Thread: Self-sufficiency

My question goes out to those who live in a rural community, living on plots of land who lead self-sufficient lifestyles.

The MIL is getting on a bit now, and Mrs. Bruno and I have recently been mulling over the idea about re-locating to Chiyaphum once she becomes too old to work.

I know nothing about farming, apart from they stink and they take lots of work.

It is not a large plot, as some here have previously declared to 'owning' 100s of rai, but a modest 5 rai that yields a harvest of Thai fruits and vegetables. I must admit that part of me does like the idea of becoming self-sufficient, whilst the other side of me is not so sure that the pastoral comforts of Isaan life is for me, quite yet.

Needless to say, if the MIL was to drop down dead (god forbid that would ever happen as I would be beside myself) then something ought to be done about the land and house that exists there. She has a number of teak trees growing there that are still in their juvenile years.

So, should I make some sort of concerted effort now by putting some money into the place? I read lots of interesting ideas here about growing lime trees and even a small mushroom farm as a way of subsidising a lifestyle there, but as I said, I know nothing about farming.

The outcome I guess would be to grow enough fruit and vegetables to sustain ourselves whilst yielding enough for Mrs. Bruno to take to the local market and sell. Giving her enough of an income to save a little for herself and take care of her mother. I guess if she could earn an average of around 10 - 12,000 baht this would then be enough for her to get by.

I have divided opinions about this, so it would be great if others living in the country who grow and farm their own land, covertly of course, could pass on some information about living a self-sufficient life, in an otherwise beautiful part of the world.

I doubt 5 rai would be enough to support you. Sorry to say.

Bruno you say 10-12000 a month/year?

most isaan farmers struggle each year on there rice crop a year.

five rai is a not a lot, though saying that,depending on what you do, in the heat of the summer, its ball breaking work.

Saying that when i first went to live in the country, i hated it with a passion,anything i wanted to do always had negative comments.

One thing i have learnt from the country and i enjoy it now, never listen to the locals, if they are pointing out the negatives, find out yourself through your own research.

when i return we are going back to livestock, pigs chickens ducks and turkeys.

Pigs can be a good earner,as your local, when one of the locals die or having Tamboon its mostly pig they buy,you will be the first they come see,plus if you already have fruit on the land the pigs can eat the fallen crop.

chickens and ducks are also good if there fed properly, we used to have buyers coming from 40kms to buy are ducks.

turkeys could be good for the local farangs that live in the area.

if you plan on planting herbs salads, veg, be sure you land is fenced off, as most locals in the night time help themselves, if its on farm land.

Farming is not easy but if you do decide to become self sufficent its enjoyable to wake in the morning at dawn and just to spend and watch the crops and livestcok progress.

Five rai is about 2 acres of land.
Properly handled, that's enough to keep a family and have a small house on it.

Depending on quality of soil, and sufficient water, there is no reason why you can not sustain yourself on that land.
I mean that you can create a subsistence from that area of land sufficient for a small family.
You won't make a lot of money.

Judiciously planted fruit trees that you can harvest the fruit off and sell can be a small part of your cash crop.
Running stock between the trees is desirable, as they manure the ground, so pigs are a good idea,too.

You can run chickens with the pigs, free range, just keep them penned up at night until the first lay is over in the morning, 10 am.
Kakhi Campbell ducks lay in set places, and they travel around in lines, funny to watch, very predictable.
Ducks lay an average of 300 eggs a year per female, while chickens lay only about 200 a year.

Ducks'll eat all your grubs and insects in the vege gardens and won't eat the crops, while chooks will eat the lot, so either fence them off in high fenced3metre high areas or keep them in mobile chiken runs hich you can set up once a week, or clip their wings so they can't fly higher than two to three ft.

Grow as much as you can hydroponically, saves space and can triple the yield off the acreage.

Get a dozen or two bee hives and use them to pollinate your crops and the neighbours fruit trees, they'll be happy and so will you as the bees will give you honey, up to 20 kilos per hive per year.

Grow some trees such as papaya, banana, citrus and any other close to the house for food.
Keep the kitchen garden close to the house too.
Fence it off from the rest of the land if you have stock.

A set of two or three fish ponds will provide another cash crop, and act as a water reservoir.
The water will have to be cleaned out from time to time, use it to fertilise the trees or vegetable gardens.

These are all stock that you don't have to tend to and feed on a strict daily basis, lets you take off for a few days at a time and not worry about them dying and stuff.

The ONLY big problem you'll have is the thieving Thai neighbours who think that they can walk all over you and nick whatever they like with the excuse that it's their right.

Had a neighbour in Pai who would casually walk into my garden whenever he felt like it and take veges.
I went round to his place in return and helped myself to his papayas, coconuts and ganja.
I was going to help myself to his missus too, but stopped short of that.

He squawked a bit, but soon shut up, all the three women were on my side.
If you've got a fierce MIL, it's a blessing.

I also got a dog.

Good luck.

Just returned from a visit to the rural farm community. Just how isolated do you want to be?

What are your current interests?

Do you speak Thai?

Many farmers work in a sort of co-op with each other. Shared labor when planting and or harvesting.

Crop prices are always fluctuating. No guarantee on prices.

You have alternate income so you can survive the down periods?

I think you will not like the isolation from your normal routine, but why not give it a try. Go there and stay a month?

Good luck with your solution.

PS.
Make another income from craft or handywork, women love that sort of thing.
You won't be toiling competitively with neighbours if you keep the crops place diversified

Ha ha! You can get away with it sometimes, but you can't shout and yell, just do it as if it's your right and see the puzzled look on his face!
Definitely network, co-operate with the locals, go to the war, get well in with the Abbot, make donations publicly.

Above all smile, and don't be slow in throwing the odd party.

It all serves to keep the wolves away.

wheres the Co-op you know of? be interested i tried to get our village to do the same,they looked at me if i was from a different planet, the only time they help each other where we live is when theres money to be made.

Originally Posted by ltnt

Just returned from a visit to the rural farm community. Just how isolated do you want to be?

What are your current interests?

Do you speak Thai?

Many farmers work in a sort of co-op with each other. Shared labor when planting and or harvesting.

Crop prices are always fluctuating. No guarantee on prices.

You have alternate income so you can survive the down periods?

I think you will not like the isolation from your normal routine, but why not give it a try. Go there and stay a month?

Good luck with your solution.

Ye thats the fun of it, the Puzzled face on them.

Originally Posted by ENT

Ha ha! You can get away with it sometimes, but you can't shout and yell, just do itas if it's your right and see the puzzled look on his face!

Thais are as tricky as a cart load of monkeys, always attempting to pull a fast one on you with a look of total innocence!

ye agree with that 100%, though i see most things now before they happen, so makes it all the more amusing when i turn it around on them.

been there got stunk before, anything regarding money these days is Chanote up front and only 50% of the value, with down payment of 3 months taken out of the loan, stops them everytime LOL

All finances I leave up to my ladies, similarly networking with the locals, the wat, workers etc.
The mia luang is brilliant, finds work for me if I like it, fields all the awkward questions.

Originally Posted by Yasojack

Bruno you say 10-12000 a month/year?

Per month, hopefully. I do understand that farmers out that way do not earn a gret deal, so I wonder, is this figure realistic if you diversify the 5 rai well enough?

Originally Posted by Yasojack

chickens and ducks are also good if there fed properly, we used to have buyers coming from 40kms to buy are ducks.

That is really interesting. Currently she has around 12 ducks and the same number of chickens. Fortunately there is also a large pond with plenty of fish so lots of room for them to run around. Also, how much do duck eggs sell for in Isaan?

Originally Posted by ENT

Ducks'll eat all your grubs and insects in the vege gardens and won't eat the crops, while chooks will eat the lot, so either fence them off in high fenced3metre high areas or keep them in mobile chiken runs hich you can set up once a week, or clip their wings so they can't fly higher than two to three ft.

Grow as much as you can hydroponically, saves space and can triple the yield off the acreage.

Get a dozen or two bee hives and use them to pollinate your crops and the neighbours fruit trees, they'll be happy and so will you as the bees will give you honey, up to 20 kilos per hive per year.

Grow some trees such as papaya, banana, citrus and any other close to the house for food.
Keep the kitchen garden close to the house too.
Fence it off from the rest of the land if you have stock.

Really good information, thank you. I wonder, did you ever consider about writing a book with all this knowledge 'farang farmers'?

Ducks might be an idea, so too might a bee hive, although keeping them might prove slightly difficult as I have never done anything like this before.

Bruno, the most profitable way to farm is; first to feed yourself and family; second to feed the animals so you don't have to buy expensive feed, and 3rd if you do have anything left over to sell the extra money is nice. I prefer to feed myself and family and the animals without laying out any cash and then to work a part time job for the cash. That was the way I was living in the States after I retired. Living here in LOS is grown crops only to feed the family, for the fun of it. Animals are a no go if you must buy the feed. I raise Tilapia for our meat since we like mostly fish. Tilapia eat algae and very little feed plus they give me free fertilizer with the water for my garden.

Thanks Bruno.
Write a book about it?
Could do. I'm trying to get my biography together no, but got so much on my plate all i can do so far is arrange all the notes and ideas together in case i suddenly pop my clogs without an explanation!

Definitely crop diversification as a basis and get a little racket going that doesn't involve a lot of capital input and space and labour, don't be greedy and think of expanding businesses etc.

Think of ways to add extra saleable quality to what you've allready got.
For instance what can you make from the bees wax?
Corn husks, bamboo, any casual resources there.
Do you like wood turning, leatherworking, carving?Can you paint or draw?
Has your wife a sewing machine? Lots of scope for good Thai fashion!


Bees are not a problem to care for, if you're not allergic to their stings.
It'll only take you a week to learn the ropes of harvesting the honey and one year to see the whole cycle through, you'll know a lot by then. If there's anyone around who's done apiary in your district they'll be happy to show you the ropes.

Mushroom and worm farming is another angle, using rice husk and straw for compost.

Your ladies meaning you have a Mia noi as well LOL

Originally Posted by ENT

All finances I leave up to my ladies, similarly networking with the locals, the wat, workers etc.
The mia luang is brilliant, finds work for me if I like it, fields all the awkward questions.

A good alternative to buying feed for livestock is rice meal can be bought from the millers very cheaply, i used to alternate from day to day with feed then meal, helps licestock become healthy and better for selling, the more healthy your animals the more they produce.

Thai marital relationships are interesting.
It was Mia luang who introduced me to my Mia noi!

Originally Posted by Ceburat1

the most profitable way to farm is; first to feed yourself and family; second to feed the animals so you don't have to buy expensive feed, and 3rd if you do have anything left over to sell the extra money is nice.

Totally agree with you.

Whilst it would be too easy to let this thread run into one of those 'how much money can you make from........', the fact that being self-sufficient on 5 rai in indeed possible is the first step.

Lots of quality and useful information here so far that I'm sure many, many of us have considered before. I mean, how many of us are married or with a partner from Isaan who has interests back in their home communities, such as land. I think it will be inevitable that, if we are still together, I would find myself moving there at some point.

The whole concept of being self-sufficient does appeal to me greatly though, I must admit. That is why I wanted to see if anybody here is doing it, and if so, what kind of set-up do you have out in Isaan to feed yourselves?

Lucky man, wife keeps telling me i should find a mia noi or Gik but i knew what would happen, i would have a Katoey op whilst asleep

Originally Posted by ENT

Thai marital relationships are interesting.
It was Mia luang who introduced me to my Mia noi!

Mixed feed and grains is the best for livestock, but green feed is the best of all.

Running pigs free range among trees is a good method, but a good pen system will fatten them faster and can be very cost effective.
With a good slatted floor V-trough waste system built in, with pens above that, the collected pig-shit can be turned into methane and used to drive your car or for cooking.

The manure can then be spread onto the fields after the fermentation process is over, you can grow a grain crop on that, corn is the best, takes less water to grow than rice.
The corn can be put through a hammer mill and fed to the pigs, mixed with other grains, say peas or beans or rice.
One pint mug of meal per pig per day is enough to feed them as well as water, if kept in pens of 4-5 pigs per pen.

Little exercise, will see you making money out of the weaners at 2 months old and pork at a 6 months to 1 year old, keep a few breeding sows and one boar and you've got a viable financial system going for yourself.

The pigs can pop off like flies in a frost if you get swine fever or some such hit them, but if you keep the numbers down and clean them twice a day you'll have no problems, as the muck is washed into the V-troughs below and all that ends in a sewage tank fermenter. You have to of those, turn and turn about.

It used to take me about half an hour every morning and evening to feed and clean 100 pigs every day, and we never lost one.
This was in Queensland, so comparable temperatures to Thailand.

Something to remember if you wished to go native, it could be done very very cheaply, a lot of isaan find there food, and theres a lot that can be ate by them, as long as you have fish and rice, theres always something the villagers can find.

differnet seasons bring different wild foods.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Originally Posted by Ceburat1

the most profitable way to farm is; first to feed yourself and family; second to feed the animals so you don't have to buy expensive feed, and 3rd if you do have anything left over to sell the extra money is nice.

Totally agree with you.

Whilst it would be too easy to let this thread run into one of those 'how much money can you make from........', the fact that being self-sufficient on 5 rai in indeed possible is the first step.

Lots of quality and useful information here so far that I'm sure many, many of us have considered before. I mean, how many of us are married or with a partner from Isaan who has interests back in their home communities, such as land. I think it will be inevitable that, if we are still together, I would find myself moving there at some point.

The whole concept of being self-sufficient does appeal to me greatly though, I must admit. That is why I wanted to see if anybody here is doing it, and if so, what kind of set-up do you have out in Isaan to feed yourselves?

Yeh, neve fall asleep on the job!

The gik was also sanctioned by Mia luang and Mia noi, as they both worked making lotsa money for themselves and were too busy to talk with me during the day.

The gik is basically my friend who I get to **** sometimes.

They all know each other and are really polite to each other too.