steel and concrete

[phunphin]

I am planning a house that will have steel I beam posts for the main roof supports (single story). I intend to insert these into the foundations at a depth of @ 400mm , just like to know if this sounds ok to you professional builders.?
floor area is a basic 10 by 15m rectangle. and it will have a rear sloping flat roof.
Down here in suratthani granite can be had for 100bt per ton so i will use this to clad the exterior with q-con or brick for the interior walls.

I hope to start digging the foundation trenches in a couple of weeks or when it stops raining.!
Main query is has anyone constructed with steel and had any problem with regulations etc.?(steel beam is common for large commerical structures but i've not seen it used in houses here.(in nz quite common and trendy).
cheers.
Also any idea of cost of steel frame walls for gib board.??

[friscofrankie]

I intend to insert these into the foundations at a depth of @ 400mm

By this do yu mean embed the Steel column in concrete? Better to pour a proper concrete footing set a bolt-plate on top of the it with some rebar hooks welded on to tie it in to the mud and bolts welded through the plate and bolt the column to that. Concrete has shit strength in shear and is at it's best when stressed in compression. it is how I intend to build if I ever get around to it.

I've built factories, high-rise buildings large shops anda few other steel buildings we always bolted the steel frame sitting on the foundation. Embedding just won't hold the weight. even if you weld rebar along the embedded part, the weight supported will be pulling through the concrete not pushing down on it.

Bolting a single column to a footing is not real good for lateral strength though. Not so sure how critical this would be in your application. the point may be moot, but a better approach would be two or more columns with triangulation between them or even a cross beam about 25% of the height down from the top of the columns would be better than nothing. if there are many columns and they are tied together at the top tying a couple (as many as you can) together in this manner will make the structure less prone to "folding." by not embedding them you are also saving the cost of 40cm of steel per column. The base-plate(s) should be as thick as the rails of the beam.

I have no idea of the cost, but steel is relatively expensive here. I have discussed the idea of a traditional house (raised above the ground) using steel instead of concrete or wood with a could of Thai's. All I get is a quizzical look and the question, "Why? Steel is so expensive."

[stroller]

Main query is has anyone constructed with steel and had any problem with regulations etc.?

Regulations?
Steel beams are commonly used for roofs, reinforced concrete columns as you describe for the supporting structure. If memory serves me right, we had the foundations deeper than 40cm, but I haven't measured it, just let the guys get on with it. Columns are about 2.50 - 4m apart.

Sorry, I'm not a builder, but everything seems fine, wouldn't worry too much about it for a single storey.

[phunphin]

ok.. bolting to foundation it is..actually didn't think of that.
My idea is to tie all posts togeather with the common roof beams (6m ones)
and have an all steel ceiling and roof framework, as I can do the welding my self it will save on labour.
As the roof will be a flat shallow angle one, weight won't really be an issue.
There is currently a block of nine houses being built just down the road from me so i will be eagerly watching it's progress.

"There is actually a steel shop like 40 meters from my house, so supply is not a problem .I will get some prices and put them up later for you to digest."

[phunphin]

ok here is a rough materials list for 2 bedroom house to be built in suratthani, all hole digging and cementing to be done by me (will get help with welding ).
@20 cubic's of concrete-via truck NOT little men..!!
8 x 3m steel I beams
aprox 150 mtrs roofing steel, 250mtrs rebar
120 sheets plaster board + 70 mtrs(based on footprint) steel framing for plaster board
1x arc welder @7000bht
several tons of granite rock (for exterior cladding)
No time frame..

[dirtydog]

For the plaster board do a search on here for cline or c line, its an aluminum frame work for ceilings and wall partitions.

[phunphin]

thanks for that..knew it was out there , didn't know it's name..

Un title page

just found this,,in thai but good info.
http://www1.cementhaionline.com/CRC/...me_Partiti.jpg

and this..want to wall whole house with this.
These guys ae in BKK..
CHINNO SUPPLIES Co., Ltd

[blackgang]

There ain't no way that I would dig no fokin holes and work concrete, do no welding for a measley $2.70 a day wages or savings. Plus that I don't know what they gonna say when a Thai fingers you for doing a Thais job.

I do know in mexico they would bust your ass for doin anything on a job, even handing a beaner a hammer.

And being a certified welder in most countrys of the world, i ain't fokin around with this thin shit they call steel with a buzz box welder and the smallest you can get is AWS6013 2.6 mm rods..

[phunphin]

There ain't no way that I would dig no fokin holes and work concrete, do no welding for a measley $2.70 a day wages or savings. Plus that I don't know what they gonna say when a Thai fingers you for doing a Thais job.

I do know in mexico they would bust your ass for doin anything on a job, even handing a beaner a hammer.

And being a certified welder in most countrys of the world, i ain't fokin around with this thin shit they call steel with a buzz box welder and the smallest you can get is AWS6013 2.6 mm rods..

home pro has welpro arc welders and 1.6 mm rods and up. I have done concrete work on the family resort as well as painting etc.
no ones really gives a toss, as long as they can watch you work.

[blackgang]

Pobly not as long as they are getting paid.
I checked all the suppliers around here and 2.6 -6013 is the only one they said they can get, even online I can not find any, and we don't have a home pro.
But I still would not work in this heat, well even if it wasn't hot for 2.70 for a 10 hr day.

[friscofrankie]

AWS6013 2.6 mm rods..

I noticed this here have never seen any 6010 or xx18 rod here. Do they even use the AWS specs here? Do remember seeing some stuff that looked, welded and smelled like 6013. I could waked by a jobsite the other day and could swear they were welding structures with a xx10 rod.

[phunphin]

Ok just been down to the local steel shop..and got some prices for steel.
a 6" [ beam 6mtrs long goes for 656 per meter
a 4" [ beam 6mtrs long goes for 480 per mter
and a 3" [ is 300-400 depending on strength.
there are about 4 different grades,but price only varies by 1-200 baht.
I beams sell by weight and a 6 meter 12"x6" is 8,500.
and 6"x3" @ 3,500 for 6 meters.
Looking at @ 50,000 for steel works.


Been looking at BPB thai gypsum and if there prices are to be beleived I can frame (metal GypFrame) a 10x12 meter house (2 bedrooms 2 bathrooms) open plan living for an incredible 2000 baht, this doesn't include wall board which would be roughly 25,000 for 105 sheets.
Intire house to be gibbed with wet wall in bathroom and laundry area.
Now just have to pay for it...!!

[blackgang]

Frankie, yea, all the stuff I have seen has the AWS codes on it and most rods used around here is 2.6mm AWS6013, I have tried to get some 6011 which as I think you know is AC rods and 6010 is DC, I had 40 Thai welders, pipe cert. when they came to Iraq so must be or has been some here, 6010 was all we used on the INOC terminal at Basra.
And I have seen some 7016 and 7018 here also and lots of Ni Rods.
I have even tried to have Lincoln ship me some 1/16 or 3/32 6011 but so far have had no luck. also none of the small Lincoln innershield or dual shield wire welders like I had in the states, they are all 120V ac and none for this 220V stuff, can get a MIG but they are to big to take up on the steel with you.
One of those little Lincoln wire rigs would be just the cats ass for this steel they use here, shit with mine I could weld a car door together.

[phunphin]

Has anyone used c-line framing , and do you recall the cost?.
price on the above mentioned site does not say if it is per item or per pack (10)?? is 100 baht too cheap for 10 metal studs???..

[dirtydog]

c line walls 450baht per square meter is the normal price.

[phunphin]

c line walls 450baht per square meter is the normal price.

Is that inclusive of wallboard,? one side or both?.

[dirtydog]

Both sides, thats what a company will charge for fitting, labour and materials.