Thread: Health Insurance in the U.S.

...and bought

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Do you trust you cut 'n pastes enough to put your money where your mouth is Booners?

Too much evidence out there in the public domain to ignore. Why do you suppose he's trying to rush this piece of crap thru Congress? BO and his supporters argue that when healthcare has been absorbed by Big Government, costs can be kept down by preventing innovation. Basically, they are blowing smoke up yer ass:

So that's a "no" then, thought as much..

of course it's a 'no'.

this is simply more 'echo chamber' nonsense generated by conservative propagandists.

this sort of crap starts on the rabid blogs, is eventually picked up by the likes of worldnetdaily or newsmax, then it becomes a headline on drudge, which is followed by commentary on FIX news....all in the hopes of it finally making it into the reputable media.....whether it be a question at a press conference or even being totally debunked...as long as the phony story is being talked about, it's a success for the echo chamber.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

^
Not to worry...it still won't pass. America ain't as ready for socialized medicine as you may wish for. I won't be taking advantage of any of that Medicare etc anyhow as I'll be living out the 'golden years' in Thailand...

Righto, fair enough.

Still if you're going to be anti-something it might help your case to actually be informed on what it is you're opposing.

That being said I'm only too happy to help if there are any other bits of misconceptions, lies, or disinformation that I can clear-up for you? PM me if you like, being that you're an American citizen and this affects you directly... Well, suffice to say that it might be a bit embarrassing having to rely on me for accurate information.

We'll just keep it between the two of us eh.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Not to worry...it still won't pass. America ain't as ready for socialized medicine as you may wish for.

Wonder when then? Maybe by 2017 when the costs will be 20% of GDP.

Originally Posted by Norton

Wake up America. Our system is inferior to France's as well as several other countries and costs more.

Somebody making a shit load of money here and it ain't the American taxpayer.

In all seriousness this is the part that, no matter how hard I try, I simply can't understand - how can so many people be so gullible??

Right back to the days of Reagan fronting the 'socialised medicine = Communisim' campaigns Americans have fallen for it hook, line and sinker. Such is the ingrained fear that many are apparently prepared to accept an objectively inferior system that is failing than try and fix things. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

And the final irony of it all is that it's based on a concerted propaganda campaign - the same tool that the feared 'Commies' would utilise.

The most agressive Lobbyists are the private medical insurance industry. I'm not sure what will come out, but last thing I read they appear to be getting their way, i.e. there will not be a low cost government alternative- it will just be competing private plans. This is contrary to the public interest.

At least it will be an improvement on the current situation, but it wouldn't surprise me if the whole issue is revisited in a few years, when it is apparent that health insurers greed is still causing US citizens to pay more for health insurance than is necessary, or desirable. But the AMA and HMO industry is basically on board. I doubt health care reform can be stopped politically.

Originally Posted by Norton

Somebody making a shit load of money here and it ain't the American taxpayer.

Yeah, it's the HMOs and investors like Warren Buffet. The US spends more than anybody on its health care system and has a lower life expectancy than either Canada or France. Our system favors admininstrators over nurses. That's why more people these days want a Masters in Health Care Administration than to become nurses or doctors. Our health care system costs Americans jobs. Toyota would rather be based in Canada than have a free factory in Alabama because of US health care costs.

Wake the fuck up Boon Mee ...

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Not to worry...it still won't pass. America ain't as ready for socialized medicine as you may wish for.

Wonder when then? Maybe by 2017 when the costs will be 20% of GDP.

If 'they' can figure out how to keep the illegals from collecting on hard-working American taxpayers contributions then maybe it'll have a chance...

"They" need to grant amnesty to the illegals and start encouraging Mexican immigration. The US needs cheaper labour. The US needs those Mexicans to become taxpaying citizens as soon as possible. The US can't compete with countries like Thailand who only pay their workers 150 baht a day. Or Chinese companies that get away with 16 hour days and then let the workers go before they pay them.

Heh...in rebuttal to Ant's diatribe - socialist / nanny-stater point of view:

Obama says: "But keep in mind - I mean this is something that I can't emphasize enough - you don't have to participate. If you are happy with the health care that you've got, then keep it."

THE TRUTH: The health bills now before Congress would force you to switch to a managed-care plan with limits on your access to specialists and tests.
Two main bills are being rushed through Congress with the goal of combining them into a finished product by August. Under either, a new government bureaucracy will select health plans that it considers in your best interest, and you will have to enroll in one of these "qualified plans." If you now get your plan through work, your employer has a five-year "grace period" to switch you into a qualified plan. If you buy your own insurance, you'll have less time.

And as soon as anything changes in your contract - such as a change in copays or deductibles, which many insurers change every year - you'll have to move into a qualified plan instead (House bill, p. 16-17).
When you file your taxes, if you can't prove to the IRS that you are in a qualified plan, you'll be fined thousands of dollars - as much as the average cost of a health plan for your family size - and then automatically enrolled in a randomly selected plan (House bill, p. 167-168).
It's one thing to require that people getting government assistance tolerate managed care, but the legislation limits you to a managed-care plan even if you and your employer are footing the bill (Senate bill, p. 57-58). The goal is to reduce everyone's consumption of health care and to ensure that people have the same health-care experience, regardless of ability to pay.


Obama says: "I want to start by taking a new approach that emphasizes prevention and wellness so that instead of just spending billions of dollars on costly treatments when people get sick, we're spending some of those dollars on the care they need to stay well, things like mammograms and cancer screenings and immunizations, common-sense measures that will save us billions of dollars in future medical costs."


THE TRUTH: The two most prevalent diseases of aging -- cancer and heart disease -- are largely caused by genetics, and their occurrence increases with age. Your risk of being diagnosed with cancer doubles from age 50 to 60, according to the National Cancer Institute.


Obama says: "Nobody is talking about reducing Medicare benefits. Medicare benefits are there because people contributed into a system. It works. We don't want to change it."


THE TRUTH: The Congressional majority wants to pay for its $1 trillion health bills with a $500+ billion cut to Medicare. This cut will come just as Medicare enrollment increases by 30%. Less money and more patients will necessitate rationing.



For more lies, dammed lies and BO's Health Care fiasco exposure go here

Take off the hoodwink Boon Mee ... middle class Americans have become much worse off during the past 30 years. Deregulation only served to make the rich richer without having to invest a dime on the backs of the taxpayers. And on top of that the rich are lavished with huge subsidies on the backs of the taxpayers. The rich have gotten richer and have gotten smarter about how to make money off the government and not share anything with the taxpayers.

There is plenty, plenty of money in America ... it's high time the money went to something like universal health care for the little man instead of into the pockets of the fat cats.

I hate socialized health care ... despise it ... but I hate even more how much the rich have gotten away with the last 30 years. They don't invest shit back into America ... they just sit on it and leave trust funds (that should be taxed heavily) to brat arsed smarmy inbred kids.

Obama is going to win ... I'll put money on it. And I'll vote for him again for a 2nd term.

^

I've definitely crossed you off my Christmas Card list...

I like Presidents who do the right thing.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

I like Presidents who do the right thing.

And this asshole is doing the 'right' thing?
You are severely mistaken. Remember, even tho you are living on a generous government pension, you still hold a US passport and this POS will raise yer taxes along with the rest of us.

Just when life looks like easy street...?

You gotta spread the wealth, Boonie! And look what a wonderful job they're doing with "cash for clunkers". Fek me, you better apply for a Canuck passport. We ain't even that stupid.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

And look what a wonderful job they're doing with "cash for clunkers".

This one actually seems pretty sound to me Jet. They are extending it too. From the same article above-

On a separate issue, Pelosi said she isn’t sure whether Congress would need to add more than the $2 billion that the House approved today to continue a program to scrap older, more polluting vehicles.
The House voted today voted 316-109 to add $2 billion into the cash-for-clunkers program after consumer demand exhausted the initial $1 billion in less than a week. The program has generated 250,000 in car sales over six days, she said.
“There may be a diminishing return that happens after a while after many of these cars have been traded in, but in the meantime, there are jobs in the auto industry,” Pelosi said. “We have helped the consumer. We have had an impact on the economy, and we have protected the environment. So it is all very positive.”

^Then why do they have to add more $$? How many of these "buyers" are on free financing and will never be able to pay?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Then why do they have to add more $$?

Thats pretty obvious innit- to buy back more clunkers, and sell more new cars.

I am not privy to financing arrangements, but I would presume that the orgy of irresponsible lending that led us into this mess has been addressed. Certainly hope so.

^ Good one, SB. Just add more spending to fix it. 5555555555

And on another note:

Friday, 31 July 2009
President Obama's Kenyan aunt has returned to public housing in South Boston as she awaits a deportation hearing early next year, the Boston Herald reported Friday.
Zeituni Polly Onyango, the half-sister of Obama's father, been staying with relatives in Cleveland but moved back to Boston late last year. She moved into her current complex this month.
"Beggars can't be choosers," Onyango, 57, told the newspaper Thursday.
She wore a sleeveless dress she said her nephew bought her years before his rise to the most powerful office in the land.
"I'd like to live in a castle and have a limousine but I don't," she said. "My wealth is my health."
Onyango's deportation hearing is scheduled for Feb. 4, 2010. She lost her bid for asylum more than four years ago, and a judge ordered her deported. But she defied that order and has been living in public housing for years.
Onyango's request is being reconsidered under a little-used provision in U.S. immigration rules that allows denied asylum claims to be reheard if applicants can show that something has changed to make them eligible.
Obama has said repeatedly that he didn't know his aunt was living in the U.S. illegally and believes that laws covering the situation should be followed.
Obama's Aunt Resurfaces in Boston Public Housing - Political News - FOXNews.com

Fek off.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

If 'they' can figure out how to keep the illegals from collecting on hard-working American taxpayers contributions then maybe it'll have a chance...

Treatment of "illegals" has nothing to do with the health care plan.

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) bill passed in 1986 is the culprit. I also believe the legislation is ill advised. Not because it requires hospitals to treat all comers but because there is no provision for hospitals to receive government funding when they do so.

I was extremely disappointed when the then President failed to veto the bill unless provisions were made to fund hospitals.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Again, you won't be taking any money from me there Ant. The numbers don't lie. It's all because of numbers and the facts. When the CBO, the non-partisan budget office, came in with the real numbers, this piece of crap plan died...

But, if it does come back in some form it'll be a watered-down plan towards end of the year. Besides, what do you care? You've got your socialized nanny-state benefits, eh?

The only reason I won't be taking any money from you is because you've refused to this point to put your money where your mouth is.

And what do I care? I don't really, not about the US healthcare system at least. If you as an American citizen want to ignore the objective reality that your system benefits the few and is failing it's really not my problem.

What I do care about however are people spreading lies and disinformation; making fatuous Nazi comparisons and ridiculous claims like the Health Care Bill mandates counseling sessions to pressure the elderly into suicide. So that's why your money's safe - apparently your committment extends to only cut 'n pasting and acting as a relay station for someone else's propaganda, not standing behind what you say.

^ We let you out of jail for this? 555555555555

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

What I do care about however are people spreading lies and disinformation; making fatuous Nazi comparisons and ridiculous claims like the Health Care Bill mandates counseling sessions to pressure the elderly into suicide.

exactly. and unfortunately this has turned out to be another victory for the radical, right wing echo chamber....a totally absurd claim is being discussed in the reputable media....which of course was the intention of those spreading the disinformation.

A campaign on conservative talk radio, fueled by President Obama's calls to control exorbitant medical bills, has sparked fear among senior citizens that the health-care bill moving through Congress will lead to end-of-life "rationing" and even "euthanasia."

The controversy stems from a proposal to pay physicians who counsel elderly or terminally ill patients about what medical interventions they would prefer near the end of life and how to prepare instructions such as living wills. Under the plan, Medicare would reimburse doctors for one session every five years to confer with a patient about his or her wishes and how to ensure those preferences are followed. The counseling sessions would be voluntary.

But on right-leaning radio programs, religious e-mail lists and Internet blogs, the proposal has been described as "guiding you in how to die," "an ORDER from the Government to end your life," promoting "death care" and, in the words of antiabortion leader Randall Terry, an attempt to "kill Granny."

Kill Granny media campaign alarms seniors - Politics- msnbc.com

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

We let you out of jail for this?

we?