Thread: Road show on rights of foreigners

Ministry of Interior holds road show on rights of foreigners in Thailand

By Shana Kongmun

The Ministry of Interior came to Chiang Mai Grandview Hotel on Thursday, June 16, 2010 to answer a few questions and to determine what expatriate residents, consulates and the media feel are needed changes in some of the fundamentals of life for foreigners in Thailand.

Deputy Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Interior Kwanchai Wongnitkorn opened the session asking for people to contribute their ideas freely to the symposium.

Deputy Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of the Interior Kwanchai Wongnitkorn opened the event by remarking to the crowd that this was the second such conference, one had been held in Bangkok in February and another was planned for Songkhla. He told the gathered crowd that included Mrs. Junko Yakata, the Japanese Consul General, Ben Svasti Thomson, the British Honourary Consul, Chinese Consul General Zhu Weimin, and other representatives of consulates in Chiang Mai that they had been assigned by the Ministry of Interior to discuss ideas. He said the Prime Minister Abhisit Vejajiva wanted the Ministry to see if the government has any room for improvement or anything it can extend to its expatriate residents to help promote investment and habitation rights.

The conferences are being held to collect information and suggestions that will be sent to a committee for refinement and then sent to the Cabinet for consideration. The goal, he said, “is to provide the best possible consistent system for everyone”.

He added, “they have to be plausible and feasible concepts that fall under the law, we can’t start everything new but we can come up with some reasonable propositions.”

The Director of the Foreign Affairs Division Tassana Vichaitanapat laid out the framework of the conference and the 5 major issues to be addressed; rights to nationality, immigration and habitation rights, right to work, investment rights and alien’s rights to property.

Director Tassana said, “We are trying to improve our legal framework. Part of our expectation is that we can develop frameworks about laws that foreigners can read.”

“The starting point,” he added, “is to hear your suggestions and recommendations. In our talks, we want to make sure that we will adhere to the law. We can think outside the box but our underlying focus is the legality of the propositions and that we understand our legal frameworks.”

The first issue of naturalization to Thai citizenship by foreigner was addressed by the Department of Provincial Administration representative. Foreigners must add themselves to the census registration (house registration, ie tabien ban). Holders of Permanent residency can get a blue book (Tor Ror 14) and holders of temporary visas can get on the yellow book (Tor Ror 13) before they can apply for naturalization. The Provincial Administration reiterated an important point, that foreigners have the right to be listed on the census registration, “It is not well known even among officials. We have contacted registration officials that you have this right and you should insist on it.”

The official discussed the inequalities facing Thai women married to foreigners stating that it is a cultural construct, “While we have equal rights under the Constitution, the law is different. Men are regarded as the head of the family in our culture, they need to be able to earn a living and support their wives.”

The requirements for naturalization were laid out, including the income requirements for both those married to Thais and those not married to Thais. The linguistics requirement has been reduced but the applicant must be able to sing the National and Royal anthems. Speaking and listening is mandatory but reading and writing is no longer required.

Application can be made to either the Special Branch Police department in Bangkok or the Provincial Police in the province the foreigner resides.

The official pointed out that if those people who naturalize as Thai citizens are found using the passport of their previous country the Thai citizenship will be revoked. Applicants must relinquish their previous nationality and the Ministry of Interior will report their cases to their embassies.

The next issue under discussion was Immigration and the right of habitation. Immigration officials discussed the various visas and how to obtain them as well as how to obtain Permanent Residency. The main issue of contention brought up by multiple Consul Generals, including Japanese Consul General Junko Yakata, was that of the 90 day reporting required of all foreigners on long stay visa extensions. Consul General Yakata told the officials that there are 3,000 Japanese nationals living in Northern Thailand. She requested a simplification of the process, perhaps by extending the length of time needed in between reports.

Chinese Consul General Zhu Weimin requested a change in the 90 day reporting procedure as well, citing the large numbers of Chinese students who attend Chiang Mai schools who cannot take time off from school to travel to Immigration to report. He suggested they open on the weekends for those who have jobs and classes.

The official justified the 90 day reporting by saying “it allows us the best possible protection. If someone goes missing then we have more recent information as to their whereabouts to give to the Embassy.”

The officials said they would consider amending the length of the report and might add reporting via the internet in the future.

Martin Venzky-Stalling of Chiang Mai University suggested they streamline their procedures to attract foreign investors. He recommended a business visa for those who come to conduct business in Thailand. He also suggested a form of a green card which contains both permanent residency and the right to work, and an extension for international students to stay on after they graduate to enable them to undertake internships or further job training.

The Labour Department was next, again citing the various regulations for work permits. Chris Hedges of the Chiang Mai Expats Club put forth a question that concerns many Chiang Mai residents; that of the definition of work and those retired expats who wish to volunteer to help in their new homes. The Labour Department official, while not refusing to put forth the idea to the committee stated, “Retirees are not here to work. Their visa is issued for one particular purpose and they have to adhere to that.”

Suggestions were put forth to amend this regulation as well as to implement a one stop service similar to that of Bangkok in Chiang Mai. The officials said that this would have to be approved by the Cabinet but that the suggestion would be put forth. Zhang Zhi Ren, Chinese Commercial Consul suggested that an accurate, updated website with different languages would be of great benefit as well as having officials who speak other languages.

Foreigners’ right to property was the final topic, with officials listing the requirements for owning and buying condos. Additionally, the spouse of a Thai person can inherit one rai of land for residential or commercial purposes or 10 rai of agricultural land if their Thai spouse dies. If the spouse held more than the requirement, then the foreign partner has one year to sell or to give away. Thai children can inherit from their parents, and foreign parents can buy land for their children if they are minors but must apply for a court ruling before purchasing.

Requests were made to make it easier for those living and working in Thailand to purchase a condo without having to bring money in from outside the country. Additionally, restrictions on condo ownership percentages were suggested to be relaxed.

The meeting concluded with Japanese Consul General Yakata saying,” We are encouraged that you come here to listen to our suggestions and we would like to know how they fare.”

Director Tassana ended by stating “We are here to take on your suggestions and to serve you to the best of our abilities. We will compile your questions and suggestions and submit them to a committee to see if we can address these issues.”

here's the link : Chiangmai Mail - Vol. IX No. 25 - Tuesday June 22 - June 28, 2010 &nbsp News

The official justified the 90 day reporting by saying “it allows us the best possible protection. If someone goes missing then we have more recent information as to their whereabouts to give to the Embassy.”

This bit is a joke, I was her for 3 years.
Only going 1 time per year for my nonB visa & not doing 90 day reporting.
They never come to check if I was still a live.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Ratchaburi

The official justified the 90 day reporting by saying “it allows us the best possible protection. If someone goes missing then we have more recent information as to their whereabouts to give to the Embassy.”

There are many things that could be improved for long stay visa regulations but modifying the 90 day reporting would be on top of my list.

Doing it on the internet would certainly help but simply changing the regulation to state "report must to be submitted within XX days if last reported address has changed". End result would be the same and just as enforceable as the 90 day rule. It would also cut down on paperwork by both immigration and the visa holder.

I now send my 90 day reporting by post.
I think that over the internet would be confucing for THai's

Originally Posted by Ratchaburi

I now send my 90 day reporting by post.

As do most but still an unnecessary, inefficient regulation.

Rights for foreigners: the Right to own a limited block of residential land.

It would sure stop a lot of murders.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

Being able to own the house and land you pay for would be a start.

Sure would and would benefit Thailand as a nation but Thai xenophobia regarding land ownership being what it is unlikely to happen soon.

^ I would have agreed with you on that but then I was surprise to read that a farang spouse can inherit 1rai residential in the event of the wife passing away. Never seen that mentioned anywhere before. I thought it was a case of only being allowed 1 year to transfer the property if it involved land. Anyone heard/confirm this?

Originally Posted by Isee

Anyone heard/confirm this?

Interesting question. Made me look.

"Foreigner’s Inheritance of Land in Thailand
If a foreigner inherits land, normally it will have to be transferred within one year to a Thai national. In the case that the land is not transferred, it may be subject to public auction."


Foreigner

^ Thanks, the mystery continues though. I would have pounced on that statement asking for specific reference if I was at the meeting.

That link did confirm my opinion of the ability to transfer leases (if its stated in the lease) thats being discussed in another thread.

Originally Posted by Isee

the mystery continues though.

Always does. Seems different legal sites have different opinions.

rights for farangs . this is a beautiful dream. just know i'm gonna wake up.

isn't it true that a farang can rent land to build on.
and if it is so ,,what advantages are there ?

Rights of Foreigners in Thailand?

Easy, according to most drunk expats bitching from their barstools : NONE!

According to most expats that do well for themselves, and are successful: PLENTY!

Why don't they just reciprocate what foreign nationals countries offer Thais in their countries?

Originally Posted by billy the kid

rights for farangs . this is a beautiful dream. just know i'm gonna wake up.

Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

According to most expats that do well for themselves, and are successful: PLENTY!

Let me see married to a Aussie bird with kids, take it up the ass big time, house cash and every thing else gone as well as your pay packet for half of your life

Married to a Thai bird, give her the house and car or take her to court and a good chance of taking 50% of that

i was thinking in terms of justice .
like if someone murders your best friend.

Originally Posted by jojo333

The official pointed out that if those people who naturalize as Thai citizens are found using the passport of their previous country the Thai citizenship will be revoked. Applicants must relinquish their previous nationality and the Ministry of Interior will report their cases to their embassies.

So the people who have jumped through all the hoops have to give up something worth much more than Thai citizenship, and yet Thais can hold dual nationality.

Originally Posted by Bung

Why don't they just reciprocate what foreign nationals countries offer Thais in their countries?

Agreed!

Originally Posted by chitown

Originally Posted by Bung

Why don't they just reciprocate what foreign nationals countries offer Thais in their countries?

Agreed!

Careful what you wish for. Given visa restrictions on Thais in most Western countries there would probably be a lot of posters from here who might find themselves no longer able to live here.

Originally Posted by billy the kid

isn't it true that a farang can rent land to build on.
and if it is so ,,what advantages are there ?

the advantage for the Thai landlord is to have a free building on his land once the 30years leasing expires.

^ Yes and no. It can be stated in the lease that any improvements to the land are the property of the lessee and to be removed prior to the expiry of the lease otherwise they attach to the land and becomes the property of the owner (or any other 'reasonable' variation you can think of).