Thread: Thai Parliament Censure Debate

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

This is the kinds of things we have to look forward to under a PT government...I love the logic....ah the halcyon days of Samak. How we miss him...

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Thailand PM targets drug dealers

Mr Samak defended both Mr Thaksin and the police, saying the drug-dealers had turned on each other.

"The drug traffickers were killing each other so that authorities would not be able to question them and track down their big bosses," he told reporters on Friday.

"If they were innocent, why were they killed?"

And does anyone really want this retard as PM? Abhisit is bad, but this guy is psychotic....

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

On Wednesday, Thai Interior Minister Chalerm Yubamrung said the new campaign would go ahead, even if thousands had to die.

"When we implement a policy that may bring 3,000 to 4,000 bodies, we will do it," said Mr Chalerm, himself a former police captain.

Chalerm is a psychopath as are his 2 odious sons. Tales from his manor are entertaining in a way but he should not be given power of any kind.


But then all parties have their betes noir. On balance I think I prefer Chalerm to Chidchob.

Originally Posted by BKKBoet

Originally Posted by BKKBoet

Interesting Re-tweet from Dan the man himself.

RT [at]danieljerivers:On CNN at 7.12pm Thai time - new footage of men in black up close & identifiable - plus shooting in the temple examined..

Will be very interesting to see, the man trying to make amends?

Just watched the clip (should have it's own thread by tomorrow). Undercover film taken by CNN showing men dressed in black & army fatigues at one of the Skytrain stations. They are armed and are wearing webbing for holding multiple rifle magazines.

So either soldiers were dressing in black to pretend they were rangers, or rangers were dressing in fatigues to pretend they were soldiers? Or perhaps the MIB and the soldiers were having a nice cup of tea and swapping tall tales?


If the first option, they would probably have been carrying catapults. if they were carrying rifles they were probably soldiers. Reasonable?

^ Wilco. Gotta link?

Watched it live on CNN tonight about 19h15 tonight, it has however not yet been uploaded to their website.

It shows armed militia at one of the skytrain stations at the time it was occupied by the UDD.

Originally Posted by BKKBoet

Watched it live on CNN tonight about 19h15 tonight, it has however not yet been uploaded to their website.

It shows armed militia at one of the skytrain stations at the time it was occupied by the UDD.

Which, incidentally, is the signature costume of Seh Daeng's boys, isn't it?

Their general lack of respect for human life is well documented, by now.

Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

Their general lack of respect for human life is well documented, by now.

Well said, we all thought that about the military junta government when thay announced and carried through with the live fire zones.

Temple debate rages


Temple debate rages

Puea Thai says govt to blame for killings

• Published: 1/06/2010 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: News

The controversial deaths of six people at Wat Pathumwanaram during the rout of the red shirts has dominated the censure debate, with the opposition demanding the government take full responsibility for the killings.
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, right, and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban watch a video clip showing what the opposition says are soldiers standing on the tracks of the BTS skytrain in front of Wat Pathumwanaram where six people were shot dead on May 19 during the dispersal of the red shirt protest. THITI WANNAMONTHA



Puea Thai Party members yesterday produced evidence including pictures and video clips to back their grilling of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who is in charge of security, and the cabinet of the Democrat Party-led administration.
The six people - including volunteer nurse Kamonked Akkhahad - were killed on May19 when security forces moved in to disperse the two-month-old rally by the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship at its main base at Ratchaprasong intersection. They were found dead inside the temple, declared a safe area for protesters.


Opposition members blamed the killings on soldiers, claiming the government ordered them to use force to disperse the red shirt protesters. It was alleged witnesses saw soldiers shooting the six people from the elevated train tracks in front of the temple. They demanded the government investigate the killings as quickly as possible.


Puea Thai MP for Bangkok Anudit Nakornthap showed pictures of soldiers whom he claimed might have killed the six people at the temple.
He said the pictures had been taken at 6.30pm on May19 at the same time the soldiers were in the middle of clearing the UDD protesters from Ratchaprasong and nearby areas.


"The government must take responsibility for this incident. Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep abused their authority [in ordering soldiers to kill the six people]. They violated Section 157 of the Criminal Code and must be punished," Group Capt Anudit said.
He accused the government of trying to whitewash the tragedy at the temple by pointing the finger at unknown masked men in black and hardcore protesters.


Mr Suthep angrily rejected the allegations, saying the pictures shown by Group Capt Anudit must be carefully examined to see whether they had really been taken at the time he claimed. He said he backed up his position based on what he had been told by security authorities in his capacity as head of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation, which was in charge of security during the April10 and May19 operation.
The deputy prime minister said he had been told no soldiers were in front of the temple at that time. The soldiers were at nearby Chalermpao intersection as they were not able to advance.


Mr Suthep claimed a group of 20 security troops had been trying to reach the main rally site at Ratchaprasong from 3pm in an attempt to guard fire fighters who were being prevented from reaching the buildings that had been set on fire.


But the soldiers' efforts to get to the main rally spot were thwarted by "terrorists hidden at the rally site underneath the skytrain rail tracks".
At about 6.30pm, there were more gunmen positioned at a corner of the temple next to the Siam Paragon shopping mall, who fired back at the troops and then ran into the temple, he said. "The soldiers were then forced to pull back and stayed at the Siam BTS station in order to avoid further clashes," he said.


Mr Abhisit said a neutral panel made up of people from all sectors would be appointed to shed light on the killings at the temple.

Besides the deaths at Wat Pathumwanaram, Puea Thai MP Worawat Uea-apinyakul and other opposition members blamed the government for using excessive force against red shirt protesters at Phan Fa Bridge and Khok Wua intersection on April10.


Mr Suthep said the army had not assigned any snipers for the security operation against protesters at Khok Wua intersection as claimed. The army was not able to break through to all of the rally sites on Ratchadamnoen Avenue occupied by protesters, he said.


Mr Worawat dismissed the deputy prime minister's explanation, saying his claims were based on disinformation from security forces who were in control of dispersing the protesters that day.
"You were deceived by security forces who told you they were positioned in the rally site's outer areas," he said.

PM upbeat to rebut charges

CENSURE STARTS FOR A SECOND DAY
PM upbeat to rebut charges


By The Nation


The House on Tuesday convened on time at 8.30 am for the second and final day of the censure debate.





Chief opposition whip Witthaya Buranasiri was the first to speak from the floor, highlighting the first day of debate and complaining about poor signal and frequent interruption of the live broadcast of the censure.
Pheu Thai MP Chalerm Yoobamrung is expected to the highlight for today's debate. He is scheduled to take the floor in the afternoon and deliver a summation speech before midnight.


Commenting on the first day of censure, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he had no concerns about rebutting the charges but was worrying about the distorted views of the opposition lawmakers might be a hurdle to bring about the reconciliation.
"There are attempts to pass the blame on violence and this will make it more difficult for reconciliation to materialise," he said.
He said fence mending efforts could not succeed if politicians were not cooperative about reconciliation.


The prime minister said he was not going to intervene if the coalition Puea Pandin Party would allow a free vote on the censure, saying every MP is entitled to form their own judgement.
He repeated his pledge to form an independent panel to investigate the mayhem following the censure.


In regard to news reports that ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra had employed a war crime lawyer, he said Thaksin might want to induce the international inteference in the internal affairs of Thailand.

If one is looking for culpability, accountability, admissions, allocation of responsibility, proof, (on either side)....then this Parliamentary debate is not the place to look. In fact, you're going to be extremely frustrated if thats your hope or objective.

This is a rhetorical political exercise, scarcely better than 4 year old boys squabbling over who gets the biggest slice of chocolate cake.

Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog

If one is looking for culpability, accountability, admissions, allocation of responsibility, proof, (on either side)....then this Parliamentary debate is not the place to look. In fact, you're going to be extremely frustrated if thats your hope or objective.

This is a rhetorical political exercise, scarcely better than 4 year old boys squabbling over who gets the biggest slice of chocolate cake.

Fully agree.

Battle over deaths

WAT PATHUMWANARAM
Battle over deaths


By Pongphon Sarnsamak
The Nation
Published on June 1, 2010

Suthep says troops had gun battle near Wat Pathum Wanaram around time six were shot; Abhisit says autopsies show four died from bullets shot from shallow angle, not Skytrain


Troops had a gunfight with unknown assailants near Wat Pathum Wanaram on May 19, when six people were killed in mysterious circumstances after the dispersal of the red-shirt rally in central Bangkok, Deputy Premier Suthep Thaugsuban admitted in the censure debate yesterday.

Suthep said gunmen had exchanged gunfire with troops at a corner outside the temple before their retreat into the temple grounds, and that one of them might have been shot by soldiers during the incident.

"I don't know whether this man was one of the six people who mysteriously died inside the temple," he said.

The deaths of the six, which included a medical volunteer, inside the temple were highlighted in the parliamentary debate, but the government was unable to provide clear answers about what occurred in and around the temple.

Two video clips presented by opposition Pheu Thai MP Worawat Uapinyakul showed a group of soldiers on the Skytrain tracks and people taking refuge inside the temple amid the sound of gunfire.

The opposition implied that troops had fired into the temple from the elevated railway.

A set of photographs taken by a Sony camera showed some of the same images as in one of the video clips, supposedly confirming that it was 6pm on May 19 when the six people were killed, Worawat said.

Democrat MP for Bangkok Attawich Suwanpakdee, a member of the committee screening video clips and evidence for the debate, argued that the footage was taken on May 20 and not the previous day, as there was no sign of the plume of smoke from Siam Paragon.

May 19 was when severe rioting broke out following the military crackdown on protesters. There were arson attacks on many sites in the capital.

Suthep said a group of soldiers had been ordered to the tracks at Siam Skytrain station that day to protect firemen at the nearby Siam Square shopping centre and CentralWorld department store, who were under attack from unidentified assailants.

Troops were also ordered to the National Stadium to open the way for protesters to return home after red-shirt leaders announced an end to the protest and some surrendered to police, he said.

However, the deputy premier later gave confusing information by saying that soldiers were on the Skytrain tracks on May 20, rather than the day before.

Pheu Thai MP Vichan Meenchaiyanant cited eyewitness Narongsak Singmae, who was shot in the leg while inside Wat Pathum Wanaram on the evening of May 19. He said the trajectory of the bullet that hit him was from the elevated Skytrain line.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said during the debate that four of the six temple deaths were the result of shots fired from a relatively shallow angle, and not from a high angle such as the Skytrain track.

The government was conducting an investigation into the deaths inside the temple grounds, he said.

However, he insisted there had been no need for soldiers or any other security officials to conduct an operation at the temple.

"I deeply regret the incident that took place inside the mercy zone and the medics' tent," he said.

"We have to be fair to all parties and ascertain the facts."

Meanwhile, the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation set up a 'war room' yesterday to help provide details to the government to counter the opposition's claims.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

The premier and Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban denied they were responsible for the loss of lives.

George Bush was equally sincere about the WMD as I recall. It's only later we found out he was a knowing liar.


If Abhisit and Suthep are not responsible, then who else could be? The Reds? The tooth fairy? Father Christmas? The spirits?


Surely there is a limit to the credulity of Thais and some foreigners?

Are there any links to the vdos being shown?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said during the debate that four of the six temple deaths were the result of shots fired from a relatively shallow angle, and not from a high angle such as the Skytrain track.

Is he admitting that 2 were?

2 murders are still 2 murders

All this talk (for Seh Daeng's shooting too) about bullet trajectory is all very JFK-ish.

But surely if you tilt your head, ......or bend over or are kneeling down , then all that is moot. With JFK, we knew where his head and torso were at the time of impact as it was on film. With these people, nobody knows, so no fixed geometry applies.

Originally Posted by good2bhappy

2 murders are still 2 murders

.... maybe you should wait until they announce autopsy results, before jumping to conclusions.

So, what about that CNN video of these guys in military fatigues, that aren't soldiers, yet that were heavily armed, and that wanted to make sure they appear as soldiers?

What about them?

CHALERM TAKING THE FLOOR AT 3 PM
Censure debate shifting on irrgularities


Censure debate shifting on irrgularities


By The Nation


After a day-long debate on the Bangkok unrest, the opposition lawmakers started on Tuesday's afternoon to shift focus to alleged irregularities involving Interior Minister Chaovarat Charnweerakul and Transport Minister Sophon Saram.





Pheu Thai MP Sanguan Pongmanee outlined five suspicions involving the two ministers related to two mega projects - the airport link train and the purple train line.
The first four issues were related to the airport link project which Chaovarat benefitted through his proxy holding.
Sanguan alleged the conflict of interest related to the Cabinet approval of a consultant fee payment to a company owned by Chaovarat through a nominee.
He voiced suspicion on a Bt98 million deal last year to have benefitted Chaovarat.
He said the government and Chaovarat violated the conflict of interest clause under the anti-graft law due to the awarding of contracts to companies held by Chaovarat's nominees. He also claimed Chaovarat violated the conflict of interest clause since he was the caretaker prime minister before the Democrat-led coalition came to power.
In regard to graft violations involving Sophon, he said the cost for the purple train line was inflated from Bt33 billion to Bt36 billion.
Pheu Thai MP Chalerm Yoobamrung began his speech at 3.00 pm to censure the alleged irregularities.
Chaovarat and Sophon have scheduled to issue their rebuttals after Chalerm's speech.

Chalerm grills five ministers in a row


Chalerm grills five ministers in a row

• Published: 1/06/2010 at 05:39 PM
• Online news: Breakingnews

Chalerm Yubamrung, the Puea Thai MPs chairman, spent two hours in parliament to grill five ministers in a row in the no-confidence debate on Tuesday afternoon.
The ministers grilled by Mr Chalerm were Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, Tranpsort Minister Sohpon Zarum, Interior Minister Chavarat Charnvirakul, and Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya.
Starting 3pm Mr Chalerm first took Mr Sohpon, the transport minister, to task by accusing him of corruption involving the bidding for the construction of electrict train route, or purple line (Bang Sue - Bang Yai), of the Metropolitan Rapid Transit Authority to benefit two construction firms Ch Karnchang and Sino-Thai Engineering and Construction of Mr Chavarat, the interior minister.
He said the alleged corruption caused the state an additional expense of 6,000 million baht.
Mr Chalerm said the corruption was colluded in by Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep.
On Mr Chavarat, Mr Chalerm accused him of corruption by demanding under-the-table money from Interior Ministry officials in appointments of district officers, provincial governors, and directors-general of various departments.
The veteran MP accused Mr Kasit of offending the monarchy in his lecture given at the Johns Hopkins University in the United States on political and economic development in Thailand on April 12 this year.
Mr Chalerm's emphasis was on the electric train's purple line.
He also strongly attacked Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep for their handling of the red-shirt protesters.

Highlights of Chalerm's speech....one persons views......plus additional stuff.

veena T. (veen_NT) on Twitter

TR [at]Bancha_nna: Chalerm distributes CDs of Kasit's speech to reporters เฉลิม à¹�จà¸� ซีดี à¸�ล่าวหา à¸�ษิต à¸[at]ิรมย์ บรรยายถึงà¸�ารปà¸�ิรภ¹à¸›à¸ªà¸–าบัน | TweetPhoto
15 minutes ago via TweetDeck

RT [at]Tulip_Oum: Puea Thai MP Karun Hosakul acknowledges terrorism charges at DSI, denies all charges/via [at]MCOT [at]georgebkk
29 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Court approves arrest warrants of 13 suspects who torced Maleenont Tower on May 19. #ASTV
32 minutes ago via TweetDeck

From the newsroom - VDO last day of debate - From the Newsroom June 1
about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck

RT [at]Hurtzel:Aree Krainara is the head of red guard.
about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck

Commercial time: The Nation has just introduced a Youtube channel :-) - YouTube - TheNationDigital's Channel
about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

Just to remind you that Chalerm opened his speech by declaring that he is a disciple of Thaksin.
about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

TR[at] Nattha_tvthai: Chalerm16.47) We including Thaksin & his family have never considered les majesty law as an obstacle like Kasit does.
about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

(con't): I think we have to talk abt the institution of the monarchy, how would it have 2 reform itself 2 the modern globalized world."
about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

Part of Kasit's speech: We should be brave enough to go through all of this and even talk about the taboo subject of monarchy.. (con't)
about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

Chalerm is now reading what Kasit has said.
about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

Chalerm said he didn't want to show the VDO clip but citing at 37th min.
about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

RT [at]Nattha_tvthai: Chalerm is referring to Kasit's lecture at John Hopkins U. in April and how he had mentioned reform of the monarchy.
about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

Chalerm is grilling Chavarat (Interior Ministry) now . He's just hinted that Kasit will be next!!
about 3 hours ago via TweetDeck

And someone did count this: in 48 mins Chalerm said "If I am the prime minister, ..." 4 ttimes!!
about 3 hours ago via TweetDeck

RT [at]Nattha_tvthai: Chalerm has debated for around 90 mins now.
about 3 hours ago via TweetDeck

Chalerm will have some another 2 hours to speak. The debate must end at midnight so that the vote could take place on Wed.
about 3 hours ago via TweetDeck

RT [at]Trisdee: If you're in front of the TV, mute it, and you will see how dramatic Chalerm's body language really is.>>v good idea!!
about 3 hours ago via TweetDeck

Chalerm will 'focus' on Public Health Ministry and Foreign Affairs Ministry.
about 4 hours ago via TweetDeck

Not bad, Chalerm is very punctual to start with.
about 4 hours ago via TweetDeck

(14.57) Okay, time to turn on OR turn off your TV. Here comes Chalerm Yoobamrung!!
about 4 hours ago via TweetDeck