Health Insurance in the U.S.

**foreigner** · 10-06-2009, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

^ Fine. That's why "free" healthcare is insanity. Folks won't take responsibility for themselves. And when the docs offices and hospitals are overloaded with freeloaders who didn't look after themselves, these same freeloaders will be the ones screaming.
Oh, and what's a tweeker?

as long as employer provided healthcare premiums are fully taxed this is fair.

**Boon Mee** · 12-06-2009, 10:20 PM

Well, don't expect any sweeping Obama-care to pass. For starters, how do these 'Progressives' AKA Liberals intend to pay for it? It's gonna cost somewhere between $1.0 trillion and $1.5 trillion over ten years.

Source

**Boon Mee** · 15-06-2009, 07:02 AM

Heh..told ya so:

“The great thing about government health care is … you can start denying coverage for demographics that don’t vote for you.”

**Boon Mee** · 16-06-2009, 12:56 AM

Obama Adopts Healthcare Ideas He Condemned McCain For

Not long ago, the BO was slagging-off John McCain for wanting to finance a healthcare plan with cuts to Medicare and Medicaid:

It looks like he will be taxing health benefits too, just like he condemned McCain for wanting to do. Unlike the supposed cuts, the new taxes will be real and hit middle-wage earners.

What a guy...

**Jet Gorgon** · 16-06-2009, 01:25 AM

^ Booners, I just can't figure where he's going to get all the money. Taxes, fewer services, cuts in doc/hospital costs? My Mayo Clinic friend is moving back to Canada! She says it's going to get really bad in terms of services and her pay. But, what she'll earn in Canada, even if she heads her department as she has been offered, is less than what she makes now. If Obama gets his way, the US will have healthcare like Canada, and trust me, you do not want that.
I also heard that of the 48 mil or so uninsured, about 12 mil are illegal aliens. So, you folks will be paying for them and fighting for a hospital bed with them, too. That really sucks.
Rising health care costs put focus on illegal immigrants - USATODAY.com

**Boon Mee** · 16-06-2009, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

^ Booners, I just can't figure where he's going to get all the money. Taxes, fewer services, cuts in doc/hospital costs? My Mayo Clinic friend is moving back to Canada! She says it's going to get really bad in terms of services and her pay. But, what she'll earn in Canada, even if she heads her department as she has been offered, is less than what she makes now. If Obama gets his way, the US will have healthcare like Canada, and trust me, you do not want that.
I also heard that of the 48 mil or so uninsured, about 12 mil are illegal aliens. So, you folks will be paying for them and fighting for a hospital bed with them, too. That really sucks.
Rising health care costs put focus on illegal immigrants - USATODAY.com

Well, Obama's Zombie Health Care Plan will drive a lot of Professionals out of Medicine for sure. Here's a good piece - The Lying Liars of Socialized Medicine:

The money quote: "put simply, government bureaucrats would decide whether your parents or your children or you live or die. They'll use statistics and actuarial tables and computers in Washington, DC to figure out which treatments are most affordable, where in the queue you'll be placed and how rationing will work."

Link

Sounds like something right out of Euroweenieland or Soviet Russia...

**foreigner** · 18-06-2009, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

No it won't. If you don't earn it, you don't desreve it.

Can't be more simple than that, eh?

the Dims have the votes .. the only question is do they have the balls.

**sabang** · 18-06-2009, 10:36 AM

If private health insurers had done a decent job, and medical costs in the USA had been kept under control, then the naysayers might at least have a leg to stand on. But you don't.

The facts are :-
The US public uniformly expresses lower satisfaction with private insurers than Medicare
The US spends a higher percentage of it's GDP on medical care than any other nation, yet a large percentage of the population is uninsured or underinsured
The US is the only advanced nation not to have a universal health care system
The US has a lower life expectancy than virtually every other advanced nation
Health costs are a factor in 65% of US bankruptcies

So it's game, set and match. Public Healthcare and Greed do not mix- one cannibalises the other.
If anything, Obama is being too cautious about the process. The US public urgently needs a decent public healthcare system, and it enjoys overwhelming public support.

Stuff the Healthcare lobby groups- they represent the opposite of their name, and their sole interest is lining their own pockets at the expense of the Public.

**foreigner** · 18-06-2009, 09:43 PM

the American public overwhelmingly favors a choice between getting insurance coverage either through the private market or a government run option. Indeed, 76 percent of respondents said it was either "extremely" or "quite" important to "give people a choice of both a public plan administered by the federal government and a private plan for their health insurance."

Obama Boost: New Poll Shows 76% Support For Choice Of Public Plan

**jim1176** · 19-06-2009, 12:32 AM

All public workers (cop scum, teacher scum, mailman scum etc) should be required to take the public option

**barbaro** · 19-06-2009, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

If private health insurers had done a decent job, and medical costs in the USA had been kept under control, then the naysayers might at least have a leg to stand on. But you don't.

I just read in the USA today 5 minutes ago that health care costs (premiums) are expected to rise by 9% this year.

This is hurting companies and people under these employer-employee payment plans and also those who pay for private insurance. I'll post a snippet of the article and link when I get back to the site (I'm on a slow internet connection).

**Jet Gorgon** · 19-06-2009, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

bureaucrats ...will... figure out which treatments are most affordable, where in the queue you'll be placed and how rationing will work."

Yep. And if you ain't a minority on welfare or if you're over 65 you ain't gonna get diddley.

Originally Posted by sabang

a large percentage of the population is uninsured or underinsured

*sob* and with BO's plan, there will still be 38mil or so uninsured. Not much difference except everyone who actually works for a living and makes good dosh coz they earn it will be paying for the slobs who do not and who will be clogging the system.

**Boon Mee** · 19-06-2009, 04:45 AM

This Obama Zombie Health Care Plan is pure BS:

**sabang** · 19-06-2009, 06:09 AM

*sob* and with BO's plan, there will still be 38mil or so uninsured

How so Jet?

**mellow** · 19-06-2009, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Well, don't expect any sweeping Obama-care to pass. For starters, how do these 'Progressives' AKA Liberals intend to pay for it? It's gonna cost somewhere between $1.0 trillion and $1.5 trillion over ten years.

Source

Stop fighting the 2 wars which are depleting our coffers, that should provide plenty of money.

**Jet Gorgon** · 19-06-2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

*sob* and with BO's plan, there will still be 38mil or so uninsured

How so Jet?

Even the CBO says so. Sorry, I was out by 2mil. (And this quote is from the libbie NYT.)

An analysis released Monday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office raised the hurdles for draft legislation in the Senate just as its Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee planned to begin voting on Wednesday. The office concluded that a plan by the committee’s Democratic leaders, Senators Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut, would reduce the number of uninsured only by a net 16 million people. Even if the bill became law, the budget office said, 36 million people would remain uninsured in 2017.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/he...y/16obama.html

**jim1176** · 20-06-2009, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

^ Fine. That's why "free" healthcare is insanity. Folks won't take responsibility for themselves. And when the docs offices and hospitals are overloaded with freeloaders who didn't look after themselves, these same freeloaders will be the ones screaming.

You are describing the current system, what is needed is less free (company provided) insurance and higher deductibles so people take responsibility for themselves. Insurance should be for major medical bills, not a DR visit. The entire current system is a scam. Any Thai in the US should be denied outright or charged double, fcuk off.

**Jet Gorgon** · 20-06-2009, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by jim1176

You are describing the current system, what is needed is less free (company provided) insurance

Interesting. Why are the unions (being big Obama supporters and all) against this change and the taxation that will likely be applied to these "greedy" folks who get these bennies ($15k-$22k in health benefits for union members a year)?

**foreigner** · 21-06-2009, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

This Obama Zombie Health Care Plan is pure BS:

but BS supported by the majority in a democratic society:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/he...er=rss&emc=rss

Americans overwhelmingly support substantial changes to the health care system and are strongly behind one of the most contentious proposals Congress is considering, a government-run insurance plan to compete with private insurers, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

The poll found that most Americans would be willing to pay higher taxes so everyone could have health insurance and that they said the government could do a better job of holding down health-care costs than the private sector.

**raycarey** · 21-06-2009, 04:21 PM

yes, americans do overwhelmingly support a govt. administered health insurance program.

June 21, 2009

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll_graphic_ready.html

**barbaro** · 22-06-2009, 12:44 AM

There is a lot of propaganda right now about the health care system and possible ways to improve it. It's so complicated that I don't follow it too closely. But once again, as a US citizen I know first hand how bad the health care is in the US.

Something has to be done. I don't know what but something has to be done. An acquaintance of mine works full time, and has no health insurance. Got in a motorbike accident wearing a helmet. had scrapes and bruises, but also a very bad headache.

He went to ER. Cat Scan of his brain $3,000+ and patches = a total bill of over $6,000+ USD.

**Jet Gorgon** · 22-06-2009, 09:56 AM

^ Huh. Do illegal immigrants have to pay at ER?

**Norton** · 22-06-2009, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Milkman

There is a lot of propaganda right now about the health care system and possible ways to improve it.

Pretty clear the first step is to get cost under control. If this could be done, I doubt there would be an issue. BTW, getting cost under control is exactly what the Obama administration is proposing.

**Jet Gorgon** · 22-06-2009, 10:23 AM

^ 55555 Costs for who, Norts? What's the CBO estimate for the plan? Over $1.6 tril now innit? Oh ya, but folks' individual costs will go down coz their care with also go down and docs and hospitals will say FO. Hello, United States of Canada/France/UK/Japan.

**Norton** · 22-06-2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Costs for who, Norts?

Individuals and employers would cover most. Then the "freeloaders" on medicare and the like could continue without a non sustainable escalating cost to taxpayers.

Think it is 1 trillion based Sen. Kennedy "plan". Any plan for public health care will be the outcome of the what Congress pens in the next few months. Until that comes out all cost estimates and debate are simply speculation.

With 72% of the public favoring "public health care" as per the New York times poll above, appears it will happen. Simply a matter waiting to see the details.

For the moment, opponents of public health care will just have to use that oft used label of "socialism" to garner support to retain what by any measure is a failed US health care system.

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