Motorcycle accident

**stroller** · 24-12-2006, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Is it really true that the insurance is only protects for the owner of the bike ridding the bike?

This would be the standard arrangement with the legally required insurance, so I found out when I was in a minor accident (with my gf's bike)which involved some emergency treatment and x-rays. It didn't matter to me, since I was covered through my private medical. One can add other drivers to the policy, at an extra cost.

**William** · 24-12-2006, 01:28 PM

First off, I'm sorry to hear of the accident. I'm glad to hear, however, that all parties should be OK.

That said, you actually don't need a lawyer. The law went out the window about 0.2 seconds before the accident happened.

What you do need is someone connected locally - i.e., kows the local police and, if possible, the local community.

A situation like this needs a mediator - not a know it all lawyer.

**dirtydog** · 24-12-2006, 02:28 PM

The police wont want to get involved, they want both parties to sort it out amicably themselves, for the medical insurance the police will do a report, I got one done last week for a guy, 400baht for the report so that he could claim off of the bike insurance, they wrote something along the lines of they flagged him down but his brakes failed so they came off of the bike, in real life a taxi clipped them and knocked them off and then fled the scene as per usual.

**Thetyim** · 24-12-2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

This would be the standard arrangement with the legally required insurance,

We are talking 3rd party damages here not 1st party.

My insurance agent is coming here tommorrow, he is a master at getting the police turned around.
I will ask his advice and post if he comes up with anything useful.

**stroller** · 24-12-2006, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Thetyim

We are talking 3rd party damages here not 1st party.

Yes, I understand this, the policy is bound to one person in connection with their bike, it's not the bike which is insured for whoever rides it, nor the person riding another bike. -this keeps the cost of the policy down and seems to satisfy the law.

**Thetyim** · 24-12-2006, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

the policy is bound to one person in connection with their bike, it's not the bike which is insured for whoever rides it, nor the person riding another bike.

You could well be right, I don't know the answer but if this is correct then it is a crazy system.
How does CMN handle bike hire?

**obsidian** · 24-12-2006, 05:24 PM

DWW (driving while white) is a serious violation in the Kingdom. at least no one was killed and the worst case scenario seems relatively beign. i wish you well.

**Spin** · 24-12-2006, 07:49 PM

Sorry to hear about this situation Rigger and Mac......here's my 2 bahts worth.

As I understand it the insurance on the bike that Mac was riding is just the ordinary "compulsory" (cheap 600-900 baht per year).

Below is a sample translation of Royal & SunAlliance Insurance (Thailand) compulsory policy.

Compulsory Motor Insurance

Point 6 clearly states that the coverage of the insurance is for any rider with permission of the owner to use the bike. A translation of your policy should be done asap.

The insurance company should pay medical expenses of injured parties up to 15,000 baht per person (see point 3.1).

As the vehicle is registered to Riggers wife it would be a good idea to find the village head man and arrange a meeting at a later date for injured parties and Riggers wife to attend with police. It might be a good idea for farangs not to attend. This might sway negotiations, the injured parties mentality is that they want thier hospital bills paid and they want some kind of compensation plus bike repairs because they see money when they see farang.

The bottom line is that farangs are at a definate disadvantage in this situation and thats something we should all remember every time we turn the key!

It sucks and i dont like it but thats just the way it is here

maybe you should have "fled the scene"

**Rigger** · 25-12-2006, 06:37 AM

My wife spoke to the police last night and they told me I could take the the bike today. He also told my wife that they seem to think both partys were at fault. Also DD is right for a change

and the police wont us to sort it out between us anyway once I get the bike the ball is 100% in Macattacks court to deal with it as he see fit. But I hope it all works out and by 12:00 we can all head back to my place and have a xmas party and get pisst

**Mr Earl** · 25-12-2006, 07:20 AM

^ that's good news you got the bike away from the cops.
I re-read Macs description of the accident.
I'd tend to agree that fault lies with both parties.
Mac failed to adhere to the basic "see and avoid" technique of riding.
He saw her but was going too fast to avoid. If he was in 3rd gear and accelerating out of the turn it's likely he was going closer 70-90 kph not 45.
Large bikes as we all know accelerate quickly.

I couldn't count the number of times I've had to avoid idiots on scooters doing stupid driving tricks. The reservoir of stupid things they can do is almost endless.
And the burden is on us not to hit them!

**Thetyim** · 25-12-2006, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Rigger

the police last night and they told me I could take the the bike today

That is very good news.
It means they are not going to fit you up.
Find out how much the 3rd party is claiming before you announce your damages.

If they try and make a claim for "shock" let me know.

**Mousepad** · 25-12-2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Rigger

My wife spoke to the police last night and they told me I could take the the bike today. He also told my wife that they seem to think both partys were at fault. Also DD is right for a change

and the police wont us to sort it out between us anyway once I get the bike the ball is 100% in Macattacks court to deal with it as he see fit. But I hope it all works out and by 12:00 we can all head back to my place and have a xmas party and get pisst

Good news Rigger. Glad to hear things are getting sorted. What kind of bikes were involved, a big un?

**BillyZ** · 25-12-2006, 02:30 PM

I had an accident in Sattahip a few months back with a retired Navy guy. His fault, completely, despite his protestations of innocent.

The police came and took all of the needed information. My insurance guy came down from Pattaya and right away told the other guy, "Looks like you were trying to make an illegal turn in front of my client." He was a young guy starting down this Navy guy of 60 some-odd years. I was thinking, "You GO, dude!!"

That might have been your best chance at the time of the accident. But now that time's moved on, you're best off following the advice above.

"The law is the law", yes. But that doesn't mean that the police or the courts follow the law. It's pleasantly surprising when they do and side with the farang. But it's not something you can rely upon or force them into doing.

Experience teaches us farang drivers here in Thailand to either tap the breaks earlier, anticipating shitty driving. Or, if it's too late for that, pick up the bike and get the hell out of there before the crowd starts forming (Thai style).

**Spin** · 25-12-2006, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

And the burden is on us not to hit them!

Could'nt agree more, thats exactly how it seems

**Wallace** · 26-12-2006, 12:42 PM

I've been thinking about some of the comments on this thread, and the overall position regarding accidents involving non-Thais. I wonder if Rigger's attitude would have been quite so charitable if he'd been the one in hospital with some serious injuries, or his passenger. I can't see a Thai turning up at the hospital and volunteering to pay some of the costs.

I have pretty strong feelings about the way we are treated here in this kind of incident. Simply put, it's nothing more than overt racism which wouldn't stand up in any other country that claims an iota of civilisation. This lady had no license, no insurance (we think) and she just shouldn't have been on the road. I doubt very much that Thai law says that the innocent victim should have to shoulder some responsibility for an accident when the other person is entirely at fault.

It seems that westerners are quite happy to shrug and say that's just the way it is in Thailand. I say, no. It wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else and it shouldn't be acceptable here. It's about time Thais decided to take moral responsibility for their actions when it involves harm and injury to another person or their property. By giving in to existing mores, we are never going to change the situation. It is exactly like a black person in the west being told that they are responsible for accidents that aren't their fault simply because they are black.

This woman may or may not learn from her mistakes. But I doubt very much that she'll be going round to the insurance company, looking for a license, and making sure she buys a helmet to protect her head. There are far too many Thais driving around with no experience, no right, and no concern for others. It's about time Thai society grew up, revamped all its traffic laws to ensure that noone should be in charge of any kind of motorised vehicle who isn't qualified to be so, and started treating westerners fairly in accidents of this kind.

**stroller** · 26-12-2006, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Helicopter

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

And the burden is on us not to hit them!

Could'nt agree more, thats exactly how it seems

It works the other way round, too. I'm quite a dilly driving, and the number of times Thais have accommodated my driving style without flipping the bird, hitting the horn or shouting (unlike in Germany and the UK) does endear the unspoken traffic rules to me.

**Mr Earl** · 26-12-2006, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

Originally Posted by Helicopter

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

And the burden is on us not to hit them!

Couldn't agree more, thats exactly how it seems

It works the other way round, too. I'm quite a dilly driving, and the number of times Thais have accommodated my driving style without flipping the bird, hitting the horn or shouting (unlike in Germany and the UK) does endear the unspoken traffic rules to me.

Quite right, for the most part thai drivers are very courteous. Even in the gnarliest traffic jams in BKk horns are not honked very much.. People honke their horns for temples and shrines much more often.

The bad drivers are typically the van drivers and the cooperative taxi drivers here! They honk their horns frequently.

**Marmite the Dog** · 26-12-2006, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Wallace

It's about time Thais decided to take moral responsibility for their actions when it involves harm and injury to another person or their property.

Thais don't have morals. How many times have I had to tell you that?

**Rigger** · 27-12-2006, 05:04 AM

Macattack has it sorted didnt pay a cent and got the bike back. The lady ammitted she caused the accident to the police so end of story and got my bike back. Aparently there was some dickhead family members there saying they want 100K.

**William** · 27-12-2006, 05:06 AM

Great to hear Rigger

**William** · 27-12-2006, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

The bad drivers are typically the van drivers and the cooperative taxi drivers here! They honk their horns frequently.

Probably the worst road in Bangkok now is the expressway from Rama IX to the new airport. Since the new airport opened I've had 2 cars side-winde me (scratch the side of my car). In the first case it was one of those mini-vans who "pushed" me towards the side-wall. In the second it was a car in the fast lane who wanted to get out of the lane ASAP so one of those AOT airport limos could pass before realizing that I was already occupying the middle-lane.

IMHO, those AOT limos are going to kill someone in the not too distant future. If I knew how to do it, I would set up a video-cam on my dash-board and you could see some of the driving skills these gus have. Strangely, the worst ones are the BMW 7 series drivers. They're leathal.

A work colleague of mine who lives near me had an even better one though. He stopped to pay the Baht 25 toll just after the Rama IX exit on the expressway. Next thing he hears is the crunching sound of a car going into the back of him. Absolute shock he asks the driver of the car what the fuck he thought he was doing. Turns out he didn't realise he needed to stop/slow-down to pay a toll.

Driving in Thailand is not about if you're going to have an accident, it's about when. That's the case no matter how good a driver you are (imagined or otherwise). In fact, the better driver you are, likely as not the more chance you'll have an accident here as other drivers are unlikely to be able to read you

. That's why, to the best of my ability, I've always tried to buy cars that have good safety features (such as air-bags, etc.). That said, I'm currently driving a death-trap Mitsu (i.e., zero fucking safety features) between work and home each day.

**Bung** · 27-12-2006, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Wallace

I've been thinking about some of the comments on this thread, and the overall position regarding accidents involving non-Thais. I wonder if Rigger's attitude would have been quite so charitable if he'd been the one in hospital with some serious injuries, or his passenger. I can't see a Thai turning up at the hospital and volunteering to pay some of the costs. I have pretty strong feelings about the way we are treated here in this kind of incident. Simply put, it's nothing more than overt racism which wouldn't stand up in any other country that claims an iota of civilisation. This lady had no license, no insurance (we think) and she just shouldn't have been on the road. I doubt very much that Thai law says that the innocent victim should have to shoulder some responsibility for an accident when the other person is entirely at fault. It seems that westerners are quite happy to shrug and say that's just the way it is in Thailand. I say, no. It wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else and it shouldn't be acceptable here. It's about time Thais decided to take moral responsibility for their actions when it involves harm and injury to another person or their property. By giving in to existing mores, we are never going to change the situation. It is exactly like a black person in the west being told that they are responsible for accidents that aren't their fault simply because they are black. This woman may or may not learn from her mistakes. But I doubt very much that she'll be going round to the insurance company, looking for a license, and making sure she buys a helmet to protect her head. There are far too many Thais driving around with no experience, no right, and no concern for others. It's about time Thai society grew up, revamped all its traffic laws to ensure that noone should be in charge of any kind of motorised vehicle who isn't qualified to be so, and started treating westerners fairly in accidents of this kind. __________________

Here here Wallace.

I'm glad Rigger got his problem sorted out amicably.

I think a major thing to do in these situations is try (as hard as that may be) to keep a cool heart and realise it isn't going to be something you sort out on the spot.

It is time us Farang stopped having to pay for everything in an accident that wasn't our fault or worse, pay for some drunk motorcy riders funeral and "compensation" that you hear happening all too often here.

**donmeurett** · 27-12-2006, 06:59 PM

I have read the replys to your post. Many Negative comments of thai Police.
and what they may of done in the police report.
I would suggest that you get The Police Report have it transulated and see what it says. With out it you do not know what is in the report.
Your Insurance company should help you. At least I would think they would.
Please keep us informed on what happens.
Wish you Luck

don
hodag@yahoo.com

**Eliminator** · 27-12-2006, 09:35 PM

donmeurett, You might have a leg to stand on with your comments except for the fact that the guys involved in the accident have wives or GF that are Thai themselves, so they would know what the report said and I can say this, Riggers' misses can speak both Thai and English.

**donmeurett** · 28-12-2006, 09:05 AM

It is always best to read it for your self if possable thats why i suggested a Transulation. Not by Wives or GF but by a certified Transulator. Just a suggestion Thats all it was.
If it was my accident and my MC inpounded I would do all my best to see the Truth comes out.

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