Thread: A note of caution for those with deposits in US Banks

^ why ? if there is a bailout, the government will guarantee the deposits, no need to rush

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ why ? if there is a bailout, the government will guarantee the deposits, no need to rush

Butterfly gives guarantees now!

Anyway, so much for guarantees:

Uk Investors Shut Out As Icelandic Bank Admits It Cannot Safeguard British Cash

More than 200,000 British investors in the internet bank Icesave were last night shut out from a guarantee to protect 100 per cent of their savings.

In a short statement, the Icelandic government said it would fully guarantee deposits in domestic banks.

But heads of Landsbanki, which runs Icesave, admitted that its UK-based savers would not get the same protection for their £4.5billion investments should it go bust.

Icelandic internet bank stops British customers making withdrawals after it admits: 'We can't safeguard your cash' | Mail Online

New message on Icesave website:

We are not currently processing any deposits or any withdrawal requests through our Icesave internet accounts. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause our customers. We hope to provide you with more information shortly.

icesave - high interest savings accounts

Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC
Industry: Commer Banks Non-USAdd Security to your Watch List


05:01 London Currency: GBp



Price102.500
Change-45.600
% Change-30.790

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Oh, dear the Ruskies appear to want to own Iceland.

Landsbanki in receivership, board dismissed -radio



REYKJAVIK, Oct 7 (Reuters) - Iceland has dismissed the board of directors of Landsbanki (LAIS.IC: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and has put the Icelandic bank in receivership, a minister told state radio on Tuesday.

Commerce and banking minister Bjorgvin Sigurdsson said the move was made in cooperation with Landsbanki and the bank would be open and run as normal while the changes were taking place.

Sigurdsson said Iceland's Financial Supervisory Authority had put its own people in place of the bank's board.

Late Monday, Iceland adopted sweeping powers over its battered banks as its financial system tottered and its currency plunged.

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Butterfly gives guarantees now!

oh yeah, I am going to guarantee all UK deposits

another of your silly claim, do you ever stop making up shit ?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Butterfly gives guarantees now!

oh yeah, I am going to guarantee all UK deposits

another of your silly claim, do you ever stop making up shit ?

When you stop giving false assurances. You fail to understand the gravity of this financial collapse, yet give bland assurances to the board. You should be ashamed.

On a side note, just got in and the DOW down a further 430 points to 9600, most UK banks to be part-nationalised and the 330000 Icesave account holders hung out to dry.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

damn, DOW recovering already

Europe got battered though, about fucking time

as expected, USD going strong now. Wouldn't be surprised if we see the DOW recovering by the end of week !!! it's hilarious

Are you sure about this?

DOW closing figures today:

9447 - Down 508.

It started the week at 10313 (IIRC). As things stand it will need a 10% leap to achieve your prediction. Are you still sure?

Events are moving so fast now that I cannot give individual posts for each and every development. For this reason, Summaries are now in order. As they are summaries, forgive E&OE...

Brown in the UK has agreed a part nationalisation of most UK banks. This includes Barclays, RBS (inc. NatWest and Ulster Bank), HBOS and Lloyds TSB. Details are expected prior to FTSE opening at 08.00 BST.

Icelandic banks now preventing savers withdrawing funds. The cascade of default now begins (a few days earlier than I predicted), where they will be unable to pay their debts to savers, other banks and other counterparties. Iceland itself (despite Russia's 4BN EURO loan) appears to be heading for default. Consequential debt defaults (for those with funds decimated by this failure) could pop up anywhere. This includes the Chairman and owner of West Ham, who appears to be about to be declared bankrupt. ('Cue I'm forever blowing bubbles'?)

Truely terrible day for the US markets. Bank of America down 26%, Citi down 13%. Overall the DOW down well over 5%. The realisation of complete failure of the US and worldwide financial system is now nearing common knowledge (apart from Butterfly World).

Merkel in Germany now warming back to a 100% guarantee for depositors. If formalised, this will devastate Irish banks, reversing the life-saving funds inflow over the last week since the Irish deposit guarantees. I repear that Ireland CANNOT afford to make good on their guarantees, as they are in a similar position to Iceland in this regard.

Tomorrow is a crucial day.

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Brown in the UK has agreed a part nationalisation of most UK banks. This includes Barclays, RBS (inc. NatWest and Ulster Bank), HBOS and Lloyds TSB. Details are expected prior to FTSE opening at 08.00 BST.

Well, that's a good thing, so I guess they will not fail after all as you claimed !!! I thought they were all going to default on deposits and the credit cards would stop working

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Icelandic banks now preventing savers withdrawing funds.

not, they are not. Only a UK branch got fucked, that's hardly EVERY bank in Iceland !!! again making up claims. Another of your extrapolation.

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Truely terrible day for the US markets. Bank of America down 26%, Citi down 13%. Overall the DOW down well over 5%. The realisation of complete failure of the US and worldwide financial system is now nearing common knowledge (apart from Butterfly World).

Well, Banks stocks are fucked so there is a huge re-adjustment of portfolios for those securities. Perfectly understandable, but that's hardly mean that the "financial" system is in collapse. Bank Stocks is not the Financial system.

Let's hope that the DOW reach 6,000 but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Brown in the UK has agreed a part nationalisation of most UK banks. This includes Barclays, RBS (inc. NatWest and Ulster Bank), HBOS and Lloyds TSB. Details are expected prior to FTSE opening at 08.00 BST.

Well, that's a good thing, so I guess they will not fail after all as you claimed !!! I thought they were all going to default on deposits and the credit cards would stop working

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Icelandic banks now preventing savers withdrawing funds.

not, they are not. Only a UK branch got fucked, that's hardly EVERY bank in Iceland !!! again making up claims. Another of your extrapolation.

I hate your lies and really cannot be bothered to respond to them, but this is simply disgraceful. Landsbaski is essentially an Internet bank (trading name Icesave). Its fucking shut you prick. Just look at the front page of their website. There have been thousands of people phoning TV and radio stations wailing they have lost £xxx thousand.

If you don't understand things, you really should not comment on them.

Icesave's website:

icesave - high interest savings accounts

This from Landbanski.co.uk homepage "Creative, Positive, Sustainable"

^And even the UK Chancellor is on Radio 5 (discussing his mega bank bailout - details to follow) saying he is angry with Iceland leaving savers high and dry by forcing them to "try their luck in the Icelandic Courts".

He DIDN'T say he was helping out though...

Originally Posted by Spin

This from Landbanski.co.uk homepage "Creative, Positive, Sustainable"

555 - good one!

Creative - sure, nab the cash and hide behind a vulcano!
Positive - For opponents of West Ham FC perhaps.
Sustainable - I think they missed the "un" there.

U.K. to Inject About $87 Billion in Country's Banks (Update1)


By Ben Livesey




Oct. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Prime Minister Gordon Brown's government will invest about 50 billion pounds ($87 billion) in an unprecedented step to prevent a collapse of the U.K. banking system.

As part of the plan, the government will buy preference shares, and the Bank of England will make at least 200 billion pounds available for banks to borrow under the so-called special liquidity plan, the Treasury said in a Regulatory News Service statement today. The government will also provide a guarantee of about 250 billion pounds to help refinance debt.

The steps to partially nationalize the banking industry provide ``the necessary building blocks to allow banks to return to their basic function of providing cash and investment for families and businesses,'' Chancellor of the Exchequer Alistair Darling said in a statement.

More here:

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

Originally Posted by Spin

Worldwide rout continues unabated.

Apart from the oasis of utopia that is Butterfly Word.

The UK Treasury said it will protect the retail depositors in two Icelandic-owned banks: Icesave, a UK-based branch of Landsbanki, and Heritable, a UK-based banking unit of Landsbanki.

Thats good news for a lot of people, Im pleased to hear that the treasury are doing something to help the man on the street.

link

^If you are so confident of their success, go an open an account with them.

Icesave was over 70% of their deposits. No Icesave, no bank. As has happened. You are just like that Iraqi information minister denying the US military advance even when the tanks could be seen out of the window. I suspect that when your own ATM card fails you will lecture all those around you that, in fact, it isn't a 'real' failure and that it could be called 'a success' that your card is being rejected.

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Icesave was over 70% of their deposits.

link ?

^I have their 2007 Annual Report on my desk. It isn't published on the net.

Anyway, summary of the day:

Iceland move closer to Sovereign debt default, althought denied by their PM. The remaining two main banks nationalised, however Krauptung Edge's savings hived off to ING (UK). Ripple effects now felt - although UK Chancellor promises to compensate UK savers who have lost their money (and take 'legal action' against Iceland - good luck with that!), but it then turns out that many local councils had Council Tax money in Icesave accounts - oops!

Interestingly, it seems that Pakistan has come up on the rails and intends to beat Iceland in the race to first to default. And they have nukes!

The £500BN UK bailout (40% of GDP!!!) of all the main UK banks is a bold move. It really exposes the Paulson plan as being too little, too late. By way of comparison, scaled up just to match GDP, the Paulson Plan would need to be IRO $5TRILLION. And this does not account for a significant number of analysts in London today calling the UK's bailout 'not enough'.

Is it enough? Well, that all depends on the UK housing market, which has so far fallen 15% yoy. The value was $8TRILLION in 2007, so this has declined by $1.2TRILLION in the yoy figure (to date). Assuming that distressed sale reductions from average prices negate average unaffected equity, the bailout doesn't even cover year to-date falls, if and when it turns to bad mortgage debt. Going forward, a further 15% yoy fall will mean significant bailout funds would be required during the next 6 months due to the domestic losses alone. If the crash gathers pace (more likely, given rising unemployment and lack of ability for home owners to remortgage) to say 30% (this year's California yoy figure), then an additional bailout to the order of $2TRILLION would be required. All of these figures do not take into account banking losses from corporate, personal unsecured debt, foreign bad debt, such as the US CDO's that started the credit crunch, etc., etc.

As the markets digest the differential between (a) the differing magnitude of the UK bailout and the Paulson Plan and (b) the likelihood of inadequacy of even the UK's bailout, the closer we get to complete capitulation.

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Originally Posted by Butterfly

damn, DOW recovering already

Europe got battered though, about fucking time

as expected, USD going strong now. Wouldn't be surprised if we see the DOW recovering by the end of week !!! it's hilarious

Are you sure about this?

DOW closing figures today:

9447 - Down 508.

It started the week at 10313 (IIRC). As things stand it will need a 10% leap to achieve your prediction. Are you still sure?

So, are you still sure about this? DOW closed down 189 at 9258 and the current futures market puts it down another 64 at 9163. That would mean a recovery of 12.5% tomorrow and Friday for your prediction to come to pass...

Final note on Iceland, namely that there are now widespread reports of the krona now being refused as a method of payment in Iceland following abandoned attempts to put a floor under its falling currency by fixing the exchange rate. A full-scale breakdown is upon us there, bank cards useless and the local currency worthless and rebuffed.

An AP article with some earlier news (including all the stuff that doesn't exist in Butterfly World):

The Associated Press: Iceland struggles, abandons fixed exchange rate

Icelands three biggest banks have now been taken over by the government and total debt is around 61 $billion
In 2007, Iceland's GDP was 11.7 billion dollars.
Not long now.....
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