White men not welcome

[astasinim]

FIRE chiefs were accused last night of discrimination by trying to ban white men from joining up.

They were condemned after barring white males from recruitment sessions in an attempt to boost ethnic minority and women applicants.

The bosses held five open days to attract new recruits – with four strictly limited to either women, ethnic minorities or both. They insisted they had acted lawfully. But the move sparked outrage among MPs, serving firefighters and racial equality groups.

The restricted open days were staged in the hope of making 15 per cent of staff women and three per cent ethnic minority. But Tory MP Philip Davies, who is a campaigner against political correctness, said the move by Avon Fire Service was “absolutely disgusting”. “This sort of thing just makes people’s blood boil and does more damage than good to race relations,” he said. “How would people react if women and black people were banned from an open day?”

The MP for Shipley in West Yorkshire added: “I don’t care whether the fire service is only made up of ethnic minority women – as long as they are the best people at fighting fires.

“If the Chief Fire Officer is so concerned, he should give up his job to an ethnic minority woman instead of depriving other white men of a job.”

Batook Pandya, director of the Bristol-based charity Support Against Racist Incidents, welcomed the intention to target ethnic minorities and women, but stressed an open day should be just that.

He warned restricted events risked a backlash, with people thinking they could not turn up because they were white.

“I would not want a recruitment fair for one group at the exclusion of another,” he said. “I am not worried about who saves my house or my family, providing they are the best firefighters.”

Local councillor Spud Murphy, a member of Avon Fire Authority, said: ”Surely an open day should be just that – open to everyone.” Avon Fire Service organised five open days – known as “have-a-go days” – this week, the final one going ahead today at its Bristol HQ.

Potential recruits met firefighters, tried out equipment and heard about the selection tests ahead of the application deadline on February 4.

Lasting six hours, two sessions were limited to women and ethnic minorities, one to ethnic minorities only and one to women only. Only one was open to all.

Avon Fire Service said they were trying to target minorities because up to 95 per cent of their 868 firefighters are white men.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission states that “positive discrimination” between candidates is illegal. But the fire service claims to have been engaging in “positive action” by encouraging more people from certain groups to apply, which is lawful.

Chief Fire Officer Kevin Pearson said the five open days were not discrimination because they did not involve selecting people for jobs.

He said: “I totally refute the allegation that Avon Fire Service is engaged in any form of positive discrimination. It is unlawful and we wouldn’t do it.

“We are doing what we can to encourage applicants from women and minority groups who are currently under-represented in the fire service. It is my concern to improve diversity so the fire service reflects the community it serves and we can provide the best possible service.

“But that positive action stops at the point of selection. Once someone has applied, they are selected on merit.”

The service also held six application sessions – for picking up application forms only – at fire stations in Bristol, Bath, South Gloucestershire and a youth centre.

They were open to anyone. Mr Pearson said that 98 per cent of those who picked up application forms were white males.

But a serving firefighter, who declined to be named, said targeted recruitment drives were “not helpful” as they cause tension.

He said: “It has a very negative effect on everyone. When we see people from black and ethnic communities working as a firefighter, the first thing you think is ‘Have she or he only got the job because of their minority origin?’

“It’s not helpful to them as they may also feel that this is the case. Open, across-the-board recruitment is the only way to stop this.”

The row comes two years after Avon and Somerset Police admitted that it had illegally rejected nearly 200 job applications from white men because of their race and sex.

Last year, the Daily Express revealed that police chiefs around the country are pushing for new laws allowing them to recruit more women and ethnic minority officers.

Avon Fire Service hit the headlines last October when four firefighters were reprimanded for allegedly shining torches at men involved in gay sexual activity at a beauty spot. Their bosses were later criticised for holding a conference on gay, lesbian and bisexual relations in the fire service.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...men-are-banned

[Deus Ex]

They don't accept applications from white people for the police nowadays.

This shit's been going on for a long time.

[blackgang]

well thats one thing that they have learned from the USA, shit been going on over there since 1963 and gaining speed.

[stroller]

Hmm, yet those poor discriminated against white men are still the vast majority in the fire-service, and in most well-paid jobs in the US and UK.
Should really pretend all is equal and it's the inferior Blacks and weak females fault they don't get anywhere, eh?

[Begbie]

They don't accept applications from white people for the police nowadays.

This shit's been going on for a long time.

Cobblers.

Do you intend to post something to back up this statement ?

[stroller]

Do you intend to post something to back up this statement ?

Don't be silly...don't you read the Daily Mail?

[Deus Ex]

Do you intend to post something to back up this statement?

Apart from this contained in the OP?

Avon and Somerset Police admitted that it had illegally rejected nearly 200 job applications from white men

Okay.

From Sep 06

Gloucester police has admitted breaking the law with a secret policy of 'deselecting' more than 100 potential recruits for no other reason than being white men

At the time of its 'de-selection' policy, just 2.8 per cent of Gloucestershire's population was from an ethnic minority,

Police force admits discriminating against white recruits | the Daily Mail

That's two seperate forces caught with their pants down & I suspect there's more.

More proof available upon request.

[raycarey]

Do you intend to post something to back up this statement ?

are you new here?

[Begbie]

^^Even your extremist rag doesn't say they're not recruiting whites.

[Deus Ex]

You don't meet ethnic recruitment targets by employing white people.

[Texpat]

It stinks. It smells of exclusion of many in order to meet some feel-good criteria that shows they don't discriminate. It's bullshit.

I want my fire and police department to discriminate. Discriminate among all candidates to select the best force -- regardless of color, religion or pooviness. If the best are all females, or all white or half albinos, so be it.

Ever look at university selection criteria? It's even more maddening. Same for military recruiting.

[November Rain]

Amazing. Like it matters who is putting out your house fire or saving your life. Surely every one of us would want the fittest, best candidates for the job, regardless of ethnicity or gender. Affirmative action is counter-productive. The best people should get the job. Full stop.

[astasinim]

Even your extremist rag doesn't say they're not recruiting whites.

So if it was reported in the Times, would it have made a more credible story worthy of discussion?

The fact that these kind of things are going on in our public services is disgusting. Positive discrimination is exactly that. "Discrimination". I thought we were supposed to be moving on from all this. The reason given for these separate open days is so that the individuals do not feel intimidated by the white males, even though, should they pass the requirements, they will have to work with said individuals.
Imo based based on speaking with "under represented people", they are not too interested in a job/career with the fire service for various reasons such as, its a lowly job (although this attitude is slowly changing), or quite simply they couldnt see them selves going into a burning building, dealing with dead bodies or cutting people out of cars with limbs missing/hanging off.
As has already been stated, recruitment should be based on the ability of the individual, and not the colour of their skin, sex, or sexuality. All these government agendas do is further create a divide in our society.

[Deus Ex]

It is in the Times

Fire chief denies job bias to women - Times Online

[AntRobertson]

As has already been stated, recruitment should be based on the ability of the individual, and not the colour of their skin, sex, or sexuality. All these government agendas do is further create a divide in our society.

Totally agree with that. But it's a certainty that people with the suitable skills and qualifications have been passed over in the past owing to the colour of their skin, sex, or sexuality. Don't know that two 'wrongs' make a right but hey, there you have it.

And of course there's no automatic reason to exclude the so-called "minority applicants" right off the bat as not being suitable.

[AntRobertson]

White men not welcome (Daily Mail Headline)
Fire chief denies job bias to women (Times Headline)

Sensationalism!?! What sensationalism??

[blackgang]

If you pass over whites/males to hire blacks/females it is still discrimination.

They did that to my oldest son in the IUOE apprenticeship program, even tho he was not an apprentice but was a certified weldor but had to enter the union thru that program, but they wouldn't take him because he was not a minority and we were crying for weldors, so the next day he went to the job and since there had been an order for weldors in the hall for a week, he was hired "off the bank" and they had to take his money for a full union book.

[stroller]

Do you intend to post something to back up this statement?

Apart from this contained in the OP?

Have you read the OP?

...
That's two seperate forces caught with their pants down & I suspect there's more.

More proof available upon request.

"Daily Mail" - am I good or what?
This does not prove that "They don't accept applications from white people for the police nowadays."
You simply made a false statement. What is false about it is the generalisation, it is a pity to spoil a potentially valuable topic with such hyperbole.

So if it was reported in the Times, would it have made a more credible story worthy of discussion?

It certainly would. But the point was a different one: DE was vastly exaggerating, even "the extremist rag" does not go as far as he does.

[Deus Ex]

it is a pity to spoil a potentially valuable topic with such hyperbole

My point is a valid one, it's just not articulated very well.

Maybe not all white people are being rejected, but the fact remains that they are.

[Deus Ex]

Stroller - looks like it's you who's got the wrong end of the stick

White men not welcome28-01-2008 04:19 AMastasinimthats exactly the point

[Boon Mee]

Totally agree with that. But it's a certainty that people with the suitable skills and qualifications have been passed over in the past owing to the colour of their skin, sex, or sexuality. Don't know that two 'wrongs' make a right but hey, there you have it.

There we have what?
Typical bleeding-heart liberal crap. A totally snort-worthy response in the nth degree!
By your childish 'logic', the next thing you'd be touting is that 'merkins should have to pay reparation money to decendants of slaves?

[AntRobertson]

There we have what?

A stunning display of your inability to read something with both eyes open.

By your childish 'logic', the next thing you'd be touting is that 'merkins should have to pay reparation money to decendants of slaves?

You invent a position, attribute it to me, attack me on it, and expect me to defend myself. Even though it's not my position.

... At least you had the 'childish logic' part right I suppose.

[Marmite the Dog]

Employment law in the UK states that companies and organisations must employ a certain percentage of people from ethnic minority groups. While this is good in theory, it can and does backfire as seen with the Fire Brigade in the OP and as witnessed first hand by myself, when my ex-wife was looking to hire and to make the numbers add up she was told by HR that she had to employ someone from a minority group. She managed to hire someone who was 'ok', but wasn't allowed to hire, in her opinion, the best person for the job.

What would the situation be if you (as a member of society's majority group) knew that you were not hired because the position was given to someone less able because of the colour of their skin?

It's all good and well having these laws, but it's no good if there aren't enough qualified/able people from the 3 or 4% of the UK population who are regarded as minorities.

[stroller]

It's all good and well having these laws, but it's no good if there aren't enough qualified/able people from the 3 or 4% of the UK population who are regarded as minorities.

This is the crux of the matter, and has been since the '80s.

[Marmite the Dog]

This is the crux of the matter, and has been since the '80s.

Does that mean you're going to green me...?