Mitsubishi Electric was the prime contractor responsible for manufacturing all the Optus C1 communications systems.

Which is entirely unrelated to the article. A com sat does not do earth observation.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

These satellite images, who's satellite and why let the Australian Government take credit.


DREW DEMPSTER
Andrew Dempster
Australia has long been something of a Blanche Dubois of satellite earth observation; keen to rub shoulders with the global space industry but ultimately dependent "on the kindness of strangers".

And like the protagonist in Tennessee Williams' A Streetcar Named Desire, that dependency makes Australia vulnerable.

Australia's size and remote geography means we rely on access to satellite-sourced Earth observation (EO) data for many critical public and commercial purposes, including agricultural monitoring, assessing the availability of clean water supplies, and responding to natural disasters.

Earth observations from space will be worth $4 billion annually to the Australian economy by 2015. Satellite-based contributions to weather forecasting alone are valued at $400 million per year.

But despite our technical and economic capability, Australia does not have, and never has had, its own satellite providing useful EO data.

Another useless journo.

Took me 10 seconds to find this on Google.

Optus (and Defence) C1

Satellite Type: Space Systems/Loral (SS/L): LS-1300
Launch Date: 11 June 2003
Location: 156° east
Design Life: 15 Years
Equipment: 24 Ku band transponders, 4 (+1) Ka band transponders, 4 X band transponders, 6 UHF transponders
Partially funded by the Australian Government (Defence Department) - Optus C1's use is shared between Defence and Telecommunications, in particular the supply of Television services to Australia. Mitsubishi Electric was the prime contractor responsible for manufacturing all the Optus C1 communications systems.

Telecommunications, not earth observation, also not out over a big empty ocean.
Chances are it's a US satellite, seem to remember US subs using Fremantle WA.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

These satellite images, who's satellite and why let the Australian Government take credit.


DREW DEMPSTER
Andrew Dempster
Australia has long been something of a Blanche Dubois of satellite earth observation; keen to rub shoulders with the global space industry but ultimately dependent "on the kindness of strangers".

And like the protagonist in Tennessee Williams' A Streetcar Named Desire, that dependency makes Australia vulnerable.

Australia's size and remote geography means we rely on access to satellite-sourced Earth observation (EO) data for many critical public and commercial purposes, including agricultural monitoring, assessing the availability of clean water supplies, and responding to natural disasters.

Earth observations from space will be worth $4 billion annually to the Australian economy by 2015. Satellite-based contributions to weather forecasting alone are valued at $400 million per year.

But despite our technical and economic capability, Australia does not have, and never has had, its own satellite providing useful EO data.

Another useless journo.

Took me 10 seconds to find this on Google.

Optus (and Defence) C1

Satellite Type: Space Systems/Loral (SS/L): LS-1300
Launch Date: 11 June 2003
Location: 156° east
Design Life: 15 Years
Equipment: 24 Ku band transponders, 4 (+1) Ka band transponders, 4 X band transponders, 6 UHF transponders
Partially funded by the Australian Government (Defence Department) - Optus C1's use is shared between Defence and Telecommunications, in particular the supply of Television services to Australia. Mitsubishi Electric was the prime contractor responsible for manufacturing all the Optus C1 communications systems.

That's a coms satellite, not one that can provide imagery. It's also fixed in position.

Australia does not own it's own Imagery satellites but has commercial relationships to use a range of others.

Satellites and Sensors - Geoscience Australia

Current Sensors
Landsat-7 satelliteLandsat
Geoscience Australia receives and processes data from the Landsat series of satellites and has done so since the USGS launched the first of its Landsat series. Australia has been receiving this data since October 1979. Geoscience Australia no longer processes or distributes Multispectral Scanner (MSS) data.

ASTER on Terra satelliteASTER
Advanced Spaceborne Thermal Emission and Reflection Radiometer (ASTER) is a sensor onboard the Terra satellite, launched in December 1999. The Terra satellite also carries the MODIS sensor and follows a similar orbit to Landsat 7.

MODIS on AQUA satelliteMODIS
Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) is the key instrument onboard the satellites called Terra (EOS AM-1), launched on 18 December 1999, and Aqua (EOS PM-1), launched on 4 May 2002.
NOAA satelliteNOAA

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) of the USA operates the series of NOAA satellites which each carry the Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer (AVHRR) sensor.


But this in no way means that images we get are able to be tampered with. We are the satellite ground station for these birds and would have direct access.