Thread: Questions

Originally Posted by keda

Hey Macha, are these indications of a real intelligent bloke or a charlatan manipulating peasant masses...?

...

Happy new year, if your prophet consents, and hope you had a great Xmas whether you wanted to or not.

Yes Xmas, a traditional holiday celebrating the birth of a baby to a married woman who was a virgin, apparently, who then grew up and turned out to be the son of god, was executed and got up for a stroll a few days later, and in between did a load of stuff like feeding thousands of people with some bread and fish, walking on water, and asking his followers to eat his body and drink his blood...

And you're taking Macha to task on the Quran?

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

You can observe the planets all moving away from each-other in a manner consistent with them all starting in the same place.

In the tiny part of the Universe that we can observe this appears to be the case. Our understanding of the Universe is still really very limited however and may well change entirely over the next century. Maybe groups of stars expand and contract over time and what we are witnessing is a one-million year contraction in our part of the Universe with another group of stars contracting elsewhere.

I'll ask Stephen Hawking the next time I see him.

Originally Posted by machangezi

Now who could have told this to Mohammed P.B.U.H ( a shepard) around 1400 years ago??

I think you have got the wrong impression of this fella Mohammed...He might have been a shepard, but he also had child-rapist and mass murder on his CV.

^^ Good point, because if we accept that the universe is infinite, then we can only ever understand a part of it that is infinitely small in terms of ratio.

For example, the 'big bang' theory is based upon matter spreading out and away in all directions from a central point. It is pointless to try to apply an overall explanation of the creation of the universe to such an observation, because the event itself is meaningless in context of an infinite universe.

As to whether there are cyclicle 'big bangs' is another issue. We know that entire galaxies tend to collide into each other every now and then and, of course, this brings enormous energy with it. Perhaps when sufficient energy is compressed within a 'black hole', it ultimately generates a cataclysmic explosion.

However:

1. If we assume that the universe is infinite, we must also assume that it can never occur that all matter can collapse and ultimately result in a 'big bang'.

2. If we assume that the universe has always existed (in an eternity), then the universe cannot have been created by a 'big' bang' since it was already in existence.

This is where it becomes convenient to consider Einstein's theory and its application to Hawking's rejection of the basic Big Bang singularity theory (which requires a 'closed' universe). Once we can come to grips with the concepts of eternity and infinity, perhaps we can then understand the concept of a creator. Until then, there will be many who continue to view our humble religious conventions as being akin to believing in a flat earth.

Originally Posted by machangezi

Who could have mentioned this in the 1400 years ago??

We have a tendency to underestimate the amount of knowledge the ancients had lost to us over time. I believe the Quran and other writings contain a great deal of what was either known or theorized by the learned of the time.

Originally Posted by Dalton

Originally Posted by machangezi

Now who could have told this to Mohammed P.B.U.H ( a shepard) around 1400 years ago??

I think you have got the wrong impression of this fella Mohammed...He might have been a shepard, but he also had child-rapist and mass murder on his CV.

Does this reply have anything to do with the question posed, or are you just pissing on this thread and feel you're being clever or someit?

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Ping

If we assume that the universe is infinite

Then all things are true. If the universe is infinite, then there are infinite numbers of Earths that have infinite numbers of identical people. We as a species are incapable of contemplating such a possibility so we must be content to create a universe through science and religion, we can understand.

Unless, like Pi (being an 'irrational' number), it is infinitely unique (more or less)...

Originally Posted by Ping

Unless, like Pi (being an 'irrational' number), it is infinitely unique (more or less)...

Ad infinitum.

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

I'd like to, but i can't believe in something that i don't understand.

Do you have a microwave?

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Yes Xmas, a traditional holiday celebrating the birth of a baby to a married woman who was a virgin....

Christmas is a pagan holiday rooted in Zoroastrianism, Yule celebrations in Scandinavia, and other pagan rituals.

Real Christians don't celebrate Christmas.

If they do, they celebrate it, as a pagan holiday.

Many Pagen holidays were changed to Christen festivals after the roman crusades, when Christianity spreed from Rome. If you have a look at many of the church's they have from that time and now, they have many pagan symbols on them, the reason for this is the romans could only get so called pagen converts to build many of thier churches thoughout Euorope, and hence, still being pagans at heart, placed these symbols that were adopted along with the festivals by the Christians.

Originally Posted by stroller

Does this reply have anything to do with the question posed, or are you just pissing on this thread and feel you're being clever or someit?

Compared to the reli-nutters, then I'm freaking Einstein...

Originally Posted by Dalton

Originally Posted by machangezi

Now who could have told this to Mohammed P.B.U.H ( a shepard) around 1400 years ago??

I think you have got the wrong impression of this fella Mohammed...He might have been a shepard, but he also had child-rapist and mass murder on his CV.

If you think that you are a fool.

Originally Posted by Norton

If the universe is infinite, then there are infinite numbers of Earths that have infinite numbers of identical people.

Anything is possible therefore the Quran speaks in riddles and it also encourages doing research on your own.

Originally Posted by machangezi

If you think that you are a fool.

Am I..........I dont think so.

Originally Posted by Dalton

Originally Posted by machangezi

If you think that you are a fool.

Am I..........I dont think so.

Why would you think that he committed rape and mass murder?

^ Dalton,

In issues we need a link for articles.


Thanks.

The Qaran also states that the earth is flat:

A Flat Earth: The Islamic Perspective « K H A L A S !

Originally Posted by Milkman

In issues we need a link for articles.

Sorry, dident know that.

Originally Posted by TizMe

The Qaran also states that the earth is flat:

A Flat Earth: The Islamic Perspective « K H A L A S !

This is what a major Muslim scholar has to say about the topic. Some of the verses in the link provided by you are also explained.

1. Earth made as a carpet

The question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in Surah Nuh:

“And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).” [Al-Qur’an 71:19]

But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says:

“That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.” [Al-Qur’an 71:20]


A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:

“He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)....” [Al-Qur’an 20:53]


The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Qur’an rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.


2. Carpet can also be spread on other than an absolute flat surface

Not a single verse of the Qur’an says that the earth is flat. The Qur’an only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.


Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Qur’an describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Qur’an is thus not only logical; it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.


3. Earth has been spread out Similarly, the Qur’an says in several verses that the earth has been spread out.

“And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!” [Al-Qur’an 51:48]


Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:

“Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse” “And the mountains as pegs?” [Al-Qur’an 78:6-7]


None of these verses of the Qur’an contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Qur’an says:

“O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!” [Al-Qur’an 29:56]


Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.


4. Earth is geospherical in shape

The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:

“And we have made the earth egg shaped”. [Al-Qur’an 79:30]


The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.


Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony.

Originally Posted by TizMe

The Qaran also states that the earth is flat:

A Flat Earth: The Islamic Perspective « K H A L A S !

Until 1492, it was believed the world must be flat in order that those on the other side might not fail to witness the Second Coming.

Thanks for the link, didn't know there were cretins that believed it all the way to 1933...blimey they got front like a camel's got cnut.