Thai's and garbage dumping......

[somtamslap]

floating commas

People are even dumping punctuation in the rivers now, what's the world COMING TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Bobcock]

floating commas

You mean an apostrophe?

[Stumpy]

Probably, but you know damn well they will blame the tourists

Yep, they will say "Tourism is ruining the beaches". In a round about way there is some truth to it. As more tourists show up, Thais make businesses to support it and to keep costs down they just chuck the shit wherever and moreover give tourists little options to dispose of what they bought. Try and find a garbage can. Its hard.

Being that most Thais seem to get their food to go, they need to stop with the Styrofoam and plastic bag shit. The soda in a bag deal is a F'n joke. As soon as done they toss bag in street.

Do you still chuck trash around or do you recycle the stuff?

Interesting, I started a local neighborhood recycle deal. This old lady 2 houses down takes them in for recycle money; glass, plastic and cardboard/paper. I package it up nicely and drop it off at her gate. Saw another neighbor do it after I showed them what I did.

I also taught the guy down the street tossing shit in the field next to him to toss it in a 55 gal metal drum and burn the shit every once in awhile. While I am aware there is a trade off burning it, It is far more sanitary and sightly.

In the end its all about educating people and giving them the means to apply it. Laws and fines can be a good deterrent but they end up being pointless as most will never enforce it, just like in the US. Big signs with fine amounts and yet I never see people being tagged for dumping it. However the US(At least in California) has a pretty good refuse management system but it comes with a high price tag.

In the end I will just do my part here best I can and not let anybody within my circle of influence be a pig.

[withnallstoke]

The whole throwing shit away here is even dafter when you can hoard all your shit and then SELL it.
There is a very healthy market for recycling pretty much anything, there is no need to chuck stuff away.
It's a bit like the old rag and bone men (Steptoe) around here - except instead of swapping your shit for a balloon these guys give you hard cash.

[Strongarm]

I've seen my mrs walk ten steps out of her way to put something in a garbage bin only to drop it beside the bin (not intentionally, a missed throw) and then turn and walk away and leave it laying beside the bin. A fee choice four letter words from me and she's never done it again, at least not when I'm around.

[Bangyai]

There is an advert that used to come on tv ( forget the product ) showing a couple of bankers in suits leaving a prestigious building. One of them sees a bit of papar blowing around and stoops to pick it up and put it in the trash bin.
This is apparently how educated people here act every day.

I had to comment to Ms Bangyai that in over 30 years in Thailand I had never seen anyone pick up a bit of trash ( outside of organised events ) much less anyone from the top end of society. Way beneath their exulted dignity.

[somtamslap]

The whole throwing shit away here is even dafter when you can hoard all your shit and then SELL it.

Precisely. Beer bottles are my main source of income.

[jamiejambos]

^ I blame the parents.......

[DrAndy]

can you explain how me saying "it's endemic i think" is a whinge?

of course it is, as endemic in your context means

belonging or native to a particular people or country

so that was the same whinge as others saying "Thais are stupid/dirty/ irresponsible" etc etc but dumped rubbish can be seen in most countries, often worse than seen in Thailand

as for high horse, nope, wrong, just observing the crap people spew

[DrAndy]

Yes indeed, throwing garbage everywhere is a 'normal' thing for un-civilized humans and thus, we can unequivocally state that Thai's are not civilized.

your logic is as flawed as your political convictions

[DrAndy]

Drandy,

Do you still chuck trash around or do you recycle the stuff?

what is the point of asking me that?

I like trash to the point of using selected items to make sculptures

maybe I will post some pics one day

[jamiejambos]

Has? anybody seen a Litterbin in Thailand ....If so, Where ?

[alwarner]

can you explain how me saying "it's endemic i think" is a whinge?

of course it is, as endemic in your context means

belonging or native to a particular people or country

so that was the same whinge as others saying "Thais are stupid/dirty/ irresponsible" etc etc but dumped rubbish can be seen in most countries, often worse than seen in Thailand

as for high horse, nope, wrong, just observing the crap people spew

It is endemic here though. People do not give a fuck.

It wasn't a whinge, it was a statement of fact.

Andrew, would you say people here care about the environment because you've seen worse environments in say India or Africa?

[VocalNeal]

Not just Thailand. Laos, Philippines, Vietnam and Malaysia too.

You missed the garbage capital of the world. Indonesia.

Local Indo scouts had a Jamboree. All camped in tents on a football field, they came form all over for a weekend. When they left the soccer field was one large garbage tip. That was the 'kkin scouts.

[ENT]

Taxexile post #16.

Proof you want ,eh?
Go to HHO on Google. Select any old HHO article there there, better still several.
Try to read and understand.

If you want to try it out, as I did, you can make an HHO unit from;

1 glass jar with lid,
2 pieces of stainless steel pipe, 3'" long, one larger in diameter than the other, to fit in jar.
1 piece of plastic pipe as insulator between steel pipes.
1 metre of electric cable.
1 15 amp fuse and holder.
1 metre fuel hose pipe.
1 plastic T-junction.
6 electrical connectors.
75 cc water.
1 flat tablespoon sodium bicarbonate.

Place 1 pipe separated by plastic pipe inside second larger diameter pipe.
Connect inner steel pipe to earth via hole in jar lid
Connect outer pipe to ignition with via hole in lid and fuse.

Fasten plastic hose to jar, then to T junction then to air intake of car..

Cover all in jar with water and dissolved bicarbonate of soda.

After assembly fasten unit in car motor well.

Turn fuel screw down by 1/3rd.
Start motor.

You will find take off and running is smooth, and YOU SPEND 30% LESS ON FUEL

If you are a total sceptic, of course you won't be convinced, ever.

[sabaii sabaii]

Go to HHO on Google. Select any old HHO article there there, better still several.
Try to read and understand.

OK here goes

The great "run your car on water" scam
May 2008
As oil prices rise, the quest for ways to replace fossil fuels or at least improve the mileage of modern vehicles becomes increasingly urgent.

All around the globe, teams of highly educated scientists slave away in an attempt to squeeze the last few percent of efficiency out of the conventional internal combustion engine because they know that even small improvements can have a big benefit to an auto-maker's bottom line.

At the same time, there appear to be legions of "garage mechanics" who are also working on ways to improve the mileage of your car.

All kinds of crazy devices are now flooding the market and promising to slash your fuel bill by improving your mileage, or maybe even completely eliminating the need to buy gasoline at all.

Perhaps the most prevalent of these systems is the HHO hydrogen generator system that is being pitched by numerous different individuals and small companies.

Connect one of these "fuel cells" up to your car's electrical system, fill it with water and run a pipe to your car's air intake and voila... you'll immediately see a significant improvement in your gas mileage.




Sounds almost too good to be true doesn't it?

And what is it they say about things that sound too good to be true?

Let's take a closer look at those HHO "hydrogen fuel cells".

They are actually nothing more than a simple electrolysis device that uses electricity to split water into its constituent components -- two atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen.

There is nothing magical about this, it's a process that's been around for a very long time.

The gases generated by the electrolysis of water (sometimes referred to as Brown's Gas) can be recombined by way of combustion to release energy.

Unfortunately, the first law of thermodynamics states quite clearly that the energy generated by recombining the hydrogen and oxygen through combustion can only ever be equal to the amount of energy it took to separate them.

In fact it's worse than that.

Because there all sorts of losses involved in the generation of the electricity, the delivery of it to the electrolysis cell and then the combustion process, we actually recover far less energy from burning the hydrogen than it took to create it.

So, once those losses are taken into account, these useless devices will actually cause your car to use *more* fuel - that extra fuel doing nothing more than heating the water in that electrolysis cell and the wires that lead to it.

What's more, the introduction of hydrogen and oxygen into your engine's intake can also lead to the car's computer incorrectly adjusting the air/fuel mixture to the point where fuel consumption either worsens further, or damage could be done to your engine.

As usual in the wonderful world of physics, there are no free lunches.

But a little scientific fact is not about to stand in the way of those who think they can make money from the current energy crisis.

They still insist you can increase your gas mileage by sucking power from your alternator and using it to create hydrogen.

Why would you buy anything (be it plans, instructions or ready-built kits) from someone who has not the faintest grasp of basic science?

Here's a typical scam site that makes outrageous claims you'll "double your mileage" and "generate free energy".

Of course they work hard tug on your heartstrings and feelings of guilt by claiming that you'll also be saving the planet.

Well I'm sorry but this is nothing but a bunch of lies.

Nobody has yet broken the first law of thermodynamics and there's no sign that anyone will. These laws are immutable and have withstood the test of time and many, many brilliant scientific minds.

But what about all these glowing testimonials?

Chances are that some are fake. Others are just poor deluded fools who want it to be true so much that they fool themselves into believing this worthless idea actually works.

Notice how the vast majority of these testimonials come from people such as "Eric from Wisconsin" or "R.A. Foreman (USA)". There is no way to contact these people, let alone even verify that they actually exist.

You'll also notice something else about many of those who pop up claiming that they're using the system and it works... they provide you with a link to a website. That link is inevitably either a paid-per-click link, or the address of a website promoting these scams. In the first instance, the scammer earns a dollar or so every time someone (including you) clicks on that link. In the second case they're usually part of an affiliate or referral scheme whereby they earn a few dollars for every kit, eBook or other piece of snake oil that's sold.

Want proof?

Well look at this page where it's proudly stated that "earn 50% commissions for every referral that places an order".

So of course these people are going to lie to you and say it works, because they want you to believe them and visit the websites or buy the product so that *they* get paid.

And, by the water4gas.com website's own admission, some of its fellow-scammers are earning tens of thousands of dollars every month by duping people into believing this stuff actually works, often simply by telling giant lies and stating that they get enormous fuel-savings when in fact they get none. Don't become one of their victims.

Another good clue to the fact that this is a scam is the way these systems are being marketed on sites such as YouTube. Just look at the result of this search on YouTube.

See how the scammers are spamming YouTube with worthless, endlessly repeated ads that simply serve to promote these worthless products? If this was a genuine product that worked as advertised, word of mouth advertising would ensure that it sold like wildfire. Spamming is the last resort for those pitching products of no value which will never ever receive word-of-mouth endorsement by those who have wasted their money on them.

Please do everyone a favour and whenever someone has uploaded multiple videos all the same and all pitching to promote these lame schemes, take a moment to flag them all as spam. Just think, by doing this, you may be saving some innocent dupe from being fleeced.

This horrible scam is simply an attempt to separate you from a whopping $97 of your hard-earned cash. That money will get you access to a couple of e-books that purport to contain the secrets of doubling your fuel economy by breaking the laws of thermodynamics.

Don't waste your money. Don't become just another sucker who is taken in by shysters like these (and there are plenty more out there, I've just given one example).

In today's world of rapidly rising fuel prices, $97 won't buy you much gas but it'll get you a lot further than the worthless plans and instructions in these books.

If you have a website of your own, please add a link to this page so that it can be found by those poor hapless souls that might be contemplating wasting good money on one of these scams.

Now check out the scientific proof that shows just how impossible these "run your car on water" scams really are.

[sabaii sabaii]

Oh dear, why has the video been removed ENT ?

The proof that HHO is a scam
May 2008
If you haven't already read the intro to this proof, please do.

The first thing you'll note about these "run your car on water" schemes is the size of the electrolysis cell and the wires that lead to it.

Typically they're about jam-jar size and the wires are about 16 gauge, a thickness that can comfortably carry about 30A which, at 12V, represents about 360W of power.

So the first question obviously has to be...




How much gas is needed to reduce fuel consumption by 40%?

Well the first thing is to work out how much energy it requires to keep an average vehicle cruising at(say) 65mph. According to this source it takes around 20HP to cruse at that speed.

Let's convert that to electrical energy by multiplying by 746 (the number of watts in a horsepower). We get 14,920, or roughly 15KW.

Now, if we want to replace 40% of that power with energy from HHO gas, we'll need to use at least 15KW x 0.4 which comes to 6,000 watts (6KW).

If we assume that the electrolysis cell which converts electricity into HHO gas is 100% efficient (which it certainly isn't) then that means we'll need a massive 6000W/12V or 500 amps of current to make that much gas.

Suddenly those 30A wires are looking rather inadequate aren't they?

What's more, since the average car's alternator can only deliver about 80A of current, this means the battery would have to deliver the other 520A and (in the case of even a good 80AH unit) would be flat in under 10 minutes.

Of course these simple calculations ignore the fact that electrolysis cells are not 100% efficient and the even more important fact that the average internal combustion engine is only around 30% efficient -- so even if we delivered 6KW of HHO gas to the engine it would only produce under 2KW of actual power.

With these inefficiencies taken into account we'd actually need a staggering 1,500A of electrical current to generate the necessary HHO gas to reduce our fuel input by 40%.

So clearly the math doesn't add up. There's just no way you can extract enough electrical energy from your car's automotive system to create the gas volumes needed to create any meaningful amount of energy.

How efficient are those electrolysis cells

Well in the above calculations, we've assumed 100% efficiency but the sad truth is that even the best electrolysis cells offer far less than that.

In the case of these "run your car on water" scams, the tiny containers of water usually pictured are grossly inadequate, not only in their efficiency but also in their actual size.



Take a look at the YouTube video above and note the following:

the amount of power the small single-cylinder is producing
the amount of gas being used to produce that small amount of power
the size of the electrolysis cells needed to generate that amount of gas
the amount of electrical power (1.7KW) needed to generate that gas.
Obviously, given that it's taking 1.7KW (or around 2.3HP) of electrical energy and a huge electrolysis cell to create *just* enough gas to keep a lawnmower engine barely idling, the jam-jar sized cells promoted for vehicles are a joke.

And the sad thing is that, even if you used a huge cell like this, the amount of gas created would still be too small to have any discernable effect and the amount of electrical energy required would be beyond any vehicles electrical system.

So there you have it folks.

The laws of thermodynamics remain safe. The only thing at risk is the hard-earned cash of those who are gullible enough to be duped by these scammers.

No, you can't run your car on water by installing a useless electrolysis cell under the bonnet.

But wait... I've recently had a lot of email from HHO scammers who claim that I've got it all wrong and that HHO doesn't violate the laws of thermodynamics.

Here is how they claim it works and why I still say it doesn't.

[ENT]

^
No idea at all.

Anti-HHO freaks maybe?

[tsicar]

Yes indeed, throwing garbage everywhere is a 'normal' thing for un-civilized humans and thus, we can unequivocally state that Thai's are not civilized.

your logic is as flawed as your political convictions

nope.
YOURS is, andy.
you seem to think like a thai or a woman:
instead of just observing what is actually going on around you and coming to a conclusion, you try take a different tack and find some weird reason why the logical conclusion to arrive at should be the wrong one.

it's hard to think logically while your head is stuck up your arse!

[ralphlsasser]

it's all part of the "i don't give a fuck" mindset.

throw the shit everywhere as long as it is not on your own doorstep.

at my kids' school in the village, the teachers made the kids do a "chicken parade" every morning:
they were chased around the playground to pick up all the litter before school started.
i used to watch them run straight to the tuckshop afterward to buy shit in plastic bags before the bell rang and dump the crap where they stood, just to be made to pick it up again the next morning.
even a bloody monkey should have been able to figure it out, but not the thais!

..it's not lack of education: it's the 'kkin CULTURE!

You are spot on. I can't count the times I've been on a bus and people throw trash out of the window. ONE time, the driver TOLD the people on the bus to throw it out the window when they ask for a trash bag.
A very low class, trashy Thai family live next to where my land ends. One day I saw the woman dumping her trash on my land. When I walked out to look at it and to tell her to pick her shite up off my land, I noticed she had been dumping her trash there for a while. Outraged, I showed my arse and went balistic and told her to get it off. She told me she would burn it when it dried. I got some oil and burned it. There is a trash bin 15 meters from her house, but she was too damn lazy to walk to it.
After my rant, she goes to her trash bin now. Thai's don't give a shite about anything but their selves. It's always, what I want and to hell with others. I obviously did some good that day letting them know what I will accept and not accept.
The sad part is, my wife didn't get upset about them dumping trash on our land. So, YES I did sleep in the dog house a few nights.

[bigneilo]

Just to possibly try to steer this away from a thai bashing post, fly tipping is a massive problem in the uk, costing millions to clean up, not so much on beaches but in scenic rural areas. Main culprits being 'cowboy' builders as the cost of skips for waste removal has got so high, they don,t include them when pricing a job as the more reputable do, making their quote the cheapest.

[kmart]

They ought to put up a big banner on my local beach that says "Welcome To Payoon Beach Festival Of Litter" or somesuch.
The local bovines don't seem to feel like they've had a good day out on the beach without leaving their own body-weight in garbage behind them. Usually right next to the oil drum litter bins provided.
Seems to be a "compartmentalized" type of thinking that allows a lot of Thais to have pristine houses and gardens, whilst having no compunctions about throwing their rubbish over the nearest wall.

[ralphlsasser]

Just to possibly try to steer this away from a thai bashing post, fly tipping is a massive problem in the uk, costing millions to clean up, not so much on beaches but in scenic rural areas. Main culprits being 'cowboy' builders as the cost of skips for waste removal has got so high, they don,t include them when pricing a job as the more reputable do, making their quote the cheapest.

"Thai bashing" as you call it is warranted in these circumstances.

[bigneilo]

Just to possibly try to steer this away from a thai bashing post, fly tipping is a massive problem in the uk, costing millions to clean up, not so much on beaches but in scenic rural areas. Main culprits being 'cowboy' builders as the cost of skips for waste removal has got so high, they don,t include them when pricing a job as the more reputable do, making their quote the cheapest.

"Thai bashing" as you call it is warranted in these circumstances.

my point being this is a universal issue, not just a thai one. i remember way back when, when we used to go to seaside (brid or scarborough) as a child, eating chips out of newspaper and then just throwing the wrapper on the floor when finished, it was the done thing back then (early 70s) . for obvious reasons frowned upon now, maybe thailand is just running behind the west a few decades or so.

[ralphlsasser]

Just to possibly try to steer this away from a thai bashing post, fly tipping is a massive problem in the uk, costing millions to clean up, not so much on beaches but in scenic rural areas. Main culprits being 'cowboy' builders as the cost of skips for waste removal has got so high, they don,t include them when pricing a job as the more reputable do, making their quote the cheapest.

"Thai bashing" as you call it is warranted in these circumstances.

my point being this is a universal issue, not just a thai one. i remember way back when, when we used to go to seaside (brid or scarborough) as a child, eating chips out of newspaper and then just throwing the wrapper on the floor when finished, it was the done thing back then (early 70s) . for obvious reasons frowned upon now, maybe thailand is just running behind the west a few decades or so.

It is an univeral issue. I live in Thailand, so it is a Thai issue. It has nothing to do with "running behind the west a few decades or so". It DOES have everything to do about giving a shite. Something most Thai's don't do.