Thread: When WW III Started

A story from a book is the basis for the existence of a modern state? No wonder the place is up in smoke.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

When WW III Started........1979


AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. Embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.

America's military had been decimated and down sized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later in 1983 a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, anoth er van was driven into the gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

Then in August 1985 a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US int erests are continually attacked.

Fifty-nine days later in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in1988, killing 259.

Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.

The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The following month, February1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the WorldTradeCenter in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November1995 a car bomb explodes at a U S military complex in RiyadhSaudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the KhobarTowers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.. These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missi le attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from very high officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to seethe pattern that has been developing since 1979.

I think we have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough. America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever.. We have to be ready to pay th e price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

(Captain Ouimette)

YAWN. By the way, where's the focking yawn emoticon?

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

The OP was full of references to US citizens (not Americans), mostly military, killed in the Middle East, and made to portray the US as the victim.

How about someone listing up the number of people killed as a result of US intervention in same region? Or the number of people killed by US-backed juntas, paramilitary gerillias and terrorists. Just to put the matter in perspective. 11th of September 2001 pales in comparison - unless the lives of US citizens are more valuable than those of others.

But surely no one believes that, do they?

Gotta keep the oil of commerce flowing, bud!

...and the commerce of oil!

Originally Posted by surasak

How many Marines, soldiers, sailors, and American citizens have died because we support Israel? How many more must die?

So are you basically anti-Semitic then ? You've rambled on the last couple of days about the Jews but haven't really made it clear why you think it's a crime to support the Jews.

Do you deny that the Jews have pretty much been persecuted for centuries ? What's changed ? Hasn't the President of Iran even said recently the Jews should be wiped from the face of the earth ? Do you support this contention.

Sounds to me like you say death is deserved for those who support the Jews. Is that what you're saying ?

Let's get this clear: I oppose 100% our support of the state of Israel and I disagree 100% with the tactics of the state of Israel when it comes to the disporportionate way the IDF deals with problems.

I don't know why people like you equate opposition to support for Israel or the tactics of the Israeli government as the equivalent of anti-Semitism because it's not the same thing. Is hating the U.S. government or the actions of the U.S. government the equivalent of being anti-Christian?

I just don't get what's so cuddly and fluffy about a possibly illegitimate country of 6,000,000 being so important that we have to spend hundreds of billions of dollars supporting them and making innocent Americans target for those who oppose Israel.

How many more WTC bombings do we need before people get tired of taking losses for supporting Israel? How many U.S. military personnel have died for nothing because we support Israel? How many more billions of dollars must we waste on that useless nation before enough is enough?

If Israelis can't swim on their own maybe they ought not to be swimming in the first place. I'm tired of American losses both civilian and military because we support a country most people hate in the first place. I'm tired of the money wasted there. Hundreds of billions of dollars.

Maybe I don't sympathize with them because I'm not a Christian. I think it's a fools folly to support a nation whose only legitimacy is based on a story in a book and handouts from a confused superpower. Dangerous and stupid.

You know, I never felt this way until it become known that the Chinese aircraft who forced down our spy plane on Hainan Island were using missiles made and sold by Israel to China. Since then, I have been 100% opposed to our support of Israel and have taken the side of the Arabs in the conflict.

I find it hard to believe that any member/veteran of the U.S. armed forces could support Israel when they are selling weapons to our enemies. For shame.

And did you know the Jewish population of the U.S. is larger than that of Israel? It's not the Jews we disapprove of. It's Zionism which is the biggest threat to stability.

Originally Posted by surasak

Let's get this clear: I oppose 100% our support of the state of Israel and I disagree 100% with the tactics of the state of Israel when it comes to the disporportionate way the IDF deals with problems.

I don't know why people like you equate opposition to support for Israel or the tactics of the Israeli government as the equivalent of anti-Semitism because it's not the same thing. Is hating the U.S. government or the actions of the U.S. government the equivalent of being anti-Christian?

I just don't get what's so cuddly and fluffy about a possibly illegitimate country of 6,000,000 being so important that we have to spend hundreds of billions of dollars supporting them and making innocent Americans target for those who oppose Israel.

How many more WTC bombings do we need before people get tired of taking losses for supporting Israel? How many U.S. military personnel have died for nothing because we support Israel? How many more billions of dollars must we waste on that useless nation before enough is enough?

If Israelis can't swim on their own maybe they ought not to be swimming in the first place. I'm tired of American losses both civilian and military because we support a country most people hate in the first place. I'm tired of the money wasted there. Hundreds of billions of dollars.

Maybe I don't sympathize with them because I'm not a Christian. I think it's a fools folly to support a nation whose only legitimacy is based on a story in a book and handouts from a confused superpower. Dangerous and stupid.

All I can say to this is ... WOW ! Parts of this are very extremist.

^ SK, it's not extremist at all.

Is that the best response you can come up with. I love your one-liners whe your back us up against the wall.

I rarely, rarely feel like this forum or ajarn ever had me in a position with my back against the wall. Period ...ever. What I learn most about posting in this forum and on ajarn is that there are a lot of egocentric, racist and delusional people in the expat world. I've never, ever strayed from thinking you are one of the most pathetic posters I've encountered.

Back on topic:

So, where was the left when suicide bombers were killing Israeli citizens? You guys can complain all you want about the wrongs committed by Israel, but you guys did jack shit when Israel was being bombed. In fact, some of the more hard-core lefties were blaming Israel for the attacks.

Originally Posted by surasak

If Israelis can't swim on their own maybe they ought not to be swimming in the first place.

Milkdud ... take note of this line ... I don't think surasak would want you to help him ...

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Originally Posted by surasak

Let's get this clear: I oppose 100% our support of the state of Israel and I disagree 100% with the tactics of the state of Israel when it comes to the disporportionate way the IDF deals with problems.

I don't know why people like you equate opposition to support for Israel or the tactics of the Israeli government as the equivalent of anti-Semitism because it's not the same thing. Is hating the U.S. government or the actions of the U.S. government the equivalent of being anti-Christian?

I just don't get what's so cuddly and fluffy about a possibly illegitimate country of 6,000,000 being so important that we have to spend hundreds of billions of dollars supporting them and making innocent Americans target for those who oppose Israel.

How many more WTC bombings do we need before people get tired of taking losses for supporting Israel? How many U.S. military personnel have died for nothing because we support Israel? How many more billions of dollars must we waste on that useless nation before enough is enough?

If Israelis can't swim on their own maybe they ought not to be swimming in the first place. I'm tired of American losses both civilian and military because we support a country most people hate in the first place. I'm tired of the money wasted there. Hundreds of billions of dollars.

Maybe I don't sympathize with them because I'm not a Christian. I think it's a fools folly to support a nation whose only legitimacy is based on a story in a book and handouts from a confused superpower. Dangerous and stupid.

All I can say to this is ... WOW ! Parts of this are very extremist.

Did you bother to read the part about Israel providing China with AA missiles...missiles that can be used against America in any future conflict? Do you know what country provides China with military technology and design for new weapons? Israel.

Doesn't it bother you that American soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen could be killed by Chinese forces using Israeli arms (which, ironically, were paid for by American taxpayers)? It makes me extremely angry. Angry enough to have stopped supporting Israel in 2001.

It makes me angrier still that over 3,000 Americans died later in 2001 due to our misguided policy in the Middle East. Why are we alienating those who provide our oil and befriending the one who the rest hate makes little sense to me.

Maybe you can explain why we should support a nation that uses our money to sell arms and military technology to our enemy?

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

I rarely, rarely feel like this forum or ajarn ever had me in a position with my back against the wall. Period ...ever. What I learn most about posting in this forum and on ajarn is that there are a lot of egocentric, racist and delusional people in the expat world. I've never, ever strayed from thinking you are one of the most pathetic posters I've encountered.

Thanks for the kind words, SK.

Back on topic:

So, where was the left when suicide bombers were killing Israeli citizens? You guys can complain all you want about the wrongs committed by Israel, but you guys did jack shit when Israel was being bombed. In fact, some of the more hard-core lefties were blaming Israel for the attacks.

It's common in the American media to label critics of Israel with being left-wing. But this isn't true (see the most recent article by Maerstein).

As for the suicide bombings, they are a terrible things. But the suicide bombings in Israel were carried about by Hamas over the right of return issue.

Suicide bombings are terrible, but it's the only way to fight the Israeli government and military which get 2 billion USD per year in military aid, and an additional 1 billion per year to spend on anything it wants.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

So, where was the left when suicide bombers were killing Israeli citizens? You guys can complain all you want about the wrongs committed by Israel, but you guys did jack shit when Israel was being bombed. In fact, some of the more hard-core lefties were blaming Israel for the attacks.

Because Israel is the occupier. Occupiers tend to have casualties in war. This doesn't make it right, and, neither is is right that the IDF kill civilians at a 4:1 ratio to Israeli deaths.

You just don't seem to want to acknowledge that Hizbollah started this mess. They didn't occupy shit before the loonies kidnapped the soldiers for no reason. The Israelis have withdrawn farther and farther ... have tried to appease the liberal PC crowd the world over ... and what does it get them ? More attacks and the incredulous support of terrorist sypmathizers the world over.

So, where was the left when suicide bombers were killing Israeli citizens? You guys can complain all you want about the wrongs committed by Israel, but you guys did jack shit when Israel was being bombed. In fact, some of the more hard-core lefties were blaming Israel for the attacks.

This is so fucking pathetic! It's too bad that the "violence is never acceptable" crowd were silent when Israel was hit repeatable times.

The blood is on Hezbollah's hands, not Israel's. As I said once already ...
Naturally, the people on the dark side of the left condemn Israel, but not the terrorists for the very same action.

Originally Posted by surasak

Let's get this clear: I oppose 100% our support of the state of Israel and I disagree 100% with the tactics of the state of Israel when it comes to the disporportionate way the IDF deals with problems.

I don't know why people like you equate opposition to support for Israel or the tactics of the Israeli government as the equivalent of anti-Semitism because it's not the same thing. Is hating the U.S. government or the actions of the U.S. government the equivalent of being anti-Christian?

I just don't get what's so cuddly and fluffy about a possibly illegitimate country of 6,000,000 being so important that we have to spend hundreds of billions of dollars supporting them and making innocent Americans target for those who oppose Israel.

How many more WTC bombings do we need before people get tired of taking losses for supporting Israel? How many U.S. military personnel have died for nothing because we support Israel? How many more billions of dollars must we waste on that useless nation before enough is enough?

If Israelis can't swim on their own maybe they ought not to be swimming in the first place. I'm tired of American losses both civilian and military because we support a country most people hate in the first place. I'm tired of the money wasted there. Hundreds of billions of dollars.

Maybe I don't sympathize with them because I'm not a Christian. I think it's a fools folly to support a nation whose only legitimacy is based on a story in a book and handouts from a confused superpower. Dangerous and stupid.

I agree, except I don't care how many stupid Americans die.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

You just don't seem to want to acknowledge that Hizbollah started this mess.

Wrong. Israel started this whole apratheid mess.

They didn't occupy shit before the loonies kidnapped the soldiers for no reason.

Ture. The Israelis didn't occupy sh*t before they stole the land.

So, where was the left when suicide bombers were killing Israeli citizens?

Not about left and right in the U.S. - its about land and Right of Return.

You guys can complain all you want about the wrongs committed by Israel, but you guys did jack shit when Israel was being bombed. In fact, some of the more hard-core lefties were blaming Israel for the attacks.

What era are you talking about? We are all confused?

The blood is on Hezbollah's hands, not Israel's.

Can give us specific evidence?

Total bollocks ... that land belonged to the Israelis before the Muslims stole it in the first place. And to use the logic you follow would mean people like the Americnas and Australians should be kicked out of those countries and turned over to the Aborigines and the Indians.

Are there any Christian churches in Thailand ... seems you guys are going to chase me back to the church after nearly 3 decades so I can find a few friends.

Sorry. But none of you have presented any logical reasons to favor the Muslims over the Israelis in this tired as tiff over land that rightlfully belonged to Israel in thie first place.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Total bollocks ... that land belonged to the Israelis before the Muslims stole it in the first place. And to use the logic you follow would mean people like the Americnas and Australians should be kicked out of those countries and turned over to the Aborigines and the Indians.

Are there any Christian churches in Thailand ... seems you guys are going to chase me back to the church after nearly 3 decades so I can find a few friends.

Sorry. But none of you have presented any logical reasons to favor the Muslims over the Israelis in this tired as tiff over land that rightlfully belonged to Israel in thie first place.

Absolutely right there SK
This forum is totally infested with wind-up merchants!

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

I agree, except I don't care how many stupid Americans die.

So you think an irrational centuries old hatred of the Israelis by the Muslims is rational thinking ?

Do you care how many British soldiers die ? They'll be there to. And you might as well make it clear if you care whther or not the British and Americans die in Iraq while you're at it.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Total bollocks ... that land belonged to the Israelis before the Muslims stole it in the first place.

Fines, if you want to you 2,000 year old biblical historical evidence such as the Roman Emporere Nero, the diaspora, and the Islamic expansion.
This is exactly what the current Israeli government does, and American Xitan and jews do.

And to use the logic you follow would mean people like the Americnas and Australians should be kicked out of those countries and turned over to the Aborigines and the Indians.

Close but no cigar.

I think the Zionist issue is related to the White European conqueres in N. and S. America (Pizzaro) ie.

But the Paelstinians have fought back.

And theiry neighbors had also.

And TODAY there is a problem.

That's why the roots are the same, but the WORLD WIDE dilemma is different.

Are there any Christian churches in Thailand ... seems you guys are going to chase me back to the church after nearly 3 decades so I can find a few friends.

Not relevant.

Sorry. But none of you have presented any logical reasons to favor the Muslims over the Israelis in this tired as tiff over land that rightlfully belonged to Israel in thie first place.

It's not about Muslims per se. Not about Jews per se.

It's about land, sefl-government, independence, freedom of movement, and the right to private property, and more.