Thread: Rubber trees 101

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Andrew, don't know how they are doing things up Mikes way regarding ,titles, but down our way there have been a few changes in the last year or so.
Land with no paper [ possession land ] is good, local Gov. will witness and issue some paper.
Problem here now is land issued by the crown, which has paper and was dealt with in the same way as possession land, but should really have gone through the land office. This land can not be sold legally and the local Government are refusing to witness sales and transfers. This causes problems if/when the charnote people come, as has happened along the main 2248. Some crown land got charnotes issued, some are in dispute and a few lands were confiscated.
In saying that the price is worth the gamble. Jim

Sorry Jim , but your pessimistic post 390 does not reflect on what you are saying now ,sure its a gamble ,that,s life ,but the way you are writing in this particular post 390 your opinion is he's gonna lose ,of course the Thai's do not give a shit cos if the venture goes tits up its not their dough that is going down the drain , my apology's again if I appear so cynical , but that cynicism is borne out by so many sad story's I have been hearing ,or in some cases actually seeing with my own eyes ever since I first set foot in Thailand 24 years ago ,this is why I would never ever contemplate going into business here , especially were Issan Thai men are involved

lose was at the 2 Baht a tree tap, can't lose at 60/40. Good or bad you get 60%, high price or low you get your cut.

On the land thing, it's complex, as Mike says pay the taxes and have a paper trail.
Where it starts to be problematic is other rules, some titles restrict 20 or 50 rai per family, then there's the 10 year rule. If you farm land for 10 years [and paid taxes to prove it] it's yours.

piwanoi happy for you that you had a highly paid job, that allowed you to live a life of your choosing, 20 years ago I wasn't making a 1,000 Pounds a week. Can't remember off the top of my head, but I was either walking a beat in inner city Birmingham UK shit hole or a tier of a max security prison in OZ.
Thailand has problems for farangs, but I sleep, no nightmares of dead kids or nutters coming out of a prison cells trying to poke your eyes out with a fork.

Everyone to their own, for me it's better here with the Thai shit than what I left.
Jim

Hi Jim , its not that I have anything against anyone living here in Thailand ,infact entirely the opposite is the truth, for me any way, there is no way I would ever go back to that shithole called Manchester ,I have a great life here and would not trade it for anything , the weather is just about perfect for me as it induces a thirst for the old amber throat charmer along with the dozens of Farangs who abound in my area , Jan my wife is a little trooper, as well as being a "stunner" is as pleasant as any person one could wish to meet , the only thing and I do stress only thing is that I have no wish to ever make a business here ,not just because I am financially OK as I do not have to , but being fully aware that Thai's are just not the best people to do business with , Oh I have heard a few times were the farang has said yeah but these are OK cos they are "family, only to hear 6 months down the line that they have robbed him blind, which incidentally happened to you did'nt it ,even some Kunt tried to waste you , nah I am quite happy to live a stress free life here in LOS till I pop my clogs

Originally Posted by piwanoi

I have anything against anyone living here in Thailand ,infact entirely the opposite is the truth, for me any way, there is no way I would ever go back to that shithole called Manchester ,I have a great life here and would not trade it for anything , the weather is just about perfect for me as it induces a thirst for the old amber throat charmer along with the dozens of Farangs who abound in my area , Jan my wife is a little trooper, as well as being a "stunner" is as pleasant as any person one could wish to meet , the only thing and I do stress only thing is that I have no wish to ever make a business here ,not just because I am financially OK as I do not have to , but being fully aware that Thai's are just not the best people to do business with , Oh I have heard a few times were the farang has said yeah but these are OK cos they are "family, only to hear 6 months down the line that they have robbed him blind, which incidentally happened to you did'nt it ,even some Kunt tried to waste you , nah I am quite happy to live a stress free life here in LOS till I pop my clogs

Ditto.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by piwanoi

I have anything against anyone living here in Thailand ,infact entirely the opposite is the truth, for me any way, there is no way I would ever go back to that shithole called Manchester ,I have a great life here and would not trade it for anything , the weather is just about perfect for me as it induces a thirst for the old amber throat charmer along with the dozens of Farangs who abound in my area , Jan my wife is a little trooper, as well as being a "stunner" is as pleasant as any person one could wish to meet , the only thing and I do stress only thing is that I have no wish to ever make a business here ,not just because I am financially OK as I do not have to , but being fully aware that Thai's are just not the best people to do business with , Oh I have heard a few times were the farang has said yeah but these are OK cos they are "family, only to hear 6 months down the line that they have robbed him blind, which incidentally happened to you did'nt it ,even some Kunt tried to waste you , nah I am quite happy to live a stress free life here in LOS till I pop my clogs

Ditto.

Ya know Pragmatic the problem is that some farangs are being robbed blind right left and center under their noses and are so fucking naive that they cannot see it going on , there is a case here right now were the guy is blissfully happy ,and every one knows his wife and family is taking him to the cleaners ,I mean whats the use of telling him and causing problems and maybe even bringing the wrath of his wife's family upon oneself ,when all he can think with is whats between his legs and not his ears , but the time will come as it nearly always does when the proverbial will hit the fan , and when he drags his fucking miserable carcass into the bar to tell us all about it, and all say to a man that we have known about it for the last 3 years , he's going to say FFS why did'nt you tell me? then I'm going to give the sad Kunt both barrels and say would you have took a blind bit of notice when all you have is bollocks for brains

Originally Posted by MeMock

I just got word on the result of a tree count on the property for sale.

It was less then I thought.

320 large trees ready to go.
68 smaller trees that would need at least another 12 months
64 small trees that were obviously a replant but haven't caught up (and perhaps might never will)
113 empty spaces. (dead trees)

Any thoughts Thaiguzzi, Jim, anyone?

Say 300 good trees, 1200 kilos of dry rubber per year. Not going to make you rich, but as a Thai/Chinese guy I know said to me. He had paid 25 mil Baht or a rubber plantation on the Burma border. I said you will never get your money back on that deal. He said, I don't have to, but my children and their children will.
If you can afford it buy it in one of your kids names. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

He said, I don't have to, but my children and their children will.

And that is why they end up with most of the money (the Chinese I mean, not the Thai).

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by jamescollister

He said, I don't have to, but my children and their children will.

And that is why they end up with most of the money (the Chinese I mean, not the Thai).

Thats just one , what about the Chinese in China , when Mao had finished with them most were piss poor , now look at them , the power house of the World ,of course there is still immense wealth discrepancies but no one starves to death in their millions as happened in Mao's great leap forward were it was adjudged to be a crime against the state to want to be wealthy .

er

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by MeMock

I just got word on the result of a tree count on the property for sale.

It was less then I thought.

320 large trees ready to go.
68 smaller trees that would need at least another 12 months
64 small trees that were obviously a replant but haven't caught up (and perhaps might never will)
113 empty spaces. (dead trees)

Any thoughts Thaiguzzi, Jim, anyone?

Say 300 good trees, 1200 kilos of dry rubber per year. Not going to make you rich, but as a Thai/Chinese guy I know said to me. He had paid 25 mil Baht or a rubber plantation on the Burma border. I said you will never get your money back on that deal. He said, I don't have to, but my children and their children will.
If you can afford it buy it in one of your kids names. Jim

agree... when we bought our first 25 rai of neglected trees only about 350 produced. We were getting about 80kg latex a day after about 6months TLC feeding and painting etc. Translated to 1000-1500bt a day back then. Anyways calculated after about four years it had near on paid for itself with wife doing the cutting and making sheet so 100% of revenue.
Anyways land investment is better than 2-3% bank interest? They are not making any more etc!

Originally Posted by crepitas

er

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by MeMock

I just got word on the result of a tree count on the property for sale.

It was less then I thought.

320 large trees ready to go.
68 smaller trees that would need at least another 12 months
64 small trees that were obviously a replant but haven't caught up (and perhaps might never will)
113 empty spaces. (dead trees)

Any thoughts Thaiguzzi, Jim, anyone?

Say 300 good trees, 1200 kilos of dry rubber per year. Not going to make you rich, but as a Thai/Chinese guy I know said to me. He had paid 25 mil Baht or a rubber plantation on the Burma border. I said you will never get your money back on that deal. He said, I don't have to, but my children and their children will.
If you can afford it buy it in one of your kids names. Jim

agree... when we bought our first 25 rai of neglected trees only about 350 produced. We were getting about 80kg latex a day after about 6months TLC feeding and painting etc. Translated to 1000-1500bt a day back then. Anyways calculated after about four years it had near on paid for itself with wife doing the cutting and making sheet so 100% of revenue.
Anyways land investment is better than 2-3% bank interest? They are not making any more etc!

+1 on both the above. Can never have enough land.

^

That reminded me of a thread I started 4 years ago. I just updated it - makes interesting reading I think.

https://teakdoor.com/farming-and-gard...-farmland.html (Buy farmland.)

First good rain for the season, last night, will probably start opening the trees next week. If I have any tappers left, and another year begins, just have to hope it's a bit more profitable than last season. Jim

Pi do you have anything to say that's good about anything except you and your own life?

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by jamescollister

He said, I don't have to, but my children and their children will.

And that is why they end up with most of the money (the Chinese I mean, not the Thai).

Thats just one , what about the Chinese in China , when Mao had finished with them most were piss poor , now look at them , the power house of the World ,of course there is still immense wealth discrepancies but no one starves to death in their millions as happened in Mao's great leap forward were it was adjudged to be a crime against the state to want to be wealthy .

Originally Posted by Yasojack

Pi do you have anything to say that's good about anything except you and your own life?

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by jamescollister

He said, I don't have to, but my children and their children will.

And that is why they end up with most of the money (the Chinese I mean, not the Thai).

Thats just one , what about the Chinese in China , when Mao had finished with them most were piss poor , now look at them , the power house of the World ,of course there is still immense wealth discrepancies but no one starves to death in their millions as happened in Mao's great leap forward were it was adjudged to be a crime against the state to want to be wealthy .

Just writing through my wealth of experience having lived here full time since Nov 03 , what do you want me to say? ,I do hope Yasso's happy living part time in his self confessed Madhouse

lived here and moaned the whole time,typical English.

Originally Posted by Yasojack

lived here and moaned the whole time,typical English.

Pissed again are we ?, I have lost count on how many times I have said I am blissfully happy with my lot here with Jan , you must be suffering from alcohol induced Alzheimer's, as My post 401 on this thread was anything but a moan ,in fact so unlike you living part time in a madhouse, I believe things are not going too good for you on the Thai Domestic scene , never mind contact that high falluting legal eagle for some advice he'll sort all your headaches out .

Considering i only ever drink two beers if i drink.

Pi koh samui first wife how did it go again?

No problems here,some of us know how to treat people. and resolve problems.

Built your loving wife a home yet? get real pal, your a fekking sponge living off your loving wife.whilst telling all you have big money.

James sorry for hijacking the thread, just sick of reading the retards negaitivity.

Originally Posted by Yasojack

Considering i only ever drink two beers if i drink.

Pi koh samui first wife how did it go again?

No problems here,some of us know how to treat people. and resolve problems.

Built your loving wife a home yet? get real pal, your a fekking sponge living off your loving wife.whilst telling all you have big money.

Ahh yes you bear all the hall marks of a very lonely and totally unsure individual as to what your future holds in "the madhouse" here in Thailand , and instead of concerning yourself with my Private life in which I have said time without number I am blissfully happy , why not just look in the mirror and ask yourself just WTF have you got yourself

Hey Yaso reading your posts in this thread https://teakdoor.com/doing-things-leg...-and-land.htmlit would seem you are losing sleep at night worrying what the future holds for you in "the madhouse" ,I would suggest you take care of your own business before passing comment about mine

Just a thought, today the window people were here, 6 meter wide aluminum and glass sliding doors at the from of the house. I'm broke until the rubber starts again, I didn't order the doors. No matter how the in laws dress it up, I'm paying, guy up the road has one, big face means FIL needs one.
Would like to neck the guy, but my wifes happy, kids are happy, I have food and beer.
They march to a different drum, I have to go with it or leave, just how it is.
I'm not going to change the customs, that's how they live, farang or Thai their code, their country, their ways.
All in all better than walking a tier in maximum security and seeing my kids when not on shifts.
Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Just a thought, today the window people were here, 6 meter wide aluminum and glass sliding doors at the from of the house. I'm broke until the rubber starts again, I didn't order the doors. No matter how the in laws dress it up, I'm paying, guy up the road has one, big face means FIL needs one.
Would like to neck the guy, but my wifes happy, kids are happy, I have food and beer.
They march to a different drum, I have to go with it or leave, just how it is.
I'm not going to change the customs, that's how they live, farang or Thai their code, their country, their ways.
All in all better than walking a tier in maximum security and seeing my kids when not on shifts.
Jim

So any accidents yet? We have 4 sets .....had to put bits of tape on the new and shiny windows after everbody kept walking into them..
..eventually found some pretty flower wall tile decoration decals ...helped a bit but still happens after the wife closes the kitchen area door which I have just exited because of wind on gas flame.
Kids in downstairs bedroom knocked one whole door off it's track somehow!?
When it happens to you atleast you will be able to swear at the FIL!
Keeping 'em clean is a real pain!!

I think and hope they are all safety glass..had a mate in Sydney with an internal glass door..his neigbour's kid walked into it breaking it and was cut up really badly.

Another hot one on the way methinks...gotta fix a frickin well pump again for the hundreth time!
David

Originally Posted by crepitas

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Just a thought, today the window people were here, 6 meter wide aluminum and glass sliding doors at the from of the house. I'm broke until the rubber starts again, I didn't order the doors. No matter how the in laws dress it up, I'm paying, guy up the road has one, big face means FIL needs one.
Would like to neck the guy, but my wifes happy, kids are happy, I have food and beer.
They march to a different drum, I have to go with it or leave, just how it is.
I'm not going to change the customs, that's how they live, farang or Thai their code, their country, their ways.
All in all better than walking a tier in maximum security and seeing my kids when not on shifts.
Jim

So any accidents yet? We have 4 sets .....had to put bits of tape on the new and shiny windows after everbody kept walking into them..
..eventually found some pretty flower wall tile decoration decals ...helped a bit but still happens after the wife closes the kitchen area door which I have just exited because of wind on gas flame.
Kids in downstairs bedroom knocked one whole door off it's track somehow!?
When it happens to you atleast you will be able to swear at the FIL!
Keeping 'em clean is a real pain!!

I think and hope they are all safety glass..had a mate in Sydney with an internal glass door..his neigbour's kid walked into it breaking it and was cut up really badly.

Another hot one on the way methinks...gotta fix a frickin well pump again for the hundreth time!
David

Only one to walk into them has been me, but motorbikes parked right up to the glass.
Just leave them to it, this big face crap is all the FIL and his need to impress all, may have cost him more than money.
He's a lifetime elected government something, got nicked for illegal logging, part of his job is to assist the forestry guys in catching illegal loggers.
Will laugh my head off while saying how I've lost huge face by having a FIL in jail. Jim

Ah, a nice little rubber tree...this thread is no use without pictures of the trees.

From one of Jim's recent posts I see him quoting 3-5 kg dry/year/tree for local Thai farmers in his area. I am trying to figure out what that translates into as far as baht per tree goes if you are doing lump.

I see the figures quoted in the low 30's baht/kg for cup rubber but I don't know what the typical water content of the cup rubber is. If it is only low 30's baht/kg adjusted back to dry weight then we are gonna be making less than I hoped.

We planted about 2200 RRIM600 trees about 3 years ago. We have had about 300 die post planting most of which have been replanted. This is the last year I will bother to replant and I think we will have to do about 80 to fill everything out. Most of the replants are RRIM3001's. By the time we get to cutting them I am hoping that at least 2000 of the trees are good producers. We have taken good care of the trees though a few have slightly low branches (2.5m), from when we were away for a year and had other look after the trees. The trees are on 2 separate plots of land, one plot of land is slightly higher than the other and the trees are doing a bit better on this plot than the other but both plots are looking very good when I compare them to our neighbors. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't get at least an average production though I know I can expect low production for the first couple of years.

So if any of the experts out there would be so kind, I would like them to take a look at my numbers and tell me if I am off the wall with my annual revenue estimates.

2000 producing trees * 5kg/tree/year * 35 baht/kg(cup lump) / 70% water content

By my math that comes out to 500,000 baht per year gross.

If I am wrong about how the water content works then it would be only 350,000 baht per year gross.

Doesn't seem like a very good return but my biggest concern is finding the workers.

If you figure I need 3 guys to do 2000 trees then they will only be making 46,000 per year, (350,000*40%/3). That's only 4,600 per month per worker if you figure 10 months per year.

Does any of this make sense or am I completely of my nut with my numbers?

Originally Posted by Moolek

From one of Jim's recent posts I see him quoting 3-5 kg dry/year/tree for local Thai farmers in his area. I am trying to figure out what that translates into as far as baht per tree goes if you are doing lump.

I see the figures quoted in the low 30's baht/kg for cup rubber but I don't know what the typical water content of the cup rubber is. If it is only low 30's baht/kg adjusted back to dry weight then we are gonna be making less than I hoped.

We planted about 2200 RRIM600 trees about 3 years ago. We have had about 300 die post planting most of which have been replanted. This is the last year I will bother to replant and I think we will have to do about 80 to fill everything out. Most of the replants are RRIM3001's. By the time we get to cutting them I am hoping that at least 2000 of the trees are good producers. We have taken good care of the trees though a few have slightly low branches (2.5m), from when we were away for a year and had other look after the trees. The trees are on 2 separate plots of land, one plot of land is slightly higher than the other and the trees are doing a bit better on this plot than the other but both plots are looking very good when I compare them to our neighbors. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't get at least an average production though I know I can expect low production for the first couple of years.

So if any of the experts out there would be so kind, I would like them to take a look at my numbers and tell me if I am off the wall with my annual revenue estimates.

2000 producing trees * 5kg/tree/year * 35 baht/kg(cup lump) / 70% water content

By my math that comes out to 500,000 baht per year gross.

If I am wrong about how the water content works then it would be only 350,000 baht per year gross.

Doesn't seem like a very good return but my biggest concern is finding the workers.

If you figure I need 3 guys to do 2000 trees then they will only be making 46,000 per year, (350,000*40%/3). That's only 4,600 per month per worker if you figure 10 months per year.

Does any of this make sense or am I completely of my nut with my numbers?

On my last beer and about to go to bed ,l will get back to you tomorrow. Jim