Army officer Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan opens fire at Fort Hood, killing 12

**AntRobertson** · 09-11-2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dug

Because Christains and Jews aren't blowing themselves and their compatriots up or murdering them in the name of their religion.

Really. Timothy McVeigh was Catholic, should all Catholics be asked to swear the same pledge too?

**Boon Mee** · 09-11-2009, 03:26 PM

^
Timothy McVeigh didn't yell out "Jesus Saves" or anything else remotely connected to religion as did your boy with his "Aalla Aukbar" or some such crazy shit.

Poor argument there Counseler. You're obviously not a Trial Lawyer, eh?

**Cujo** · 09-11-2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Dug

Because Christains and Jews aren't blowing themselves and their compatriots up or murdering them in the name of their religion.

Really. Timothy McVeigh was Catholic, should all Catholics be asked to swear the same pledge too?

read this you fucking dropkick

in the name of their religion.

Did mcveigh shout 'long live the pope' or anything similar??

**AntRobertson** · 09-11-2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

^
Timothy McVeigh didn't yell out "Jesus Saves" or anything else remotely connected to religion as did your boy with his "Aalla Aukbar" or some such crazy shit.

Does it matter - clearly some people have decided that religous persuasion is the defining factor in all of this, above even a patently clear mental imbalance. Or does that only apply in the case of Muslims.

[Poor argument there Counseler. You're obviously not a Trial Lawyer, eh?

And the rote ad hominem response from yourself.

**Cujo** · 09-11-2009, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

clearly some people have decided that religous persuasion is the defining factor in all of this,

Clearly religious persuasion IS the defining factor in all of this.

**AntRobertson** · 09-11-2009, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dug

Did mcveigh shout 'long live the pope' or anything similar??

I don't know, did he?

So assuming that we're possessed of roughly the same facts and knowledge of this incident - probably even read or seen exactly the same reports - I can only guess that you have a professional background that I lack be to qualifed to come to the conclusion at this point that Hasan differs from McVeigh in 'murdering in the name of religion' as opposed to being, comparatively simply, a mentally disturbed person.

read this you fucking dropkick

Grow up.

**Panda** · 09-11-2009, 03:56 PM

Demonizing one minority group within society is a typical fascist response.
There are over 3,000 Muslims in the US military and now we have these paranoid fascist nutters like Dug, Jet and Booners calling for action against all Muslims because of the violent actions of one Muslim. Its idiots like these that gave rise to Hitler.

**Cujo** · 09-11-2009, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Panda

Demonizing one minority group within society is a typical fascist response.
There are over 3,000 Muslims in the US military and now we have these paranoid fascist nutters like Dug, Jet and Booners calling for action against all Muslims because of the violent actions of one Muslim. Its idiots like these that gave rise to Hitler.

Almost right but you got it the wrong way around.
If 'idiots like these' had been listened to when warning about hitler he never would have been allowed to get so powerful.

**slackula** · 09-11-2009, 04:07 PM

^ Hahaha, thread Godwinned!

**Panda** · 09-11-2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dug

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by Dug

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Dug

make all serving muslims swear on the Koran their first allegiance is to the country they serve. Those that won't, kick them out.

Can't work as Islam is higher than any country . .

precisely, so if they cannot swear allegiance to the country they are sworn to protect, particularly if that country is at war with countries that identify primarily with the object of the soldier first allegiance, the soldier is a danger. Do not allow muslims to serve in the U.S. or British armed forces. ( or Aus, Canada etc, you know what I mean)

Why stop at Muslims?
Ask the Christians, Jews etc.. to put their country before their God.

Because Christains and Jews aren't blowing themselves and their compatriots up or murdering them in the name of their religion.

Way off track there Dug. You were talking about how Muslims serving their country in USA, and Brittan etc should be treated.

How many US Muslim servicemen have been --- to use your own words, --- "blowing themselves and their compatriots up or murdering them in the name of their religion." ?

**Cujo** · 09-11-2009, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by Dug

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by Dug

Originally Posted by panama hat

Can't work as Islam is higher than any country . .

precisely, so if they cannot swear allegiance to the country they are sworn to protect, particularly if that country is at war with countries that identify primarily with the object of the soldier first allegiance, the soldier is a danger. Do not allow muslims to serve in the U.S. or British armed forces. ( or Aus, Canada etc, you know what I mean)

Why stop at Muslims?
Ask the Christians, Jews etc.. to put their country before their God.

Because Christains and Jews aren't blowing themselves and their compatriots up or murdering them in the name of their religion.

Way off track there Dug. You were talking about how Muslims serving their country in USA, and Brittan etc should be treated.

How many US Muslim servicemen have been --- to use your own words, --- "blowing themselves and their compatriots up or murdering them in the name of their religion." ?

One that I know of.
How many Christians/Jews?

**Davis Knowlton** · 09-11-2009, 04:34 PM

I know of at least one other. In 2003, a Muslim Sergeant in the 101st Airborne shot a number of his colleagues in a fire base in Kuwait on the eve of their kick-off into Iraq. Sergeant Hasan Karim Akbar. Killed two; wounded 14. Sentenced to death; sentence currently under appeal. Born a black American in Watts under another name; convert to Islam.

**Davis Knowlton** · 09-11-2009, 05:12 PM

After his capture, Sergeant Akbar claimed that he had acted to prevent his fellow paratroopers from "going into our countries and raping our women and killing our children". The "our" I presume to mean Muslim, since he was neither Kuwaiti nor Iraqi, nor did he have any women or children in either country. A cowardly attack, in which he rolled hand grenades under the flaps of occupied tents under cover of darkness.

**Norton** · 09-11-2009, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by panama hat

Can't work as Islam is higher than any country

So it is but oaths are required by all military persons. Oaths are often broken and not just by Muslims.

Commissioned Officers oath

I, Panama Hat, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

Enlisted oath:

I, Norton, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

**panama hat** · 09-11-2009, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Norton

I, Panama Hat, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ............

Egads, man! Have you lost your senses!!!! More likely:

I, Panama Hat, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the wishes and commands of Mrs Hat . . .

**Boon Mee** · 10-11-2009, 05:26 PM

Well, to quote this guy Jim Treacher, Hasan, this Al Quidea wannabee could have worn a T-shirt reading "I am a radical Muslim and I hate you! Die, Infidels, Die!" and the Lamestream Media would still be asking, "Why? Why did he do this? How did America cause this tragedy?"

I do surely love how the usual suspects aboard here too try to spin it like he was so traumitized by blah, blah, blah...

**AntRobertson** · 10-11-2009, 05:30 PM

Well, at least you can find something to laugh about in all of this Booners.

Something I'm sure the relatives of those killed would also find great succour in.

**Boon Mee** · 10-11-2009, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Well, at least you can find something to laugh about in all of this Booners.

Something I'm sure the relatives of those killed would also find great succour in.

I'm laughing at you moonbat, bleeding-heart, tree-hugging, whale-saving commie-pinko appeasment liberals. For starters...

**AntRobertson** · 10-11-2009, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Well, at least you can find something to laugh about in all of this Booners.

Something I'm sure the relatives of those killed would also find great succour in.

I'm laughing at you moonbat, bleeding-heart, tree-hugging, whale-saving commie-pinko appeasment liberals. For starters...

And like I said, I'm happy for you that this tradegy is the basis for providing you such mirth. Nice one.

**Panda** · 10-11-2009, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Well, at least you can find something to laugh about in all of this Booners.

Something I'm sure the relatives of those killed would also find great succour in.

I'm laughing at you moonbat, bleeding-heart, tree-hugging, whale-saving commie-pinko appeasment liberals. For starters...

And like I said, I'm happy for you that this tradegy is the basis for providing you such mirth. Nice one.

Booners, like some of his ultra right friends seem to take great pleasure in his countries losses, be it in war or economics. The US doesn't need external enemies when they have loony patriots like Booners trying to bring them down.

**AntRobertson** · 10-11-2009, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Panda

Booners, like some of his ultra right friends seem to take great pleasure in his countries losses, be it in war or economics. The US doesn't need external enemies when they have loony patriots like Booners trying to bring them down.

Exactly. Patriots of convenience they are, only 'care' about their country when it suits them.

**slackula** · 10-11-2009, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Exactly. Patriots of convenience they are, only 'care' about their country when it suits them.

You give them far too much credit.

Witness the feeding frenzy of glee that accompanied the announcement that Chicago wouldn't get the Olympics; never mind the facts that Bush supported the bid and the USA lost out on a nice injection of cash and national prestige, they were just thrilled that it wasn't awarded to the States under Obama.

Extreme partisanship, grovelling before such intellectual luminaries as Glenn Beck and a focus on wedge issues is all that is left in their ideological arsenal nowadays since every other tenet that has been tried has either failed miserably or has been rejected at the ballot box.

Genuine, patriotic, American conservatives (I know a few) have seen the GOP subverted by neocon cowards and religious fundie nutbags and don't have anywhere left to go now. Hell, the Florida GOP leadership are purging Republicans who lean to Libertarian ideology and the national GOP has decided to take on the AARP over health care!

BM and his cohorts are clinging to a failed ideology, they know it and that is why their howls of indignation and outrage™ are getting ever louder and ever more ridiculous and extreme. Either their party is going to move towards the centre on social issues and actually start to practice the fiscal conservatism they continually blather about or they are going to be irrelevant for a long time to come.

**cambtek** · 10-11-2009, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Sane soldier. Might this not be a term of contradiction?

Lots of confected outrage about this on other forums,good to see some sanity here.
Hundreds of US officers fragged in vietnam and no outcry from the loony right.
Lots of doctors murdered and abortion clinics bombed and no outcry from the loony right.
Stats on US gun casualties in the australian media this week,unbelievealble but true-are you ready?
Every day on average more than 270 shootings in the US,every fucking day!
At least 75 deaths from guns every day!
And the loonies bang on about this latest one.
If they really had concern for their fellow citizens they should be trying trying to bring down the NRA and any politician who supports them-shouldnt they?

**superman** · 10-11-2009, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by cambtek

Every day on average more than 270 shootings in the US,every fucking day! At least 75 deaths from guns every day!

Considering the population being 400+ million does that equate to being the the worst ? I really can't believe I'm sticking up for Uncle Sam.

**Panda** · 10-11-2009, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by superman

Originally Posted by cambtek

Every day on average more than 270 shootings in the US,every fucking day! At least 75 deaths from guns every day!

Considering the population being 400+ million does that equate to being the the worst ? I really can't believe I'm sticking up for Uncle Sam.

More like 300 and a bit million.
75 a day is a heck of a lot more than Afghanistan and Iraq. But it seems quite acceptable to them and its their country. Right to bear arms and all that.
Right up there with the third world countries re gun related murders. But they haven't figured it out yet.

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