Thread: Contact lost with Malaysia Plane.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

BTW the word is "TRACK". And the plane was never in the Western Hemisphere, so why would Western Governments be tracking it?

The Prime Meridian goes through London and Paris so this is where I would have expected the East and West hemispheres to be split rather than the picture posted.

Pedanticism over, I know the way out....

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

But various people did pick up radar tracks, that's why they shifted the search area to the Malacca Strait and beyond.

Who picked up radar tracks, Malaysian air force picked up a tract then retracted the statement.
No confirmed radar track from anyone, in an area full of commercial flights. Things getting lost in sea of maybes and unnamed sources.
Keep telling things and people start to believe the story.
Nothing I have read from a reputable agency puts the plane any where, but at it's last known position and that's no whee near Australia or Pakistan.

But the Inmarsat pings put it West of Malaysia until its last one at 08:11am.

And if you actually look at the two flight corridors and the area where this debris is being investigated.....

Last week we were told RR was getting engine data for hours after the plane vanished, RR said no we didn't, data stopped when he plane vanished.
Now we have Inmarsat signals, UK company, can't see anywhere that they have confirmed that.
Everything is unnamed sources. Jim

Originally Posted by Sailing into trouble

Depending if this is the wreckage, they will be able to gauge how far it has travelled since the Sat. picture was taken to its position when found. This should give them an estimate of the drift from the crash site. Roughly speaking about 1knot westerly current which would mean 240 miles to the west. Any floating objects which the wind moves will have travelled much further.

They only have 20 days left before the sonar pinger on the black box packs it in. Very deep and rough ocean. Unless "someone" has other Sat information, finding it will be bloody hard in the conditions as the Southern Ocean approaches winter conditions. I'd not enjoy bouncing all over the sky in a search plane and being in any type of surface vessel will not be a picnic.

Firstly, they can work backwards from where the current sighting was made, which I think is the point of the buoys - some to tell them where this debris is, and some to tell them where it came from.

Secondly, assuming they keep them, they can start going back through previous images to see where this debris came from.

Thirdly, AF447 was found long after the ELT stopped working, and in much more difficult terrain - using an ROV, so what's going on on the surface isn't really that important.

I'm convinced they will find it - but it may take a long time and a lot of money.

I'm just glad the US is not in charge of the search..........

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Last week we were told RR was getting engine data for hours after the plane vanished, RR said no we didn't, data stopped when he plane vanished.
Now we have Inmarsat signals, UK company, can't see anywhere that they have confirmed that.
Everything is unnamed sources. Jim

It has been confirmed many times by Malaysia. As i explained earlier, these companies are not spokesmen for the Airline or the Authorities. They will only release info or confirm info once MAL or the Malay Authorities announce it. Contractual obligations....

From inmarsat....Notice how it finishes???

Inmarsat statement on Malaysia Airlines flight MH370
14 March 2014: Inmarsat has issued the following statement regarding Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Routine, automated signals were registered on the Inmarsat network from Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 during its flight from Kuala Lumpur.

This information was provided to our partner SITA, which in turn has shared it with Malaysia Airlines.

For further information, please contact Malaysia Airlines.

Inmarsat statement on Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 - Inmarsat

tony is showing his sloping face

Prime Minister Tony Abbott says he did not "jump the gun" by announcing that satellite footage showed what could be debris from missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Authorities have identified two objects on satellite images almost 2,500 kilometres off the coast of Western Australia, but bad weather hampered initial searches by an RAAF Orion aircraft yesterday.
The Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA), which is coordinating the search efforts, says five aircraft are scouring the area today while a merchant ship is already in the zone and another will arrive tonight.
AMSA says the two objects on the satellite imaging have been assessed as "credible", but cautioned they could be unrelated to flight MH370.

Malaysia Airlines MH370: Tony Abbott says he didn't 'jump the gun' over possible MH370 debris - Australia Network News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Originally Posted by Sailing into trouble

Originally Posted by harry barracuda

Firstly, they can work backwards from where the current sighting was made

I think that is what I said Harry. Good point about Air France time line but I disagree about the Ocean. The Southern Ocean rarely has good weather. Even in summer it is a challenging place. I did read that the wreckage is probably already been identified as part of an aircraft since the images released where very blurry, and not the quality that modern Satellites can produce.

That the plane was in the deep was always the most likely outcome, but most of us hoped for a strange but happy ending. Devastatingly sad news for the families.

I think you missed my point. Once they've found a reasonable search area, the ROV's take over. Surface conditions are not really an issue, since it's quite calm 3000m down.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Once they've found a reasonable search area, the ROV's take over. Surface conditions are not really an issue, since it's quite calm 3000m down.

True Harry but Ships tend not to function well in Hurricane strength winds. Keeping station, trying to follow a grid pattern. Trying to keep in contact with the ocean bottom whist dealing with 60ft swell and wave height. Not to mention being able to control a submersible whilst pitching and rolling.

I think in the Air France case they waited for the summer season. In the Southern Ocean they call it the roaring forties for good reason, Summer and Winter. Just roars louder in winter.

Originally Posted by Troy

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

BTW the word is "TRACK". And the plane was never in the Western Hemisphere, so why would Western Governments be tracking it?

The Prime Meridian goes through London and Paris so this is where I would have expected the East and West hemispheres to be split rather than the picture posted.

Pedanticism over, I know the way out....

Would've been PMT (Paris Mean Time) if the coin landed the other way.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Sailing into trouble

Depending if this is the wreckage, they will be able to gauge how far it has travelled since the Sat. picture was taken to its position when found. This should give them an estimate of the drift from the crash site. Roughly speaking about 1knot westerly current which would mean 240 miles to the west. Any floating objects which the wind moves will have travelled much further.

They only have 20 days left before the sonar pinger on the black box packs it in. Very deep and rough ocean. Unless "someone" has other Sat information, finding it will be bloody hard in the conditions as the Southern Ocean approaches winter conditions. I'd not enjoy bouncing all over the sky in a search plane and being in any type of surface vessel will not be a picnic.

Firstly, they can work backwards from where the current sighting was made, which I think is the point of the buoys - some to tell them where this debris is, and some to tell them where it came from.

Secondly, assuming they keep them, they can start going back through previous images to see where this debris came from.

Thirdly, AF447 was found long after the ELT stopped working, and in much more difficult terrain - using an ROV, so what's going on on the surface isn't really that important.

I'm convinced they will find it - but it may take a long time and a lot of money.

A lot of money? Perhaps you've it it on the head.

The international media are focussed on the disappearance of a plane with evidence that it was deliberate, well planned, catching the world flatfooted, and beyond a run of the mill hijacking.

With today's tech able to discern which colour t-shirt you are wearing from 80 miles away, it's fair to assume this could not have been done without heavy duty insider knowledge and input.

But there's been no mention of what the plane was carrying, aside from passengers. Might well have been bullion, or some other high value goods worthy of such a bold operation. Large amounts of currency, gold bullion and other high value items are routinely transported around the world, often by commercial airlines.

If so, the passengers would probably be offed early on, since keeping them alive causes logistical problems and also allows things to go wrong, as is holding them for ransom. And the plane would be either prepared for ditching in deep water to disappear without trace, or concealed for now and intended to be flown to a 'safe' haven for future use.

And enough bullion to merit such an operation, could buy lots of weapons and ancillary support.

Originally Posted by leemo

But there's been no mention of what the plane was carrying, aside from passengers.

Yes there has.

Mangosteen.

Originally Posted by leemo

Might well have been bullion, or some other high value goods worthy of such a bold operation. Large amounts of currency, gold bullion and other high value items are routinely transported around the world, often by commercial airlines.

If so, the passengers would probably be offed early on, since keeping them alive causes logistical problems and also allows things to go wrong, as is holding them for ransom. And the plane would be either prepared for ditching in deep water to disappear without trace, or concealed for now and intended to be flown to a 'safe' haven for future use.

And enough bullion to merit such an operation, could buy lots of weapons and ancillary support.

LOL.

Who do you reckon as the pilot?

Andy Lau maybe.

Mark Wahlburg as co-pilot (they'd have to swap one of the Malaysians for an American to get bums on seats)

And Ben Kingsley would be handy as a baddie

Maybe Michelle Yeoh as a hostess with more than a smidgin of Martial Arts ability.

Originally Posted by Sailing into trouble

Good point about Air France time line but I disagree about the Ocean. The Southern Ocean rarely has good weather. Even in summer it is a challenging place.

The Southern Ocean and the Roaring Forties - this from The West Australian today:

'the pieces could have drifted more than 500km to the east of the crash site'

UWA's Chari Pattiaratchi says the searchers face the world's most treacherous seas, and a wreckage recovery operation would be extremely challenging.

The 23,000 square kilometre search area, about 2500km southwest of Perth, is in the body of water known as the Roaring Forties, where strong circumpolar westerly winds blow.

Waves of four metres to five metres are constant, but can swell to more than 10 metres during a storm.

“It is as hostile as it can get,” Prof Pattiaratchi told ABC radio.

“Because of the strong winds, the waves are always breaking, so it's white-capping all the time, so to distinguish between whether it's part of the debris or a wave breaking ... it is quite a challenging system.

“Water depths are up to 5km deep, so even if you find something, it's a big challenge to recover it.”

He said there were only five or so vessels in the world - remotely operated vehicles or submersibles usually tethered to a ship - that could reach such depths.

If the debris that was captured in images taken on March 16 and publicly revealed on Thursday were found to be part of the missing aircraft, the pieces could have drifted more than 500km to the east of the crash site, Prof Pattiaratchi said.

Further east - an indication of how rough it gets in summer, 3 weeks ago 25 February 2014 NZ naval vessel HMNZS Wellington -16m swells and 166km/h winds

"Hell on earth" is how a 28-year navy veteran has described conditions in the Southern Ocean which forced a scientific expedition to the sub-Antarctic islands to turn back.

The HMNZS Wellington sailed through Hurricane-strength winds and 16-metre swells yesterday, forcing it to alter its course and ultimately turn around after suffering some superficial damage.

Winds gusted to 90 knots (166kmh) as the offshore patrol vessel passed through the eye of the storm, in the vicinity of the Snares Islands, with gale-force northwesterly winds buffeting it for most of the day.

Anybody know what the white boxes mounted on short pylons on the bow of the Hoegh are for?

http://http://www.hoeghautoliners.co...ument_id=13608

Originally Posted by cyrille

Originally Posted by leemo

But there's been no mention of what the plane was carrying, aside from passengers.

Yes there has.

Mangosteen.

Originally Posted by leemo

Might well have been bullion, or some other high value goods worthy of such a bold operation. Large amounts of currency, gold bullion and other high value items are routinely transported around the world, often by commercial airlines.

If so, the passengers would probably be offed early on, since keeping them alive causes logistical problems and also allows things to go wrong, as is holding them for ransom. And the plane would be either prepared for ditching in deep water to disappear without trace, or concealed for now and intended to be flown to a 'safe' haven for future use.

And enough bullion to merit such an operation, could buy lots of weapons and ancillary support.

LOL.

Who do you reckon as the pilot?

Andy Lau maybe.

Mark Wahlburg as co-pilot (they'd have to swap one of the Malaysians for an American to get bums on seats)

And Ben Kingsley would be handy as a baddie

Maybe Michelle Yeoh as a hostess with more than a smidgin of Martial Arts ability.

Must have been chockablock with mangosteen, then, because that's what they said. Good that they made space for a few passengers.

Originally Posted by Ronin

Alternatively there could have been a scenario in the cockpit similar to the Air France 447 incident. The fact is we simply don't know.

We do know that weather was a factor in AF447 and that it was an Airbus, and that neither of those is the case here.

Originally Posted by thailazer

Anybody know what the white boxes mounted on short pylons on the bow of the Hoegh are for?

http://http://www.hoeghautoliners.co...ument_id=13608

Liferafts?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Ronin

Alternatively there could have been a scenario in the cockpit similar to the Air France 447 incident. The fact is we simply don't know.

We do know that weather was a factor in AF447 and that it was an Airbus, and that neither of those is the case here.

Yes, you are quite correct, the point I was making was the resulting confusion in the cockpit owing to the apparent erroneous instrument displays. We don't know if the crew in this incident had erroneous instrument displays but it could have been something resulting in confusion in the cockpit. I repeat we simply don't know.

No, because ACARS was turned off.

If the debris is part of the plane will be days before confirmed. Problem with aircraft is they have very little time on station. Ships on the way but takes few days to get there. Higher res satellites take time to move as well. Unfortunately the search area is of little concern to any nation so no one is really watching much.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

No, because ACARS was turned off.

Yes, and what happened afterwards? One point among many.

Originally Posted by Ronin

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

No, because ACARS was turned off.

Yes, and what happened afterwards? One point among many.

If ACARS was turned off, the problems were obviously created deliberately, don't you think?

Or do you think the pilot just wanted to do some sightseeing?

I think it was hi-jacked to Aus but never made it due to flying so low it ran out of fuel. Flying low increases fuel consumption but keeps the plane hidden on radar. Over to the next theorist.