Thread: Deaths on Koh Phi Phi

How many people have been killed on Koh Phi Phi because of terrorism in the last few years?

It's a wild speculation.

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

Actually, if I had to guess I would say they died from organophosphate (pesticide)

Unless they had been exposed for a long period that is very unlikely.

^He's a bar stool expert on Thailand.

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

^ Coming from the man who thinks these deaths are part of a Muslim terrorist attack.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by mrsquirrel

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

Actually, if I had to guess I would say they died from organophosphate (pesticide)

Unless they had been exposed for a long period that is very unlikely.

(notice that when it says symptoms “include” that it does not mean all symptoms must be present. Also note that it is possible, or even likely, victims were exposed to more than one toxic chemical—after all, this is Thailand).

“Organophosphate Poisoning - symptoms and treatment

Different people have different symptoms of OP poisoning. Symptoms depend partly on how much OP they have been exposed to, whether they have had single massive exposure, or chronic sub-lethal exposure, whether it has been combined with other chemicals and OPs and how good their body is a coping with toxic chemicals.

Symptoms divide into the following categories:


Acute Organophosphate poisoning
This is the syndrome recognised by doctors and Poisons Units. Symptoms occur within 24 hours of exposure and include collapse, breathing problems, sweating, diarrhoea, vomiting, excessive salivation, heart dysrrhythmias, extreme anxiety etc. Treatment is with atropine. You have to have a large dose of OP to have this effect (eg. drink some of the dip!) and so this syndrome is rarely seen.

No obvious symptoms at all
A Government sponsored study at the Institute of Occupational Medicine of farmers who regularly handled OPs but who were complaining of no symptoms showed that they suffered from mild brain damage. Their ability to think clearly and problem solve was impaired.

Sheep dip 'flu (mild acute poisoning)
This is a 'flu-like illness which follows exposure to OPs. Sometimes the farmer just has a bit of a headache, feels unusually tired or finds he can't think clearly. This may just last a few hours to a few days and the sufferer recovers completely. Most sufferers do not realise that they have been poisoned and put any symptoms down to a hard day's work. It can occur after dipping, but some farmers will get symptoms after the slightest exposure, such as visiting markets and inhaling OP fumes from fleeces.”

Much more good information in this article which is found in full here:

Organophosphate Poisoning - symptoms and treatment | Dr Myhill

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

Acute Organophosphate poisoning

This is the syndrome recognised by doctors and Poisons Units. Symptoms occur within 24 hours of exposure and include collapse, breathing problems, sweating, diarrhoea, vomiting, excessive salivation, heart dysrrhythmias, extreme anxiety etc. Treatment is with atropine. You have to have a large dose of OP to have this effect (eg. drink some of the dip!) and so this syndrome is rarely seen.

Remember, this statement-- (Acute Organophosphate poisoning) is rarely seen"--is coming from a doctor in a western European country where there are rules, regulations and laws against indiscriminate pesticide use and there is also an educated public that knows you don't spray yourself with pesticide while gardening and you don't re-use pesticide containers for water containers, etc. So of course it is rarely seen there. But Thailand has thousands of acute poisoning cases show up at hospitals every year, and thousands more go unreported, as did the case of my wife's uncle who accidentally poisoned himself in the rice fields by letting the poison get all over him, breathe it, etc. He refused to go to the hospital even though, to me, he looked like he was about to die. And I have read--I think there are posts on Teakdoor about some of them--of many cases of both suicides and homicides committed in Thailand using pesticides.

Two theories:

1. cyanide dumped in the cess pool (cyanide is used by unscrupulous fishermen, and there may be some on Phi Phi). drain cleaner containing hycrochloric acid (HCL) could also have been dumped in the drains, as it's used as a drain cleaner.
Hardly any shower drains in Thailand have P traps, and very few plumbing systems are vented properly. HCL was used as an accellerant for Cyanide in Nazi gas chambers. The combo makes for a quickly debilitating/killing gas. As far as I know, there is no forensic report of the condition of the victims' lungs.

2. Someone may have used a plastic container to store pesticide. One or more of those water bottles may have been reused. That would explain blistering reported in vicitms' stomachs.

Regarldless, we hear next to nothing about any real investigation, and don't know for sure whether on is going on. All indications are Thai authorities want this swept under the rug.

^theorie 3. somebody poisoned them on purpose.

Has this story been succesfully swept under the rug by the Thai authorities?

Give it time... In a few weeks the dust will settle and the only people still paying attention will be the families...

Case in point - the nightclub that burned down on New Year's eve - where did that case disappear to?

This is the way Thailand operates.

disgraceful, but again Thais like Americans have a short attention span

^Yup!

--
On the same note, a German tourist dies in Phuket after severe vomiting.

German, 57, dies in Phuket after severe vomiting

PATONG, PHUKET: A 57-year-old German national died on the way to a Phuket hospital in the early hours of May 12 with symptoms similar to those of two tourists who recently died on Phi Phi Island in Krabi.

The deceased, later identified as Ernst Hermannweid, had been staying at the Sky Inn Hotel in Patong.

Mr Hermannweid had gone for a few drinks at a bar in Patong when he complained of feeling unwell.

He returned to his hotel, where he started vomiting violently.

He was taken by a female companion to Patong Hospital, where he was reported as dead on arrival.

Extensive efforts to resuscitate him failed.

The nurse on duty at the time told the Gazette, “We tried to help him but he had passed away before he arrived at the hospital and the body was already turning blue.”

“We are now waiting for his relatives in Germany to confirm whether they would like us to perform an autopsy,” she added.

A source at the hospital said the course of Mr Hermannweid’s rapid demise was consistent with infection by the Eltor-Okawa cholera bacterium that also causes severe diarrhea. However, the source warned that it was impossible to know for sure without a full autopsy.

Phuket: German, 57, dies in Phuket after severe vomiting

Could this be the same thing that Jill St. Onge died from?

Originally Posted by phuketbound

Extensive efforts to resuscitate him failed.

What like??? touching his neck to see if he was breathing!!!! extensive as in how much cash he had on him at the time of his death and how much gold....and then how much was in his personal possesions after the police found him....'extensive'

Anything that the Thai's seem to deem damaging generally disappears very quickly over here...they really hate bad press..worse than most things...or so it seems.

I myself 6 yrs ago was poisoned by the local 'clean bottled drinking water' from Samui..a company called R.O Samui drinking water...I was horrendously sick for about 3-5days before seeking medical help then another 3-5 after that!!!...I kept and took the water along with me and the hospital stated that the water was full of cleaner!!!! I asked if I could have a copy of their report on the water and they denied me!!!! they supported the company...and said that it was likely just a single bottle as they had no other reports of water sickness...for those that have been to Samui hospitals are as plentiful as TOP CHAERON OPTICAL shops!!! "We care your life" international my arse!!! can't even put a sentence together correctly let alone my broken wrist, but that's another story...

Agast at this, I said that didn't make me feel any better and I wanted something done, like this being reported to the local authorities. This fell on extremely deaf ears.

So for these poor people that have lost their lives due to some mysterious bacteria..I'm afraid your probably very right in stating that the only people bringing this up in a few weeks is likely to be the relatives only...I'm very sad to say

I can mention so many deaths that have never been given a decent conclusion in the papers over my 6yrs in this country, it's almost unbelieveable..On this note we generally only hear about westerners....

What about the countless Thai's that lose their lives, their families would never push it this far or harang relevent authorities to find out what the hell happened to their loved ones???? probably because they aren't taught to question anyone above their standing- (I'm a teacher, I know they don't question anything)-....doctors, police etc...."that's just what happened" or what we can be arsed to find out anyway. There dead so just leave it at that, abismal attitude from the BIB and other scumbags with power...unless of course your rich, then it's yes Sir no Sir...Khun whatever....

What about the English couple that were murdered in front of a restaurant in Kanchanaburi many years back...That guy never served any time in the nick at all...everytime he was arrested he was released later by his mates after the press was gone!!!

Sad to say but to most We're just farang and there will be more flying in next week to take our place.... what a terrible mess.

I remember a French girl back in 2001-2 not sure which and she was killed and her body dumped by the roadside in the UK, it was on the BBC everynight for ages and also what was being done to find her killer...and the angle on the TV was how terrible a fact was that she was visiting the UK and travelling around our country...We actually seemed to care about her...tourist are an asset and should be treated as such...or you may just find that you ain't got anymore coming if you keep getting bad press.

Wake up and smell the Lao Kow Thailand before word gets out in home countries then maybe you will really have problems after the so called global crisis is over....there are many cheaper places to go now!!!! be warned I think is the message.

Originally Posted by Mr R Sole

Wake up and smell the Lao Kow Thailand before word gets out in home countries then maybe you will really have problems after the so called global crisis is over....there are many cheaper places to go now!!!! be warned I think is the message.

I have been thinking on this for a while now. I believe there is a systemic, and systematic failure in Thailand to protect foreigners. The pattaya fiasco and the airport fiasco were both failures on behalf of the Thai state (and its citizens) to show any consideration or protection for foreigners.

The examples you cite for foreigners murdered in thailand are also pertinent, and again, highlight the lack of protection for foreigners and their welfare. I do not expect that increase concern for foreigners would result in any drop in the murder rate, but it SHOULD be reflected in the administration of justice that is SEEN to be done.

All in all, sadly Thailand fails to protect the lives or the welfare of its foreign "guests" and it will (and should) pay a price for that failure.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

I have been thinking on this for a while now. I believe there is a systemic, and systematic failure in Thailand to protect foreigners. The pattaya fiasco and the airport fiasco were both failures on behalf of the Thai state (and its citizens) to show any consideration or protection for foreigners.

The examples you cite for foreigners murdered in thailand are also pertinent, and again, highlight the lack of protection for foreigners and their welfare. I do not expect that increase concern for foreigners would result in any drop in the murder rate, but it SHOULD be reflected in the administration of justice that is SEEN to be done.

All in all, sadly Thailand fails to protect the lives or the welfare of its foreign "guests" and it will (and should) pay a price for that failure.

There is a systematic failure to look after anything in Thailand.. Anything given and not earned is never appreciated or respected.

^ here here KMART, I also helped work on coral restoration projects and protecting endangered wildlife being exploited. used to make money from tourists!!! (like they don't know better)

Basically Thai's have killed most of the coral reefs on the Gulf of Thailand through over fishing destruction of coral and mangrove forests..designed by nature to support nearly all species that live in or near the sea...including us..

I will allow some global warming arguments for the death of some coral reefs in 1997-8 but generally they have been poisoned and destroyed through greed and stupidity...

Destroying their wildlife...for us tourists to have our photo taken with a baby gibbon in this wonderful land costs around 200-250 bht on the 'paradise' isle of Koh Samui...this pales in comparison of the cost the gibbon family has had to pay..on average 8 gibbons will die trying to protect it 's family from these horrendous kidnappers...and this is just some of the wildlife paraded around the island for 'YOUR' pleasure...

Sadly a lot of tourists I spoke to who came in contact with these sad creatures were completely apathetic...and thought nothing was really that BAD!!! I wanted to tie them up and parade them around asking for money...Actually I've got a great new idea...im off watch out....sorry thinking aloud.

Eventually the Special police came down from Bangkok to do a raid thanks to us on Samui who are concerned and can't stand seeing it anymore...Prossie's OK, rare and endangered animals...Oi NO!!!!!
...

And with watching Her Majesty on her birthday speech last year, nearly crying asking Thai's to look after the forests and to stop cutting them down for the benefit of Thai's and humanity....what more can you ask for?????

Waste of breath your Majesty??..or talking to the wrong race of people...now there are many Thai's that fully believe in looking after the environment..just none of them are in power..and if they were they'ed disappear quickly I'm sure.

So KMART sadly I believe that your assumptions and observations are very true indeed...
So why should people matter???????

Originally Posted by nidhogg

I believe there is a systemic, and systematic failure in Thailand to protect foreigners.

Aint that the truth.
The will fcuk you every chance they get.
The only thing that they are interested in is your hard earned.
Vietnam will be the next place for Farang to settle in ,you can own property there unlike Thailand.

Originally Posted by andyirish57

The will fcuk you every chance they get.
The only thing that they are interested in is your hard earned.
Vietnam will be the next place for Farang to settle in ,you can own property there unlike Thailand.

Matey, The Vietnamese would steal the hairs out of ones arsehole if you stand still long enough.

Good luck, just make sure you keep moving.

^ Got to agree with that, they make the Thais look like do gooders.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

All in all, sadly Thailand fails to protect the lives or the welfare of its foreign "guests"

Are you forgetting that on Phuket tourists were issued with a free whistle to ensure their safety.

^ Free whistles I feel safer already....can just see it now...your getting jacked (I believe is the term) by a couple of homies...and this is how it goes

"Oi..oi tang tang ...money faLang...now..or you die" "hold on a minute chaps....Phwwweeeeeeee...officers...help...I'm being robbed...." "Oi faLang...where you get whistle????...that mine from station...DOH!!!!!..." pop pop pop goes the glock...

And that's just how it went down....

where's the somtam shop.....arrrrrgggggghhhhhhh

Two years ago on Xmas I was staying on the beach in Koh Phi phi. An Italian place. I met an American man , age around 62. He had been there 6 months, Michael was his name, we hung out a bit. He told me he was an economist and had been studying world economy. He told me that when I got back to Amercia I should sell everything I woned. My House, My stocks, everything. he said the whole economy was going to collapse. He said don't take his word, he was going to email me articles to read so I could make a deicision on my own. I stayed until Dec 28th and When I got back home two days later I waited a week for his emails but they never came. I called the bungalow and asked the owner where is Michael. He said he died on New Years Eve. Walking home from a bar he stopped to take a piss and fell down a cliff. I tried to follow up on it but the news articles stopped coming very quickly. It sounded very mysterious to me. I think something is going on in Thailand. Not sure what but something smells fishy. if anyone new Michael or has any information about him,please reply. I believe he was from San fransisco, had gray hair with a pony tail.

Was there a post on teakdoor regarding number 4 below, another Norwegian woman who died at the same guesthouse in April? If not, does anyone have information on this death?

“1. The Norwegian woman, of the OP (Original Post?) that died, is Julie Michelle Bergheim.

2. The Norwegian woman, that was Julie's companion and got ill but survived, identified as "Venninnen"?

3. The American woman, that died at the same guesthouse, is Jill Sheree St. Onge.

4. There was another Norwegian woman, at the same guesthouse that died in April, is unnamed. Her autopsy is not ready.”

Below from Jot around the world Posted by Jotman

“The most reliable source of insight we have into what may have happened is Ryan, quoted (elsewhere). He wrote: "I found out later that there is a water treatment plant right behind the guesthouse. I feel that Jill was poisoned by a chemical from that plant."


“Based on the information about the water treatment plant and the symptoms reported by Ryan, it seems to me that the most likely cause of death was chlorine gas poisoning. One of the chlorine storage tanks near the water treatment facility may have sprung a leak. As this report out of New York indicates, even a small leak of chlorine gas container calls for an evacuation:
“If a water treatment plant is, indeed, located near the hotel where the tourists died, then a chlorine storage container may have ruptured. The classic symptoms of chlorine gas poisoning include vomiting. Based on what Ryan has told us, a chlorine gas leak must be strongly suspected.”


Causes


* Chlorine gas is one of the most common single, irritant, inhalation exposures, occupationally and environmentally. Possible sources of exposure are as follows: Industrial bleaching operations Sewage treatment Household accidents involving the inappropriate mixing of hypochlorite cleaning solutions with acidic agents Transportation releases Swimming pool chlorination tablet accidents Storage tank failure Chemical warfare


Clinical History
Cough (52-80%) Shortness of breath (20-51%) Chest pain (33%) Burning sensation in the throat and substernal area (14%) Nausea or vomiting (8%) Ocular and nasal irritation (4-6%) Choking Muscle weakness Dizziness Abdominal discomfort Headachel

* Decreased breath sounds * Tachypnea * Tachycardia * Wheezing * Nasal flaring * Intercostal and subcostal retractions * Cyanosis * Rhinorrhea * Lacrimation * Hoarseness of the voice or stridor * Rales (acute respiratory distress syndrome [ARDS]/noncardiogenic pulmonary edema) * Crepitus (associated with pneumomediastinum)