Thread: 2009 Vigo

Originally Posted by madjbs

You don't need defoggers in hot humid climates. The aircon does the same job.

I would definitely like one.
In Dec/Jan when it is cold why should I have to turn on aircon to clear the front screen.

I use an 80cm computer fan plugged into the ciggy lighter to keep the screen clear

Yes I suppose if you live in the North where it can get a little cold, it might be quite nice. In my car though I just turn the A/C off but keep the fans on, if I'm cold.

Originally Posted by Texpat

I could get a comparable Toyota in the states for much less

For some reason US manufacturers like to make losses in the States (so companies like Toyota are forced to do likewise). Never could work that one out.

Originally Posted by Texpat

It defies logic how any automaker wouldn't put these in a new car.

My car is 4 years old, and it got them

Here you go;

Finally, a sure fire way to stop your windscreen fogging up....if that's what you really want.

A few cool, wet mornings into the season and I've hopped into my friend's passenger seat, he's started the car, pulled away, and immediately the front windscreen begins to mist up.
Like countless other drivers I've travelled with, he then proceeds to try almost everything to stop it fogging up. Everything, that is, except the one or two things that actually work. This is particularly common amongst drivers who live in generally warm, temperate climates, such as Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.
Driven to help my fellow drivingkind, I'll now explain what causes the windscreen to fog up on cold and/or wet mornings. Armed with the science, I'll then show you what you can do to make it go away and stop it coming back.
On a cool, rainy morning, the air inside your car is similar to the air outside your car: heavy with moisture. When you enter the car and close the door, before you even start the engine you start inhaling and exhaling. That first breath you exhale is full to the brim with water vapour - at body temperature and this air pressure, it literally can't hold any more water.
Which is a problem, because air's capacity to hold water varies with temperature and pressure. That's why it's humid in the tropics (warm, higher pressure air can hold more water) and dry in the mountains (cold, lower pressure air holds less water.)
When the warm, moist air from your lungs meets the cold, moist air already in the car, the air from your lungs cools down, which leaves the water vapour from your lungs with nowhere to go. The water vapour solves this problem by condensing on the nearest and coldest surface, which in a cold car on a cool morning, is the cold windscreen in front of you.
The worst demisting solutions
Now you understand why the windscreen fogs up, it's much easier to see why some demisting strategies work better than others. For instance, if you rub the screen with your sleeve to remove some of the condensed water vapour, more vapour will condense from your next breath and mist it right back up again.
Wind down your windows and let more cold, moist air into the car, and it will still fog up since you're probably opening it just a little. If you open the windows enough so that the breeze is strong enough to stop your warm, moist breath reaching the windscreen, that'll work, but you'll wish you brought your scarf, and you'll still have those first few breaths stuck in place on the windscreen.
Likewise, if you just open an air vent or two, you're not doing enough to shift the warm, moist breath and doing nothing to remove the water already on the screen. I've seen some people turn on the recycled air function on the dash, thinking they're doing the right thing by keeping the cold, moist air out. While this slightly increases the air pressure inside the car, slightly increasing the water-carrying capacity of the air in the car, any water vapour that 'needs' to condense will still seek out the cold windscreen.
The best demisting solution: got air-conditioning? Use it!
If you have air-conditioning in your car the best and fastest solution is to turn it on and set it to the windscreen outlets. Air-conditioners cool your car on a hot day by removing water vapour from the air inside the car, which reduces the temperature of the air. So operating your air-conditioner will immediately start removing water vapour from your car on a cold morning too, so that your warm, moist breath will disperse into the air inside the car rather than condensing on the windscreen.
Turning the air-conditioner up high for a little while and directing it through the windscreen vents will also evaporate the water condensed on your windscreen.
Many drivers, particularly women who feel the cold, will press the 'demist' button on their dashboard and then suddenly stab at the air-conditioning controls to turn off the rush of cold air they weren't expecting. Do that and you're actually working against yourself.
If you don't like the cold, dry air blowing on you from the air vents, turn off the vents facing you, point them at the side windows (which will start demisting the side windows) or try this: turn up the heat on the temperature control.
Because we're so used to thinking of air-conditioning as a way to cool things down, many drivers aren't aware that their air-conditioner is also capable of producing hot, dry air. It most certainly can, and this warm, dry air is just about the nicest way to face a cold, wet drive to work, as it'll also start drying out the rain your clothes absorbed on the run to the car.
If you're concerned about fuel economy and you're already warmly dressed, don't forget to reduce the heat and turn off the air-conditioning when you and the windscreen are dry. Air-conditioners increase your fuel consumption, and producing warm, dry air uses a little more fuel than producing cold, dry air on a cold morning.
If you stop to pick up passengers, be prepared to turn on the air-conditioning again for a little while, since the amount of warm, moist air will be doubled by your first passenger and by another third when your second passenger hops in.
Don't have air-conditioning? Get breezy!
The demister button in a car without air-conditioning will try to warm up the windscreen, by blowing warm air at it and/or by running an electric current through a thin wire stuck onto the screen (more common in rear windscreens) to warm up the wire, and eventually, the window.
While less effective than air-conditioning, these solutions will work eventually because they force the water vapour to find another place to condense once the heated portion of the windscreen becomes warmer than your breath.
If you need to get moving and can't wait for that to happen, pull that scarf tight around your neck, grit your teeth, and open enough windows to ensure your warm, moist breath is unable to reach the windscreen. Only then use your sleeve, a bit of newspaper, or anything absorbent to wipe the condensation off the windscreen, since only now will your next breath not fog it up again.
Extra bonus points: what do nucleation, Preparation X, shaving cream and potatoes have in common?
"Nucleation" is the word for the way liquids, gases and crystals (such as water, water vapour and ice) form in some places and not in others. The beads of bubbles in your champagne form threads like that because tiny imperfections in the glass surface encourage bubbles to form (liquid into gas.)
So if you suffer from a foggy windscreen regularly, putting a coating over the tiny imperfections in your windscreen, keeping the screen clean, and even avoiding cheap replacement windscreen glass can make some difference.
Commercial preparations such as Rain-X, available from auto accessory stores, may reduce condensation in many cases by applying a smooth film to the surface, making it harder for the water vapour to find nucleation points, though I haven't tried it myself and 'your mileage may vary.' There are also two old folk remedies I have tried: shaving foam and a cut potato (believe it or not) and neither seem to work.

- Carsguide

Originally Posted by Bung

Turning the air-conditioner up high for a little while and directing it through the windscreen vents will also evaporate the water condensed on your windscreen.

And there is the problem.
In Thailand we don't get any windscreen vents

Originally Posted by EmperorTud

If you have an old model you can change the light clusters and stick a new grille and bumper on it, nobody will be able to tell the difference

I think you have overlooked the big change for cab models.
Doesn't it have rear access doors now ?

Originally Posted by Thetyim

And there is the problem. In Thailand we don't get any windscreen vents

True enough, that would be a worthwhile addition.

That's what I'm referring to -- no air going over the windscreen (windshield).
I rented a van from Don Muang two years ago. Nice, new, roomy and clean. Driving through the mountain pass between Bangkok and Saraburi, we went through a massive temperature swing. All the windows in the van fogged so badly I had to pull over. Nothing worked. Sat there for 30+ minutes. Aircon on high, aircon off, windows down, fan only -- nothing worked as there was no air blowing over the windshield. They should put defoggers in these new cars. Cheap bastards. End of story.

For some reason US manufacturers like to make losses in the States (so companies like Toyota are forced to do likewise).

Another America myth...

Originally Posted by pickel

That is a feature that is definitely lacking in Thailand. It seems to be only found in the top of the line models, where it is usually standard in all cars in the west.

In Germany it is definitely not standard in the entry level models, probably in the rest of Europe as well.

Originally Posted by Texpat

For some reason US manufacturers like to make losses in the States (so companies like Toyota are forced to do likewise).

Another America myth...

How is that a myth?

Texpat, I know that german cars are more expensive here than in the US and not only by the VAT tax margin. I am sure they don't lose money but they make less profit there than in Europe.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Do you also believe auto companies (of various nationalities) all take a loss in the US and make up for it by increasing the prices elsewhere?

How can the US make a car and retail it for say, $16,000 and the same car manufactured in Europe would be nearer $30,000? Is US labour really that cheap?

Originally Posted by Thetyim

I think you have overlooked the big change for cab models. Doesn't it have rear access doors now ?

They do, small suicide doors.

Forgot to mention that in my earlier post.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Is US labour really that cheap?

My Mexican works for less than your Polski.