Thread: We Agree Obama is Doing a Shit Job

^ politics has everything to do with how we define ourselves in economic terms and what vision we have for society and the economic system,

Libertarians are absolute fools, despite having a few interesting points, their political views on economics are simplistic and misguided

You are not a capitalist, you don't even know what the word means, even with the help of wiki

Originally Posted by theudonshawn

Capitalism = An economic system in which wealth, and the means of producing wealth are privately owned and controlled rather than commonly, publicly or state-owned and controlled. Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia also found in most economics textbooks.

That's why smart folks NEVER use Wiki as a source. Use a proper source for your comments; more respect.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

You are not a capitalist, you don't even know what the word means, even with the help of wiki

wow, calling me out for quickly using a wiki for something I have previously read in textbooks and could actually be considered common knowledge. The wiki was for you, not me and I didn't use it to source my comment . The definition is a quote anybody who has taken an economics or government class can rattle off. I had the same definition in my memory since high school...

Thought you might find the wiki useful.

Now, go get on google or down to the library and show me how smart you are... show me where I'm wrong.

Use Wiki but check the sources.

I am questioning your ridiculous claim to be a Capitalist, it doesn't mean fuck all. There is not one definition of Capitalism, there are however School of Thoughts, that's how complex the definition of that word is. So again I am questioning your claim to be a Capitalist, you don't even know what it means apparently. Maybe I wasn't clear first, hopefully you will get it this time. Even Wiki wouldn't help, it's still a good proxy, but it won't help.

The pure form of Capitalism can not co-exist within a participatory Democracy anyway. Under pure Capitalism there would be no employees rights, minimum wages, employee representation, safety or product standards, social welfare benefits, price fixing, cartel or anti monopoly rules. And the majority would never allow for that.

Thus, what we have as our respective political and economic system is modified Capitalism regulated within a social and legal framework. Call it what you will.

^ exactly, even though an early form of pure Capitalism would always lead to a mafia style of economic organization, freedom (cahos) always lead to concentration of power (order) and the destruction of that same original source of power, freedom. You are cutting the competition out.

my favorite economist is Milton Friedman, I just pulled a book from the shelf, I read it a while back, it's called, "Capitalism and Freedom". In this happy book, Friedman talks about the necessity of a capitalist economic system where wealth is privately controlled in order to promote the freedom of people within a real democracy. I don't have all day to fish for cool quotes... but the thesis of chapter 1 is, "there is an intimate connection between economics and politics, that only certain combinations of political and economic arrangements are possible, and that in particular, a society which is socialist cannot also be democratic, in the sense of guaranteeing individual freedom." (8) There is your separation of economic and political arrangements... not a perfect fit for this conversation, but maybe you get my point.

Merriam-Webster's 11th ed Collegiate Dictionary defines capitalism as "an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market"

Furthermore, from the libertarian platform
"2.0 Economic Liberty
A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society."


-sounds like capitalism to me...


Now, I can't be bothered to argue this further unless you show me why I'm not a capitalist. You have made me pull out all sorts of bullshit and sound like a pompous ass. This sort of conversation is terrible without beer...

Today, I have absolutely nothing to do, and I happened to be bored, and this happens to be entertaining. I hope we aren't really taking ourselves too seriously here. If you still think I'm not a capitalist... well OK... I must not be a capitalist... I'll go live in a cave and fart in your general direction.

Shawn, you are in a discussion with a queer Frog and a dude that ain't sure if he is Aussie/Brit or Yank, so your chances of even breaking even with them in their estimation is nil.

^ That's pretty funny for the moonbat station.

It's also pretty obvious what has happened.

The Poll is a 'real time' internet Poll which has been hijacked by the right wing blogosphere- of which booner is an honorary member. The message goes around to the usual Blogs, telling the Conservative faithful to vote 'F'- and thus it is deluged, and hopelessly distorted.

Nice try booner , but :-

Gallup: Congress approval rating at four-year high

The public seems to be warming up to the new Congress.
A new Gallup poll released this morning shows the job approval rating of Congress is now at 39% -- the highest since February 2005. Ratings just two months ago were at 19%, which was not too far from the historic low of 14% reached in July 2008.


Gallup also points out that the ratings are still low by comparison. Obama's approval rating, for example, now stands at 67%, according to Gallup.
The poll interviewed 1,012 adults between March 5 and 8. The margin of error was +/-3 percentage points.

Gallup: Congress approval rating at four-year high - On Politics - USATODAY.com

Be wise to the ways of the Right wing blogosphere. Actually, I think they are copying their tactics from- or being coached by- the Right wing pro-Israeli Lobby.

Boon Mee, you really , hand on heart, believe that all the crap in the world can be laid at BO's door?
Two months after taking the job, he is somehow responsible for the billions of dollars lent as mortgasges to unemployed welfare recipients, the banking crisis, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack being bankcrupt, the loss of billions on Wall ST, the cost of all the billions to shore up the banks, car makers etc?
If you believe that you are either a Republican or a complete twat, or just maybe, both.

Originally Posted by sabang

Under pure Capitalism there would be no employees rights, minimum wages, employee representation, safety or product standards, social welfare benefits, price fixing, cartel or anti monopoly rules

Doesn't that describe the US?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

^ That's pretty funny for the moonbat station.

Another profound statement from the woman trying too hard to sound like a cool chick.
Give it away Jet, it doesn't work.

Originally Posted by rubik101

If you believe that you are either a Republican or a complete twat, or just maybe, both.

Check this out K. Newbie...I ain't laying "the whole world at BO's door" so get yer facts straight...Rube...

Have a nice day

Originally Posted by rubik101

he is somehow responsible for the billions of dollars lent as mortgasges to unemployed welfare recipients, the banking crisis, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack being bankcrupt

No, that shit was started by Clinton admin. so that the darkies minority could have a mortgage just like the working folks had.
Lets do get shit in order here.

^ Do they still have Affirmative Action working for them? Funny, I was doing the NY Times xword the other day and it was all about winners of NAACP Image Awards (all black folks of course) -- glad I got the across words coz I never heard of this awards group. WTF? Do you think they'd mind if we started an NAAWP group? Would that be racist?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

WTF? Do you think they'd mind if we started an NAAWP group? Would that be racist?

Better get the lawyers lined up before ya start anything for just whites, ya know that for negros only is cool and whites can be barred from entry, but you had better not try anything that bans niggers from entry, even if it is a shabby beer bar in an alley in Eufaula Alabama, they have your ass.

Originally Posted by theudonshawn

"2.0 Economic Liberty
A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society."

The problem with that "definition" or platform is not only that is over-simplistic in its objectives, it's assuming too many things. Freedom leads to abuse, and total economic freedom like your group is advocating will lead to chaos and self destruction, so at the end it really doesn't accomplish anything for society as a whole. For example, legal disputes arising from such freedom would become unmanageable, forcing parties to resolve them in more "efficient" ways like violence or using mafia style syndication. If it was the government or the justice system to resolve such disputes, the cost would be so high, that higher taxes would need to be paid, and we all know that paying higher taxes don't go too well with the free marketers school of thought. So at the end, your "definition" is advocating objectives that are contradicting each other in their implementation, would lead to self-destruction or even better, the exact opposite you were trying to achieve, that is the lack of freedom, and "monopolies" through mafia style syndication to protect the assets of their owners.

Hope that helped

Check this out! Anyone can be President of the US, if you have one of these handy, dandy things:

Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen was just a few paragraphs into an address at a St. Patrick's Day celebration at the White House when he realized something sounded way too familiar. Turns out, he was repeating the speech President Barack Obama had just given...

But Cowen was 20 seconds into his second address when it dawned on him that he was giving word for word the speech that Obama had just read from the same teleprompter.

Even the Prime Minister of Ireland can be POTUS!

We are in such good hands with the all-encompassing state of Obama.
Is this guy an empty suit or what?!

Originally Posted by rubik101

Boon Mee, you really , hand on heart, believe that all the crap in the world can be laid at BO's door?

Be a good soldier rubik101 and join the Obama Youth Brigade!

what an amusing thread.

nearly every poll taken since obama took office shows that nearly 2/3 of americans support the president and his policies.

but hey, i hope the rabid republicans on this board enjoy the wilderness.....because they're showing no signs of finding their way out.

Originally Posted by raycarey

what an amusing thread.

nearly every poll taken since obama took office shows that nearly 2/3 of americans support the president and his policies.

but hey, i hope the rabid republicans on this board enjoy the wilderness.....because they're showing no signs of finding their way out.

Gotta link for those so-called 'statistics'?

Boon mee, being on the losing side always hurts. Get used to it. As of 12 April 2009, these are the numbers. 2/3 sits pretty well with me. You and Rush make a pair of twos.....he has a full house.
This an extract from The Times.

Now look at the independent vote. So far, independent disapproval of Obama has indeed gone up since January – but from such low levels to begin with (a mere 14% disapproved three months ago) – it would be premature to make that much of it. But when you look at broader numbers, you find that a whopping 70% of independents in the poll cited by Rove have confidence in Obama to address the deep problems the US faces. On the basic approval question, the Pew numbers give you 61% approval overall – with independents approving of Obama by 56% and Republicans by 29%. With independent support more than double the Republican support and closer to stratospheric Democratic backing, Obama has won the battle for the centre.
Now look at other impressive data. Large majorities believe that the economic crisis will take a long time to fix and are not impatient for results. Hispanic voters – the fast-est-growing demographic – give Obama a 73% approval rating; the under30s give him 75% approval.
In the poll of polls, Obama’s disapproval rate has actually dropped from the high thirties to the low thirties in just the past month. What’s striking is that as Republican hostility has soared, the rest of the country has actually warmed to the new president. When Obama took office, only 26% of Americans believed their country was on the right track. That number is now 40% and rising steadily. In January 23% approved of Congress; now 35% do. Obama’s personal favourable ratings are now higher than when he won the election.