Greece slits its wrists.

[Bangyai]

Police clash with strikers as EU seeks more cuts in budget crisis


Protesters and police clashed in Greece yesterday as a strike against government cuts turned violent amid signs that the EU is planning to demand even greater sacrifices.
Most of the country ground to a halt with an estimated two million workers joining a general strike called by unions angry at austerity measures to rein in a 12.7 per cent budget deficit and catch up on years of vital reforms in months.
And as delegations from the European Commission and International Monetary Fund arrived in Athens to comb through Greece’s accounts, EU officials warned that extra savings amounting to at least ¤2 billion (£1.7 billion) were likely to be demanded as early as next month.
In a further worrying sign, the rating agency Standard & Poor’s signalled that it could downgrade Greece’s sovereign credit status further next month in a move that would make it even harder to raise funds to keep up debt repayments.



“We work very hard and get paid very little. We have seen our taxes go up and our income go down — enough is enough,” said Vasilis Tsangas, a trainee lawyer taking part in the 30,000-strong protest in the capital.
“The corrupt politicians and the rich who don’t pay their taxes made this mess. They should pay for it, not the ordinary workers,” added Angelike Pavlopoulou, a virologist at the Athens Cancer Hospital, who was also taking part in the demonstration.
Scuffles broke out when a group of hooded extremists clashed with riot police, who in turn fired teargas and used pepper spray to disperse them.
Air, rail and maritime transport were virtually stopped while Athens metro and bus lines ran a skeleton service to allow strikers to get to the protest in the city centre.
The strike shut down schools, government offices and courtrooms, and disrupted banks, hospitals and state-owned companies. There was also a news blackout from Greek media after the strike received backing from the national journalists’ union.
Protesters in Athens chanted from loudhailers and beat drums, while many held banners and placards with slogans against capitalism. “The crisis should be paid for by the plutocracy,” read one banner. Another one called for “Permanent and steady jobs for all”.
Another 7,000 people joined a protest in Salonika, Greece’s second city. Despite the scale of the strike, recent public opinion polls showed that more than six out of ten Greeks support the austerity plans of George Papandreou’s Socialist Government.
He has announced two rounds of austerity measures, including a rise in the pension age from 61 to 63, a net public sector pay freeze, a crackdown on tax evasion and tax rises on fuel, tobacco, alcohol and property.
He has also set out a plan to reduce the deficit from 12.7 per cent to the EU target of 3 per cent by 2012. EU ministers have warned that if the sums do not add up by next month, he should also raise VAT.
The Prime Minister seems to be enjoying a honeymoon period after winning the elections last October and discovering that the economic crisis was far worse than admitted by the outgoing conservative administration.
“The majority of Greek people support the Government in its effort to introduce reforms because there is a feeling that enough is enough and politicians should get to grips with reform and end corruption,” said Charles Grant, the head of the Centre for European Reform. “I fear that by the summer, people will stop feeling as they do now that reform is necessary.”
Fury in Greece at recent criticism and allegations in foreign media that they masked their debts to ensure eurozone entry boiled over into attacks on Italy and Germany. “You simply put some amounts of money in the next year . . . it is what everybody did and Greece did it to a lesser extent than Italy for example,” Theodoros Pangalos, the Deputy Prime Minister, told the BBC. He also took issue with Germany’s stance on the Greek crisis, saying that Athens had not received ¤70 billion in compensation for the economic impact of the Nazi occupation during the Second World War.
“They took away the Greek gold that was at the Bank of Greece, they took away the Greek money and they never gave it back. This is an issue that has to be faced sometime in the future,” he said. “I don’t say they have to give back the money necessarily, but they have at least to say thanks.”
Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, put her foot down at an EU summit to stop talk of a bailout for Greece. Andreas Peschke, a German Foreign Ministry spokesman, said that Germany had paid more than ¤4.4 billion in war reparations and compensation for slave workers, adding: “A discussion of the past is not of great help in resolving Greece’s problems.”The atmosphere soured further when the cover of the German magazine Focus showed a statue of Venus making an obscene gesture, under the headline “Swindlers in the European family”, bringing an official complaint from the Greek Government.

Clashes as strike brings Greece to standstill over austerity measures - Times Online - contains video




Well, if they can't swallow a bitter pill now they'll be chewing on a large boulder soon enough. This is the sort of reaction everyone expected and will just make a bail out an even remoter dream.
I can't help thinking that if the U.K. ever has to introduce such austerity measures then we'll see the same reaction. Like taking sweets from a spoilt child.
The hordes of long term unemployed will protest when their job ( collecting their giro ) becomes a casualty of economics.

[English Noodles]

^The people in the UK have been paying for everyone elses problems for years. For the majority in the UK, it is all give and no take. The EU was the worst thing to have happend to the UK in the past 100 years.

[Butterfly]

The UK was the worst thing to have happend to the EU in the past 100 years.

fixed

[mr Fred]

Greece is a cancer patient. It's been smoking 60 a day for the last 10 years and now it's blaming the ambulance crew and kicking the doctor in the balls in an attempt to keep smoking it's fags.
There is even serious talk it could bring down the Euro if they don't sort out or sod off soon.

[TSR2]

Greece has long been a basket case, pre EU entry it did not matter, now the rest of the members are picking up the tab.

Its always been corrupt , a lot of Black Market trade,

the government always has had problems collecting taxes,

and yes like Italy fiddled their Budget A/Cs both pre and after EU entry,

[panama hat]

The people in the UK have been paying for everyone elses problems for years.

So says the SUN

For the majority in the UK, it is all give and no take.

So says the Mirror

The EU was the worst thing to have happend to the UK in the past 100 years.

So says <insert populist rag>

Oh! Reality.:

Germany, the EU's biggest country, is the biggest net contributor overall

fire.pppl.gov/eu_budget_061605.pdf

Only six member states at present give more than they receive from the EU - they are France, Germany, Britain, Austria, Sweden and the Netherlands.

Q&A: the EU budget | World news | guardian.co.uk

It is the €3bn a year that Britain claws back from Brussels to compensate for that fact that it gets very little, comparatively, in terms of agricultural subsidies from the infamous common agricultural policy

Q&A: the EU budget | World news | guardian.co.uk

And the list goes on and on . . . poor Britain . . . standing alone and supporting everyone else. Always. In every manner. BRUSSELS IS TELLING US HOW MUCH MEAT HAS TO BE IN OUR PIES!!!!

Same flaccid arguments as with immigration . . . 'The Hordes are invading the UK!!! wHY DON'T THEY GO ELSEWHERE!!!'

Guess what . . . they do. And in greater numbers.

The EU was the worst thing to have happend to the UK in the past 100 years.

1952 Great Smog of 1952 London experiences the worst air pollution event in British history. 12,000 killed and 100,000 made ill by its

1953 North Sea flood of 1953 307 were killed in the United Kingdom, in the counties of Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex.

2003 2003 European heat wave 2,139 people killed in the hottest summer on record. 38.5 °C (101.3 °F) was recorded in Kent

I guess World War I and World War II were mere pinpricks . . .

[Bangyai]

Greek rescue in danger as deputy prime minister attacks 'Nazi' Germany

Greece has greatly damaged its chances of an EU bail-out by lashing out at Germany over war-time atrocities and accusing Italy of cooking its books to hide public debt.



By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor
Published: 8:44PM GMT 24 Feb 2010
Comments 123 | Comment on this article


Link to this video

The escalating dispute came as a general strike in Greece spilled over into violent clashes between hooded youths and riot police in Athens. Chants of "burn the banks" are a foretaste of tensions once austerity measures bite in earnest later this year.
Public and private sector unions joined forces to bring the country to a standstill for 24 hours, halting flights, trains, and shipping, and shutting schools and hospitals.


Theodoros Pangalos, deputy prime minister, said Germany had no right to reproach Greece for anything after it devastated the country under the Nazi occupation, which left 300,000 dead. "They took away the gold that was in the Bank of Greece, and they never gave it back. They shouldn't complain so much about stealing and not being very specific about economic dealings," he told the BBC.
Twisting the knife further, he said the current crop of EU leaders were of "very poor quality" and had botched this month's crisis summit in Brussels. "The people who are managing the fortunes of Europe were not up to the task," he said.
One banker said the situation was surreal. "How can they call the Germans incompetent Nazis and still expect a bail-out?"
Mr Panagalos has gone even further than premier George Papandreou, who said Greece had become a "guinea pig" for squabbling eurocracts playing power games.
Athenian rhetoric has confirmed fears in North Europe that the ruling PASOK party is still in denial about the crisis and will not deliver on promises. The insults have caused bitterness in Germany, increasing the possibility that Europe's paymaster will lose patience and leave Greece to its fate after all.
Hans-Werner Sinn, head of Germany's IFO economic institute, said Athens was holding Euroland to ransom, threatening to set off mayhem if there is no bail-out. "Greece should never have entered the euro zone because they did not qualify and they are now blackmailing other European countries via the euro. It's not for the EU to help Greece. We have an institution that is very experienced in bailing-out activities: the IMF," he said.
Dr Sinn said Europe should call Greece's bluff. If the euro falls, so much the better. "The euro is overvalued anyway. It is way out of line, and a weaker euro would be quite useful for Europe to stimulate exports."
Otmar Issing, former doyen of the European Central Bank, echoed the view in Germany's Bundestag on Wednesday, warning that a Greek rescue would "open the floodgates" for serial bail-outs and destroy EMU discipline. "The crisis is made in Greece. It is the result of bad policy, not outside forces like an earthquake."
Edgy investors have begun to question whether the EU really does have a support package up its sleeve. Spreads on 10-year Greek bonds over German Bunds rose to 332 basis points.
Greece's problems are mounting by the day. Fitch Ratings downgraded four of the largest Greek banks on Tuesday, fearing a double hit from the EU-imposed fiscal tightening – 10pc of GDP over three years – and withdrawal of ECB stimulus. Wealthy Greeks have reportedly shifted large sums to Cyprus, eroding the Greek deposit base.
Investors fear austerity protests could spread in Europe. Portuguese unions have called a general strike for early March. Spanish unions held marches in Madrid and Barcelona on Tuesday over pensions, but turnout was low.
The EU has always found ways to master crises over the last 60 years, and will most likely do so again, but this one feels different to EU veterans. Germany's top court has left doubts about the legality of any bail-out. There is deep resistance in both Germany and Holland to calls for an EU fiscal authority or debt union – a quantum leap in EU integration.
Such a move would imply an open-ended guarantee for over €3trillion in Club Med debt, and a violation of the political contract behind EMU. Bavarian leader Edmund Stoiber once famously derided warnings that the euro would leave German taxpayers on the hook for foreigners as no more likely than "a famine in Bavaria". Pledges come back to haunt.


Oh dear , oh dear ...... what next ?

[TSR2]

Oh now I see

It,s not us greasy corrupt Greeks that is the problem , it,s you fckg Germans from 60 years ago,

That said , will you twat,s bail us out, please , for fcks sake please

[larvidchr]

Net contributors to the EU in the period from 2007 - 2013 are -

Open Europe estimates for EU-27 budget for 2007-2013 in billion euros (€)

Austria -8.5

Cyprus -0.1

Denmark -7.2

Finland -3.7

France -51

Germany -86

Italy -46

Netherlands -24

Sweden -11

United Kingdom -57


When we look at it so we see who pays/ looses most pr capita, it looks like this- So the Brits are not that bad of and only nr. 6 on that list.



Austria -1024

Cyprus -128

Denmark -1322

Finland -701

France -805

Germany -1045

Italy -778

Netherlands -1467

Sweden -1207

United Kingdom -937


Now Greece on the other Hand-


Greece +25
And pr capita +2238


Link- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_...European_Union

[TSR2]

Guess what . . . they do. And in greater numbers.

Apart from me ,who does,

Those illegal immigrants that they do catch are from eastern europe and the middle East, loads more waiting in France to jump on trucks,

bound for the UK ,

wonder why

[English Noodles]

the Brits are not that bad of and only nr. 6 on that list.

Oh, this time around, what about the last 15 years or so?

This will tell you what was going on.


Fact check: Britain's EU rebate

THE CLAIM


The French and British disagree about the rebate

Prime Minister Tony Blair has stood firm in his defence of the UK rebate, the discount the UK receives on its contribution to the European Union budget.
France is leading European calls for the UK rebate to be abolished, as the European Union's budget negotiations begin.
Mr Blair has rejected calls for Britain to make a "gesture of solidarity" with other EU nations by renegotiating the rebate.
"First of all, Britain has been making a gesture, because over the past 10 years, even with the British rebate, we have been making a contribution to Europe two-and-a-half times that of France," he said. "Without the rebate it would have been 15 times as much as France."
EU REBATE: BACKGROUND

All EU countries contribute to the EU budget, and in return benefit from EU spending in their countries.
Because the bulk of the EU budget is spent on supporting farmers' incomes, countries with a large agricultural sector (like Spain, Portugal and Greece) generally get more back than they put in.
Large countries like Britain and Germany are net contributors to the EU budget, while Italy and France are broadly neutral.
However, in 1984 Britain negotiated a reduction of two-thirds in its net contribution, to be paid by other EU members, on the grounds that as a relatively poor member state it paid too much and received relatively little in return.
Now the other EU members, including the 10 new members mainly drawn from former communist states in Eastern Europe, want to abolish or reduce that rebate, on the grounds that Britain is no longer one of the poorer member states, and support for agriculture is a diminishing part of the EU budget.
EU REBATE: THE FACTS

Britain's central argument is that if it did not receive the rebate, its contribution would be unfairly high.
The relative contributions of member states to the EU vary considerably from year to year.

In 2003, the latest year in which official figures are available, France paid 15.15bn euros into the EU coffers, but received 13.43bn euros in return, making a net payment of about 1.7bn euros. This 1.7bn euros figure includes a 1.6bn contribution to the UK rebate.
Britain paid 9.97bn euros into the EU budget but received 6.22bn euros in return, so it made a net contribution of about 3.8bn euros. This figure would have been much bigger, but for the 5.2bn euros the UK received as a rebate, one third of which came from France.
So- hypothetically speaking - if the UK did not get a rebate, then France's contribution to the EU would be just 100m euros while the UK's contribution would be 9bn euros.
France's contribution to the UK rebate is large because Germany, Austria, the Netherlands and Sweden have negotiated a 75% reduction in their share of rebate contributions. So Italy and France together pay more than half of the cost of the UK rebate.
The UK government prefers to calculate the net cost of EU membership over a longer period.


The Treasury says that over the nine years between 1995 and 2003, the French net contribution to the EU totalled 13bn euros, while the UK paid net contributions of 35bn euros.
The Treasury argues that if the UK had not received a rebate, it would have paid a total of 67bn euros, while if France had not paid a rebate contribution of 8.5bn euros, then it would have paid in just 4.5bn euros - 15 times less, as Mr Blair has claimed.
As striking as these figures appear, some experts argue that it is misleading to analyse the rebate in this way.
Professor Iain Begg, an expert in European finance at the London School of Economics, says that this hypothetical comparison of payments without the rebate is not very meaningful.
He says that the best way to calculate the cost of EU membership is to look at contributions as a proportion of a country's economy.
On this basis, the France made a net contribution of 0.12% of GDP in 2003, and the UK 0.16% of GDP, a difference of about 33%.

EU REBATE: COUNTER- CLAIM

The French argument centres quite simply on the fact the UK rebate is no longer justified because the UK is no longer poorer than the rest of Europe, as it was in 1984 when the rebate was agreed. A senior French official also argued that Britain's historical disadvantage due to heavy EU spending on agriculture would decrease over time, since the reform of the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) would reduce spending on agriculture to just 35% of the EU budget by 2013.

[TSR2]

well the french have a decided benefit from C,A,P,

they state that without it french farms would disappear,

Well they might because of their small un-economic sizes as compared to some of the big UK farms

Whilst I understand the french do not wish to lose an idyllic way if life, the rest of the world (EU) should not have to bankroll it

[English Noodles]

With any luck, the UK will have a referendum on the subject of staying in the EU.

[Spin]

Greece slits its wrists.

They really did didn't they!

Never mention the war to Germans.....

[English Noodles]

That's the second Basil Fawlty clip in the news section tonight.

I posted one an hour or so ago.

[Bangyai]

Yes well, a current big hit in Greece :



Although I think the Greek lyric is

" Lets not face the music and riot "

[baldrick]

if greece is allowed to fail there are a number of other european countries that will fall into the chasm after it.

[Butterfly]

What this means below is that a private corporation was able to "bailout" an entire country before joining the EURO.

This is how big GS has become

the complexity of financial derivatives have become so great in recent years, it's impossible for government officials or even regulators to understand what they really mean


FT.com / Companies / Banks - Goldman role in Greek crisis probed

Goldman role in Greek crisis probed

By Alan Rappeport and Tom Braithwaite in Washington and David Oakley in London

Published: February 25 2010 15:35 | Last updated: February 26 2010 00:28

The US central bank is looking into Goldman Sachs’s role in arranging contentious derivatives trades for Greece, which helped the country to massage its public finances, Ben Bernanke, chairman of the Federal Reserve, revealed on Thursday.

“We are looking into a number of questions relating to Goldman Sachs and other companies and their derivatives arrangements with Greece,” Mr Bernanke said, apparently referring to Greek currency transactions structured by Goldman.

Testifying before Congress, Mr Bernanke also responded to concerns that instability in markets for Greek debt and other securities has been heightened by trading in other derivatives, known as credit default swaps, which compensate investors in case of default.

Mr Bernanke said default swaps are “properly used as hedging instruments” and that “using these instruments in a way that intentionally destabilises a company or a country is counterproductive”.

The Securities and Exchange Commission is “examining potential abuses and destabilising effects related to the use of credit default swaps and other opaque financial products and practices”, said a spokesman.

Separately, Phil Angelides, chairman of the US Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, told the Financial Times he was concerned about the practice of creating securities and “fully betting against them” – and about Goldman’s role in particular. Goldman declined to comment.

The US comments came as an official in German chancellor Angela Merkel’s ruling Christian Democratic Union party said the G20 nations were discussing whether a ban on the speculative use of CDS was workable.

Renewed uncertainty about Greece prompted a further sell-off of the country’s bonds and the euro amid rising fears that Athens faced a credit ratings downgrade that would complicate its goal of refinancing its debt in capital markets. The euro fell to a near nine-month low against the US [at]dollar.

Goldman has come under fire from European regulators for structuring transactions that helped Greece trim its debt figures after it joined the European monetary union in 2001.

As Greece’s public debt grew to exceed its annual gross domestic product, the bank helped it organise a currency trade to delay its repayments while meeting European deficit limits.

Goldman has said that the currency swaps played a minimal role in Greece’s current financial crisis and that the transactions were in line with European regulations.

[Bangyai]

if greece is allowed to fail there are a number of other european countries that will fall into the chasm after it.

Totally agree. This is the big story as far as Europe goes. It looks very much like Greece is going to be allowed to sink though , since it has gone to far to help itself even if there was the will to do so. The question is what next ? The other pigs will be smoked bacon next and then England , which is already ailing, can expect to come under extreme pressure, even as the ' experts ' are in conflict as how best to address the growing deficit.
A bit like the Pink Floyd Lyric :

" Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way ......"

[TSR2]

^

The Bank of England Chief has said that U.K. will need more Quantitive Easing.

the pounds already down,

Thank christ I am in $,

although that,s a mystery as to it,s strenght, maybe the best of a bad bunch

[mr Fred]

The good old quid is proper shagged at the moment.
Just checked the Pound/Rp exchange rate after the depressing news on Al Jazeera this morning. I decided to go for a shit because that is about what the pound is worth at the moment.
Rp14,000 and a little bit get you a pound. It's crap.

[Mad Hatter]

Go to google.com type in 'french military victories' and click the 'I'm feeling lucky' button.

Please do try this - it is so amusing.
EN greened for this piece of brilliance.

[English Noodles]

^I'm pleased someone liked it.

[Butterfly]

^ another silly English twat jealous of the French

[English Noodles]

^Did you like it butterfly? Certainly not jealous of the French, just enjoy making fun of them, it's too easy though.