Thread: Mother fears she has been 'criminalised

Mother trailed by policeman and warned by council for telling off son at checkout
By NEIL SEARS
Last updated at 11:41 PM on 08th November 2009

A mother fears she has been 'criminalised' for giving her children a ticking-off in a supermarket.
She was secretly followed home by an off-duty policeman who overheard her threatening to smack them unless they behaved.
Six weeks later two officers came to her home and questioned her about disciplining the youngsters, a boy of 11 and a four-year-old girl. To her horror she then received a letter from the local council saying her 'chastisement' of the children had been 'put on record' for at least the next 14 years
The shocked mother, a trainee manager in a Christian bookshop, said last night: 'It was an amazing intrusion. I was doing what parents should do, and what thousands do every week - setting moral boundaries for how children should behave.'
The 34-year- old mother does not want to be named, to protect the identity of her children. But she is speaking out to avoid the same thing happening to another parent.
She said: 'If no one stands up to this oppression, this political correctness, parents will lose responsibility for their kids and the state will take over.
'The local authority have told me they're keeping my family on record until my kids leave school, and my daughter is only four.
'If she ever falls over and has to be taken to hospital I'm worried about what conclusions they might come to. I feel I'm being kept on record as an abuser, so I will always be looking over my shoulder.'
The mother says she occasionally smacks the children 'as a last resort', but only three times a year at most.
The supermarket incident happened in August at the Co- op in Woolston, Southampton, near where she and her 40-year-old husband live.
The youngsters had been behaving badly all day, because rain had kept them indoors, and she had earlier given her son a 'mild smack' for arguing with his sister.
In the supermarket they were rampaging around the aisles and fighting. She made them sit on a bench while she went through the checkout, but they began arguing yet again.
The mother said: 'My words were something like, "How dare you behave like this. If you carry on like this you're going to get another hiding like the one you had earlier".'
The pair apologised and quietened down. Neither was smacked when they got home and she thought nothing more of it.
But more than a month later two policemen knocked on her door and told her a colleague had trailed her to find her address.
She said: 'I couldn't believe it. I have never been in trouble with the police and I have a great respect for them, so I was absolutely shocked. The officer must have seen only the end part of a long day.'
She was appalled when a letter arrived from Southampton council children's services department. It said no further action would be taken 'at this time', but added: 'We would like to advise you that we do keep the information on record.'
The mother, who helps out at her church Sunday school, said: 'The police and social services have a difficult job to do and we all jump on their backs when they don't step in with cases like Baby P. But they've got to apply some common sense. In my case they have had a huge over-reaction and been very heavy-handed.'
Hampshire Police said: 'It was not an ordinary telling- off. Because of what the woman said and the way her children reacted to it, it gave our officer reasonable grounds for concern.'
Southampton council said writing to parents who are brought to its attention was 'standard practice', and that it was 'very important' to keep records of such incidents.
But the Reverend Mark Stocker, whose Spring Road Evangelical Church the mother attends, said: 'She is very upset because she feels it's criminalised her when she's just a loving mother who would never hurt her children. She's so shaken that someone actually followed her home.'
Mike Judge of the Christian Institute think-tank said: 'This woman is a personal friend - and I know she's a good mum. I don't think it's particularly a Christian issue, but we do believe in the family quite strongly, and get worried when the state tries to take over the role of parents.'
Mild smacking by parents is legal, but any punishment that leaves a mark can lead to court action.


Read more: Mother trailed by policeman and warned by council for telling off son at checkout | Mail Online

It's gone mad I tell you.

The UK is a police state. But apparently that's what people are voting for?!

Originally Posted by crippen

She said: 'If no one stands up to this oppression, this political correctness, parents will lose responsibility for their kids and the state will take over.

Dug, I agree fully...what the hell has the UK turned into...maybe if more kids were told no and smack like I was (should I have done something really bad) then we wouldn't have 'Chav's' and shit like this in England today and repsect and basic manners wouldn't have disappeared..like they have...society has crumbled and This 34 yr old mother is being persecuted by morons...I'm never going home again...fecking place...

Originally Posted by crippen

'My words were something like, "How dare you behave like this. If you carry on like this you're going to get another hiding like the one you had earlier".'

Sounds like just being a good mum, and not letting her kids behave like animals..good on her. A smack never hurt anyone, it instills respect of the parent and home rule.
Beating a child is vastly different.

Originally Posted by crippen

Hampshire Police said: 'It was not an ordinary telling- off. Because of what the woman said and the way her children reacted to it, it gave our officer reasonable grounds for concern.'

What she told them to behave or they'd get a smack/hiding...and they then behaved....WTF is up with the Po-lice?!!!! surely the way that she forces her kids to behave and respect her is likely to make them less likely to become violent criminals??? saving that copper in years to come a possible psycho or two?

Originally Posted by crippen

Christian Institute think-tank

Surely that's a paradox...

Originally Posted by crippen

Mild smacking by parents is legal, but any punishment that leaves a mark can lead to court action.

As I said before a smack ever a hard one is vastly different to abuse...beat ya kids if they're bad....worked for me...I was rarley that naughty that I got smacked but when I was....I didn't do it again..no long lasting marks or bruises just a short sharp shock. Then feeling bad that my folks were so upset with me...

The woman is lying, of course: people often do when it concerns the treatment of their children. It must have been a lot more than ticking off to get on the At Risk Register. I remember a case where a father had frequently beaten his 7 year old daughter and broken bones, telling the local press that she had been taken away because she was a bit backward at school. Because of confidentiality, the authorities are not allowed to tell the true story. A child's name can only be placed on the At Risk Register by a Case Conference, involving the school, the Police, the Social Services and the medical side.There would need to be more than one cause for concern.
Also, a child's name being on the register is in no way criminalisation. It simply mean that, if the child comes to the notice of the police, health authorities or school etc with suspicious injuries, these reports will be coordinated and a new case conference called. How else do you think they can protect children?
I think that there may be a clue, in that, she works for a Christian book shop. Many Christian fundamentalists are strong on the use of physical violence to "drive out Satan." The names of the children of the Christian Taliban sometimes appear on the register, after all, it is better to beat your child senseless than allow it to fry in hell for eternity.Once God becomes the arbiter of reasonable behaviour, then sanity flies out of the window.

^ Sounds like a social worker.

My parents never beat me, the roman Catholic school I went to did it for them.
I still have a scar on my head that I got when I was 10, the barbers here in LOS always mention it.

Seems like the Orwellian nightmare has well & truly taken hold in the Nanny State.

Her self confessed statement is quite telling,

"If you carry on like this you're going to get another hiding like the one you had earlier".'

Admitting to have already given the kids a "hiding" seems reason enough for the
Social services to give her a notice that she is on their watch list.

Now shes trying to make a big fuss about it because she feels aggrieved.
The woman is an idiot.

Originally Posted by the dogcatcher

My parents never beat me, the roman Catholic school I went to did it for them.
I still have a scar on my head that I got when I was 10, the barbers here in LOS always mention it.

As one who has suffered a "Catholic" education in the 60's and 70's i know what you mean. Barbaric Bastards !!!!!! There are a few teachers i would love to meet again. I would love to show them the meaning of Pain !!!

Originally Posted by Kapilvastu

The woman is lying, of course: people often do when it concerns the treatment of their children. It must have been a lot more than ticking off to get on the At Risk Register.

You appear not to know what is going on in the UK these days. Recently babies have been taken away from mothers because the mother was too fat and now they are threatening to take the baby away from a 17 year old as she is too stupid in the eyes of the ss to care for the kid. Frightening

I remember years ago in London, many cases where kids had been removed from homes for physical abuse only to be sent to foster homes, where sadly sexual abuse had then taken place.
These are supposedly people that had been checked out by the SS and deemed ok to look after kids!!!

There are many circumstances over the years I lived in the UK (father was a policeman, mother was a headmasters secretary) that I was told about some horrific abuses of postion and power.

As for being put on the 'at risk register' well I'm just not sure what that means these days.....aren't we all at risk??? from family and parents if that is the case...you can't hit your kids, cops can't hit kids, teachers can't hit kids???? who the bloody hell can...some of these little monsters are way out of control and need a smack. Respect forthe parents etc has long gone..in general..having kids too young doesn't help either..look at the state of the UK now.

Ok I will say that a smack and a hiding can be the same thing depending on how you yourself were brought up and the terminology used..

I would say that a smack, hiding and beating are different levels. taking a belt to your kid is and always will be abuse...to be honest I believe IMHO that psychological abuse by parent's can be worse. (nothing worked as well as...
I'm going to tell your father when he comes in...Father only hit me once or twice...I did deserve it...mother hit me more....but it was my father I was most scared to offend, and not because he hit hard....can't explain any better than that....

I have had occasion this year to witness an 'out of control' mother chastising her children in a public place and immediately felt concerned for her children's well being. I offered to assist her briefly with her shopping/children but was rebuked with 'i can manage fine thank you'. Whilst i recognise her caution in accepting assistance from a stranger i wanted to point out to her that 'no madam, you are not managing very well, you are bringing attention to yourself by your extraordinary bad behaviour toward your children'. It also begs the question that if she behaved like this toward her kids in public then what may have been going on behind closed doors. It concerned me for the rest of the day. I believe that such incidents are worthy of further investigation, especially to assist the mother/father if their relationship between them and their children is strained. There is nothing worse for a child than to be brought up in a troubled relationship with their parents, it can set the tone of 'normality' for the rest of their lives. I am not a former social worker but have brought up my own well adjusted children without feeling the need for even a gentle slap. If we wish our children to respect and love us later in life then we have to show our constant love for them when they are young and vunerable. There are no guarantees but without that understanding it becomes a non starter.

[quote=Takeovers;1225107]

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

If we wish our children to respect and love us later in life then we have to show our constant love for them when they are young and vunerable.

You have never seen children literally begging to be shown borders or limits?

No, I can't say that i have ever experienced a child begging a parent for guidance on behaviour limitations.



Denying them reasonable limits is child abuse of a high order almost as bad as child abuse.

Not sure i understand that one but i take your point that not all children are the same. We adults are likewise unique and i would enquire if ones company's boss shouted and screamed at any one of us then are we likely to like and respect him/her? Probably not! It is much the same for children and i note some of the replies from TDers concerning their own experiences whilst growing up. My father slapped my legs only on one occasion and it is an experience that i believed i did not deserve. Hence i have been very careful to ensure that my own children did not experience similar. It is never easy being a parent but we as adults must assume the huge responsibility for their well being. Spending quality time with our own can lead to rewards both at the growing stage and later in life although as i have previously mentioned there are no guarantees. Displaying bad behavour as a parent is not the sort of guidance that is likely to promote good behaviour in a child.

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

No, I can't say that i have ever experienced a child begging a parent for guidance on behaviour limitations.

Well, thats strange. I see children testing their limits that is the limits of their parents patience and tolerance all the time. If they don't reach that limit they will stretch a notch further.

That's what I mean by saying begging for limits.

I do wonder how much brainwashed or pressured with some method a child is that does never show that behaviour. No offense intended. Methods are different.

Originally Posted by Sdigit

Her self confessed statement is quite telling,

"If you carry on like this you're going to get another hiding like the one you had earlier".'

Admitting to have already given the kids a "hiding" seems reason enough for the
Social services to give her a notice that she is on their watch list.

Now shes trying to make a big fuss about it because she feels aggrieved.
The woman is an idiot.

Yeah, rather telling isn't it......

Police report pregnant woman to social services over half-decorated home
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
Last updated at 1:58 AM on 10th November 2009
A pregnant woman who invited a policewoman into her half- decorated home ended up being reported to social workers for being a potentially unfit mother.
Mary Cooke, 27, was visited by police after she called 999 to report that she had nearly been run down by a speeding car.
The officer did not mention that she was unhappy about the state of Mrs Cooke's rented house, but after leaving wrote a memo to the social services.

'I can't believe it': Mary Cooke in the hallway she is decorating
Days later, Mrs Cooke received a letter from Staffordshire County Council, warning her of a potential 'referral' for her unborn child. In addition, the council contacted her midwife.
Last night, Mrs Cooke, a housewife who is 12 weeks' pregnant with her first child, said: 'The letter made me feel sick. I believe someone was judging me for decorating the house and I can't believe it. I'm in the first stages of pregnancy. I'd never dream of bringing a child home to a house being decorated.

More...
Driver 'orders mother and toddler off empty bus in heavy rain'
Branded an abuser for telling off my children in a supermarket: Mother trailed by police and 'chastisement put on record' for at least 14 YEARS
'I told the policewoman we are moving in February. We've been renting privately and we had started decorating, then a bigger house came up for rent and we decided to take it.
'But we thought it was only right to finish off what we'd started for the next people who come here.'
Mrs Cooke, of Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire, added: 'They contacted my midwife behind my back, but apparently she said she had no worries.

From yesterday's Daily Mail
'Now they've accepted that the policewoman may have been a little over zealous, so none of this will go against me in the future. They've decided to let the matter rest.
'It seems that the police and social services go from one extreme to another, they either do nothing and a little child dies or they go completely over the top.'
The case emerged after a mother in Southampton was secretly followed home by an off-duty policeman after she was spotted telling off her children at the supermarket check-out.
Six weeks later, two officers arrived at her home and questioned her about disciplining the youngsters, a boy of 11 and a four-year-old girl.
Yesterday, the Daily Mail reported that the 34-year-old mother, who does not want to be named to protect her children's identity, is now on a social services watch list until her two children leave school. She fears she will be 'criminalised' for life.
Mrs Cooke was visited by police after ringing to say that she had nearly been run over by a car that went through a red light. During the conversation she told the policewoman she was pregnant.
Mrs Cooke said the officer spent five minutes in the hall and living room of her semi-detached home and would have seen the stripped walls and floors.
She added: 'I know the wallpaper is off the walls and there were a couple of nails lying around, but the policewoman didn't say anything while she was here. Other expectant couples should be warned: be careful when you let police officers into their homes, because they can be judging you.'
The letter was sent from the council's children's services first response service, in Stafford. It says a referral regarding the unborn child had been made by police.
A spokesman for Staffordshire Police said: 'Our officers aim to act in the best interests of everyone they come into contact with.
'Their role can include making sure people get any extra help and support they might need.'
He declined to confirm whether the officer had referred Mrs Cooke to social services.
Enlarge


Read more: Police report pregnant woman to social services over half-decorated home | Mail Online

Jesus christ all bloody mighty....half decorated house...what is this unfit mother to be thinking???? She should be dragged out on to the street and public flogged until she repents.......

When I was working for both the Gas and water boards back home in Staffordshire, I saw many houses that were absolutely disgusting, many of those had kids in them. I wasn't my place to ring the SS or report them in anyway to the 'authorities'. If I had witnessed child abuse then ok, but just having a shit pit to live in just made me sad that this child was going to grow up with vile lazy uneducated parents.
Those are the dice you get sometimes....

My children behave very well.

They do not like being put on the rack overnight more than once.

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

I have had occasion this year to witness an 'out of control' mother chastising her children in a public place and immediately felt concerned for her children's well being. I offered to assist her briefly with her shopping/children but was rebuked with 'i can manage fine thank you'. Whilst i recognise her caution in accepting assistance from a stranger i wanted to point out to her that 'no madam, you are not managing very well, you are bringing attention to yourself by your extraordinary bad behaviour toward your children'. It also begs the question that if she behaved like this toward her kids in public then what may have been going on behind closed doors. It concerned me for the rest of the day. I believe that such incidents are worthy of further investigation, especially to assist the mother/father if their relationship between them and their children is strained. There is nothing worse for a child than to be brought up in a troubled relationship with their parents, it can set the tone of 'normality' for the rest of their lives. I am not a former social worker but have brought up my own well adjusted children without feeling the need for even a gentle slap. If we wish our children to respect and love us later in life then we have to show our constant love for them when they are young and vunerable. There are no guarantees but without that understanding it becomes a non starter.

very good post indeed..wouldn't let me green you again..sorry..

Originally Posted by Takeovers

You have never seen children literally begging to be shown borders or limits? It is a normal part of growing up to test how much they can get away with with parents teachers or other people. Firm words will do for some but not for every child and the difference is not the fault of the parents. Denying them reasonable limits is child abuse of a high order almost as bad as child abuse. But I see that child abuse cases are publicised and Social services and Police are not well equipped to make a good distinction. And teachers are probably in the worst position being observed by so many. It is a real problem.

Another good post and view point..

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

Not sure i understand that one but i take your point that not all children are the same. We adults are likewise unique and i would enquire if ones company's boss shouted and screamed at any one of us then are we likely to like and respect him/her? Probably not! It is much the same for children and i note some of the replies from TDers concerning their own experiences whilst growing up. My father slapped my legs only on one occasion and it is an experience that i believed i did not deserve. Hence i have been very careful to ensure that my own children did not experience similar. It is never easy being a parent but we as adults must assume the huge responsibility for their well being. Spending quality time with our own can lead to rewards both at the growing stage and later in life although as i have previously mentioned there are no guarantees. Displaying bad behavour as a parent is not the sort of guidance that is likely to promote good behaviour in a child.

I tell my baby off..we do on occasion give her hand a little tap and say no but..generally 99% of the time I will just tell her know and wag my finger..this also works very well...with the Daddies not happy look...raised eyebrows...but when she smiles and giggles back at me...I can't help but laugh and smile...

CRAP DAD!!!!!

Originally Posted by crippen

Police report pregnant woman to social services over half-decorated home
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
Last updated at 1:58 AM on 10th November 2009
A pregnant woman who invited a policewoman into her half- decorated home ended up being reported to social workers for being a potentially unfit mother.
Mary Cooke, 27, was visited by police after she called 999 to report that she had nearly been run down by a speeding car.
The officer did not mention that she was unhappy about the state of Mrs Cooke's rented house, but after leaving wrote a memo to the social services.

'I can't believe it': Mary Cooke in the hallway she is decorating
Days later, Mrs Cooke received a letter from Staffordshire County Council, warning her of a potential 'referral' for her unborn child. In addition, the council contacted her midwife.
Last night, Mrs Cooke, a housewife who is 12 weeks' pregnant with her first child, said: 'The letter made me feel sick. I believe someone was judging me for decorating the house and I can't believe it. I'm in the first stages of pregnancy. I'd never dream of bringing a child home to a house being decorated.

More...
Driver 'orders mother and toddler off empty bus in heavy rain'
Branded an abuser for telling off my children in a supermarket: Mother trailed by police and 'chastisement put on record' for at least 14 YEARS
'I told the policewoman we are moving in February. We've been renting privately and we had started decorating, then a bigger house came up for rent and we decided to take it.
'But we thought it was only right to finish off what we'd started for the next people who come here.'
Mrs Cooke, of Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire, added: 'They contacted my midwife behind my back, but apparently she said she had no worries.

From yesterday's Daily Mail
'Now they've accepted that the policewoman may have been a little over zealous, so none of this will go against me in the future. They've decided to let the matter rest.
'It seems that the police and social services go from one extreme to another, they either do nothing and a little child dies or they go completely over the top.'
The case emerged after a mother in Southampton was secretly followed home by an off-duty policeman after she was spotted telling off her children at the supermarket check-out.
Six weeks later, two officers arrived at her home and questioned her about disciplining the youngsters, a boy of 11 and a four-year-old girl.
Yesterday, the Daily Mail reported that the 34-year-old mother, who does not want to be named to protect her children's identity, is now on a social services watch list until her two children leave school. She fears she will be 'criminalised' for life.
Mrs Cooke was visited by police after ringing to say that she had nearly been run over by a car that went through a red light. During the conversation she told the policewoman she was pregnant.
Mrs Cooke said the officer spent five minutes in the hall and living room of her semi-detached home and would have seen the stripped walls and floors.
She added: 'I know the wallpaper is off the walls and there were a couple of nails lying around, but the policewoman didn't say anything while she was here. Other expectant couples should be warned: be careful when you let police officers into their homes, because they can be judging you.'
The letter was sent from the council's children's services first response service, in Stafford. It says a referral regarding the unborn child had been made by police.
A spokesman for Staffordshire Police said: 'Our officers aim to act in the best interests of everyone they come into contact with.
'Their role can include making sure people get any extra help and support they might need.'
He declined to confirm whether the officer had referred Mrs Cooke to social services.
Enlarge


Read more: Police report pregnant woman to social services over half-decorated home | Mail Online

Yeah, some of these stories are a little odd. Things like this happen all over the place.

Used to hear of people deliberately reporting their neighbours to the police or social services, just to get back at them for some minor disagreement.