Rubber farming

[crepitas]

Totally irrelevant bit of rubber farming trivia:
King Leopold of Belgium was the the last slaver...used Congolese slaves to farm and cut his rubber...would cut off their hands and/or feet if they did not meet quotas for Mr Charles Goodyear's tyres....no wonder they later wiped out so many whites...!

Leopold also indirectly influenced the start of WW1..!!

[Rural Surin]

With a little simple research, you'll find that slaving was still a practice post-WW2.

[withnallstoke]

Rubber slaving is still going strong.

[Gravesend Dave]

Rubber slaving is still going strong.

Take your word on that mate,no need to back it up with a wardrobe shot

[crepitas]

With a little simple research, you'll find that slaving was still a practice post-WW2.

of course ..still is.... except not something the PC world wants to know about ...when it is reported by ILO it is called forced labour and below subsistence wage levels
As you say lots of info on google.
Intl Corporations and military being among worst offenders .....
eg: Bridgestone/Firestone in their Liberian rubber plantations, free South Africa in the mines and on farms....
Many of the worlds food commodities like tea, sugar,rice.coffee.fruit etc are harvested at barely subsistence level wages.

Sad frickin world.....unfortunately as consumers we are all part of the problem..way of the world.

[glennb6]

those that are "forced" to work on subsistence wage are typical of the inhabitants of house of Jim's neighbor, along with a consummate work ethic. Well at least that's my perspective of a significant population of Issan.

[Pragmatic]

You are wrong Glennb6 in that the likes of Jims neighbours are "forced" to work for subsistence wages. Nobody "forces" them that's why Jim can't get people to work for him. My neighbours live in a similar house to Jim's neighbour along with the majority of the village. Some of these people will not spend money on living in fancy brick houses. Even if you gave them one free. They like their way of life. You can see that in the houses farangs have built for wives and extended family. The farang will have a nice fancy kitchen built only for the Thais never to use it and cook outside on charcoal. Same goes for the sit on loo. They don't like them and would rather shit in a hole in the cassava field. Beds and chairs are avoided as they prefer the floor. And they prefer to drink mosquito ridden rainwater from a huge jar than drink filtered water
Also Glennb6, people in that type of house may well be very well off, owning large amounts of land. Don't judge a book by the cover.

[wasabi]

Totally irrelevant bit of rubber farming trivia:
King Leopold of Belgium was the the last slaver...used Congolese slaves to farm and cut his rubber...would cut off their hands and/or feet if they did not meet quotas for Mr Charles Goodyear's tyres....no wonder they later wiped out so many whites...!

Leopold also indirectly influenced the start of WW1..!!

This was over 100 years ago,what has it got to do with the living in todays world. Oh he was a white guy,so therefore a baddie. Why don't you look at the History of the last 40 years of the Congo.Oh no,it does not look good,the failings of black africans.
How many Blacks have been killed in the last 40 years in the Congo,by their own black brothers.
What is the state of the rubber industry in todays Congo?
What was rubber used for in King Leopalds reign?

[crepitas]

Totally irrelevant bit of rubber farming trivia:
King Leopold of Belgium was the the last slaver...used Congolese slaves to farm and cut his rubber...would cut off their hands and/or feet if they did not meet quotas for Mr Charles Goodyear's tyres....no wonder they later wiped out so many whites...!

Leopold also indirectly influenced the start of WW1..!!

This was over 100 years ago,what has it got to do with the living in todays world. Oh he was a white guy,so therefore a baddie. Why don't you look at the History of the last 40 years of the Congo.Oh no,it does not look good,the failings of black africans.
How many Blacks have been killed in the last 40 years in the Congo,by their own black brothers.
What is the state of the rubber industry in todays Congo?
What was rubber used for in King Leopalds reign?

5555 failed reading & comprehension 101 did we?
Read the post and title again....... silly boy!!

History, my dear chap, is what shapes "today's world".

[Rural Surin]

History, my dear chap, is what shapes "today's world".

Don't you mean to say: made-up historic perspective is what shapes today's world?

[piwanoi]

You are wrong Glennb6 in that the likes of Jims neighbours are "forced" to work for subsistence wages. Nobody "forces" them that's why Jim can't get people to work for him. My neighbours live in a similar house to Jim's neighbour along with the majority of the village. Some of these people will not spend money on living in fancy brick houses. Even if you gave them one free. They like their way of life. You can see that in the houses farangs have built for wives and extended family. The farang will have a nice fancy kitchen built only for the Thais never to use it and cook outside on charcoal. Same goes for the sit on loo. They don't like them and would rather shit in a hole in the cassava field. Beds and chairs are avoided as they prefer the floor. And they prefer to drink mosquito ridden rainwater from a huge jar than drink filtered water
Also Glennb6, people in that type of house may well be very well off, owning large amounts of land. Don't judge a book by the cover.

Quite true Pragmatic ,the evidence to your post is all around in my little Village

[crepitas]

History, my dear chap, is what shapes "today's world".

Don't you mean to say: made-up historic perspective is what shapes today's world?

maybe so.....although history is and will continue to be interpreted and cherry picked in many convenient ways by those who find it in their interests to do so.
Many a hero would be dethroned if this were not the case.
...it is not hard nowadays to read get at the truth and realities ....ineffectual as the revelations may be.

In most cases nobody wants to know. Avaricious imperialism, religious and political dogma ad nauseam don't make on to many school syllabi methinks.

[jamescollister]

You are wrong Glennb6 in that the likes of Jims neighbours are "forced" to work for subsistence wages. Nobody "forces" them that's why Jim can't get people to work for him. My neighbours live in a similar house to Jim's neighbour along with the majority of the village. Some of these people will not spend money on living in fancy brick houses. Even if you gave them one free. They like their way of life. You can see that in the houses farangs have built for wives and extended family. The farang will have a nice fancy kitchen built only for the Thais never to use it and cook outside on charcoal. Same goes for the sit on loo. They don't like them and would rather shit in a hole in the cassava field. Beds and chairs are avoided as they prefer the floor. And they prefer to drink mosquito ridden rainwater from a huge jar than drink filtered water
Also Glennb6, people in that type of house may well be very well off, owning large amounts of land. Don't judge a book by the cover.

There is a lot to the whole thing, we pre industrial revolution lived a similar life, make hay when the sun shined. Few worked in the winters, no winters here, work is done to secure the rice for the coming year.
We in the west have been trained since the industrial revolution to work, over time the poor lost their land and independence to become factory fodder. Schools were set up to train the poor from childhood to believe that you are what you work at, be a good company man.

It would take a generation or more to do that here, but the new tool of control in the west, consumerism is here. Look at the credit given to poor farmers to buy cars, TVs etc. It has reached here to some degree, those who have rubber, all drive new cars, new houses are spring up around the village, Plantation owners do have a work ethic, as they planted trees years ago, but they don't need to work for me.

Those that thought planting rubber was too much work and rice was enough are my labor pool, they are the only able bodied man available, but they don't have car payments etc and can't get loans as they have no real income. They don't see a need to do anything different than their fathers and grandfather did. Jim

[crepitas]

You are wrong Glennb6 in that the likes of Jims neighbours are "forced" to work for subsistence wages. Nobody "forces" them that's why Jim can't get people to work for him. My neighbours live in a similar house to Jim's neighbour along with the majority of the village. Some of these people will not spend money on living in fancy brick houses. Even if you gave them one free. They like their way of life. You can see that in the houses farangs have built for wives and extended family. The farang will have a nice fancy kitchen built only for the Thais never to use it and cook outside on charcoal. Same goes for the sit on loo. They don't like them and would rather shit in a hole in the cassava field. Beds and chairs are avoided as they prefer the floor. And they prefer to drink mosquito ridden rainwater from a huge jar than drink filtered water
Also Glennb6, people in that type of house may well be very well off, owning large amounts of land. Don't judge a book by the cover.

There is a lot to the whole thing, we pre industrial revolution lived a similar life, make hay when the sun shined. Few worked in the winters, no winters here, work is done to secure the rice for the coming year.
We in the west have been trained since the industrial revolution to work, over time the poor lost their land and independence to become factory fodder. Schools were set up to train the poor from childhood to believe that you are what you work at, be a good company man.

It would take a generation or more to do that here, but the new tool of control in the west, consumerism is here. Look at the credit given to poor farmers to buy cars, TVs etc. It has reached here to some degree, those who have rubber, all drive new cars, new houses are spring up around the village, Plantation owners do have a work ethic, as they planted trees years ago, but they don't need to work for me.

Those that thought planting rubber was too much work and rice was enough are my labor pool, they are the only able bodied man available, but they don't have car payments etc and can't get loans as they have no real income. They don't see a need to do anything different than their fathers and grandfather did. Jim

yup: ....those poor buggers are often throwing money at their frickin "holy' boy children who sit on their arses waiting for the rice to be cooked or ride around on motorbikes with a phone stuck in their ear.....what's to happen when the oldies with some sort of work ethic for their boy kids get past it......not seen too many lads around here cutting rubber or..mostly girls. Guess that's how the boys intend to survive..marry into a farm and cointinue to sit on their arse.....?

[glennb6]

perhaps referring to the wooden hut dwellers as forced labor was not exactly the way I wanted to explain my impression of 'village work ethic'. In my wife's home village there is predominantly the ethos of; work only if necessary, gamble whenever possible, drink laokao beginning at breakfast, borrow (haha) and hock all the money possible, sell your land when broke, and layabout all the other time.

Ok, there may be one or two families with 'money' that live in the village under tin roofs by choice, but they are few.

My point is sort of that societies such as these, they did not invent medicine, industry, technology, transportation systems, literature, a good education system, etc. The desire to improve, better ones self, earn and have more - these are motivators which brought about a developed world and the benefits thereof.

I don't have a good opinion of poor people who lay about in sloth waiting for (parents/govt/others) to 'help' them. Even worse are the ones who gamble, drink, and drug themselves into pretending they are something they are not.

There are opportunities and ways for many of the poor here to become not poor, but for the most part they are just too lazy to get off their ass and work for it. That statement has been said to me by a few Thai's too.

[crepitas]

perhaps referring to the wooden hut dwellers as forced labor was not exactly the way I wanted to explain my impression of 'village work ethic'. In my wife's home village there is predominantly the ethos of; work only if necessary, gamble whenever possible, drink laokao beginning at breakfast, borrow (haha) and hock all the money possible, sell your land when broke, and layabout all the other time.

Ok, there may be one or two families with 'money' that live in the village under tin roofs by choice, but they are few.

My point is sort of that societies such as these, they did not invent medicine, industry, technology, transportation systems, literature, a good education system, etc. The desire to improve, better ones self, earn and have more - these are motivators which brought about a developed world and the benefits thereof.

I don't have a good opinion of poor people who lay about in sloth waiting for (parents/govt/others) to 'help' them. Even worse are the ones who gamble, drink, and drug themselves into pretending they are something they are not.

There are opportunities and ways for many of the poor here to become not poor, but for the most part they are just too lazy to get off their ass and work for it. That statement has been said to me by a few Thai's too.

Sort of agree with most of your points....okay there are those that don't have the ability to get out and earn,fair enough. Never understood why a rubber cutter, for instance, is deemed to be poor..40/50 % of produce with no overhead..can't be bad?
Nothing wrong with hand to mouth if that is how one chooses to live....initiative is what holds most back in there chosen lifestyle. ...buy and cook a few noodles, barbeque some chicken whatever.... pretty reasonable income if, as you say, they care to get off their arse.
Remember the days in UK when coal miners et al were being made redundant... even as a 14yo could never understand why those that could did not get off their arse and take up some other endeavor ,guess many did but others just sat and whined.

[jamescollister]

It's really how you look at things, you see poor, lazy folk, but that's what they are used to and know no better.

Now lets look at it from another angle. What would you call a guy in the west that owns his house, has land to farm and makes enough income to play golf most of the year.

No right or wrong and we all just do as our daddy done. Jim

[glennb6]

well if someone's earned enough to retire and play golf or enjoy beer for the rest of their life, good change they paid plenty of dues to get there. Good on them.

Actually If Somchai wants to layabout and live that life, fine with me but, it's usually those sort that are asking for 'help' and selling their feed corn just to pay their gambling debts, at least that's what I see in wife's village.

[jamescollister]

well if someone's earned enough to retire and play golf or enjoy beer for the rest of their life, good change they paid plenty of dues to get there. Good on them.

Actually If Somchai wants to layabout and live that life, fine with me but, it's usually those sort that are asking for 'help' and selling their feed corn just to pay their gambling debts, at least that's what I see in wife's village.

The real or new world has arrived in your neck of the woods, not here yet, but not far away.

I sometimes try to explain whats coming, but they can;t understand, this is how it's been for generations and how can it change.

Feel sorry for those that have stayed in the passed, there kids will be cheap labor in the cities. Many here, of shall we say Chinese descend have gone to university and over years have bought land. There is still free land out here, say you are landless an the Government will give you land to farm.

Problem being for them is there is not much land in the village left for homes. and living with family is very important out here.

That hut picture I posted. is a group of 7 huts, all one family, there is may be enough space to build one more hut, but there must be 11 kids
Where will they live,
I bought many years ago off that family a small house block. 8,000. at the back of where I live now. Didn't build our there because we now have kids and there is a river there. Didn't want them falling in, over protective father.,

Land is now worth 120.000 Baht, the kids from that family, who won't work could never afford to buy it, They will end up in factories in the cities.
Just like we in the west did 2 or 300 hundred years ago.

They will sell their independence, for an I pad.

Just having a bit of a anti big government rant. Jim

[glennb6]

"They will sell their independence, for an I pad." - Jamescollister

If I may quote you on that one day or use it as a tag line somewhere, that sums things up pretty well!

[crepitas]

well if someone's earned enough to retire and play golf or enjoy beer for the rest of their life, good change they paid plenty of dues to get there. Good on them.

Actually If Somchai wants to layabout and live that life, fine with me but, it's usually those sort that are asking for 'help' and selling their feed corn just to pay their gambling debts, at least that's what I see in wife's village.

The real or new world has arrived in your neck of the woods, not here yet, but not far away.

I sometimes try to explain whats coming, but they can;t understand, this is how it's been for generations and how can it change.

Feel sorry for those that have stayed in the passed, there kids will be cheap labor in the cities. Many here, of shall we say Chinese descend have gone to university and over years have bought land. There is still free land out here, say you are landless an the Government will give you land to farm.

Problem being for them is there is not much land in the village left for homes. and living with family is very important out here.

That hut picture I posted. is a group of 7 huts, all one family, there is may be enough space to build one more hut, but there must be 11 kids
Where will they live,
I bought many years ago off that family a small house block. 8,000. at the back of where I live now. Didn't build our there because we now have kids and there is a river there. Didn't want them falling in, over protective father.,

Land is now worth 120.000 Baht, the kids from that family, who won't work could never afford to buy it, They will end up in factories in the cities.
Just like we in the west did 2 or 300 hundred years ago.

They will sell their independence, for an I pad.

Just having a bit of a anti big government rant. Jim

Think that there are government plans to help people with land and buildings etc but as you infer they do not promote it and or help those in need.of course there are those who lack the initiative or incentive ( chronic laziness and apathy?)to actually take advantage.
There is an attractive prefab wooden pole type hut just been put up near us.wife says it is a government program?
Strange ain't it that banks etc freely give loans for a new Toyota to park in front of a shack but there is no government home mortgages plan that I know of...better to give cash back to spend on whatever of course. Helping foreign corporations is more of a priority I guess..
Being somewhat self righteous maybe but what the hey!

[Pragmatic]

Thailand needs to keep the poor poor. Who's going to work in the rice fields and factories if they didn't?

[Gravesend Dave]

You are wrong Glennb6 in that the likes of Jims neighbours are "forced" to work for subsistence wages. Nobody "forces" them that's why Jim can't get people to work for him. My neighbours live in a similar house to Jim's neighbour along with the majority of the village. Some of these people will not spend money on living in fancy brick houses. Even if you gave them one free. They like their way of life. You can see that in the houses farangs have built for wives and extended family. The farang will have a nice fancy kitchen built only for the Thais never to use it and cook outside on charcoal. Same goes for the sit on loo. They don't like them and would rather shit in a hole in the cassava field. Beds and chairs are avoided as they prefer the floor. And they prefer to drink mosquito ridden rainwater from a huge jar than drink filtered water
Also Glennb6, people in that type of house may well be very well off, owning large amounts of land. Don't judge a book by the cover.

The wife,s family do have beds but do sleep on just a mat at the rubber farm.

When we moved there I did ask why they had no chairs,because they don,t use was the answer.

I bought a chair for inside and some plastic patio type ones for outside.

9 times out of 10 I had nowhere to sit,her Bastard father practically lived in the chair inside.

Sometimes it will be a case of they will certainly use but are to tight to buy!!

[jamescollister]

Thailand needs to keep the poor poor. Who's going to work in the rice fields and factories if they didn't?

Think the Government wants the peasants off the land, to allow big farming to take over.
The poor need to be in the factories, where if they don't work 10 hours a day 6 days a week, they will be on the street going hungry.
Capitalism at it's best. Jim

[poorfalang]

[QUOTE="jamescollister"]There is a lot to the whole thing, we pre industrial revolution lived a similar life, make hay when the sun shined. Few worked in the winters, no winters here, work is done to secure the rice for the coming year.
We in the west have been trained since the industrial revolution to work, over time the poor lost their land and independence to become factory fodder. Schools were set up to train the poor from childhood to believe that you are what you work at, be a good company man.

It would take a generation or more to do that here, but the new tool of control in the west, consumerism is here. Look at the credit given to poor farmers to buy cars, TVs etc. It has reached here to some degree, those who have rubber, all drive new cars, new houses are spring up around the village, Plantation owners do have a work ethic, as they planted trees years ago, but they don't need to work for me.

Those that thought planting rubber was too much work and rice was enough are my labor pool, they are the only able bodied man available, but they don't have car payments etc and can't get loans as they have no real income. They don't see a

How do i back this up?
erhh Foking right mate,