Thread: Six men arrested after Koran burnt on 9/11

Originally Posted by machangezi

You really need to polish up your knowledge about Islam. You don't hesitate painting 1.7 billion people with the same brush. Ignorance on your part, Keda.

Your figures, though I do recall it was 1.5bn not long ago and 1.3bn not long before that. Still, let's not argue about a few hundred million, eh?

And sure, 1.7bn or 2.7bn is all the same, because the one thing they share in common is a dysfunctional ideology based on the supposed ramblings of a schizophrenic homicidal maniac that said it's ok to murder nonbelievers and beat up women and fcuk kids.

Now then Macha, is it ignorance on my part, or ignorance on the part of your 1.7bn brethren? Take your time.

Originally Posted by machangezi

You really need to polish up your knowledge about Islam. You don't hesitate painting 1.7 billion people with the same brush.

It's the direct word of god, according to muslims. This alone is enough to allow broad painting.

Sure, there are different attitudes, but when words, only words are believed to be the direct word of god, it leads to enough disturbing things when you have a pool of 1.7 billion.

I have a copy of the koran.

Later surahs supercede the earlier ones when there is a contradiction. Violence passages in later surahs replacing previous peaceful passages in earlier surahs.

Parts of the original koran was even lost.

This, is the original work a god? Almighty? All-powerful?

machangezi,

Actually I have read the koran; at the request of a moslem colleague, who clearly hadn't, he thought it would tell me about all the good things about islam.

To our surprise much of the book does dwell on the bad things that will happen on the kaffer in the after life and more importantly now at the hands of moslems. He had a crisis of faith, I didn't.

Most religious people out there have very little understanding of their religion, they just follow the rituals that their parents did and from what the priests tell them. This is the cause of christians who are far more unpleasant than they should be, moslems who are far more pleasant than they should be and a Buddhist country like thailand that has a shocking murder rate.

they share in common is a dysfunctional ideology based on the supposed ramblings of a schizophrenic homicidal maniac that said it's ok to murder nonbelievers and beat up women and fcuk kids.

Ignorance on your part.

Here's a verse from the Quran, ""Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve".

I hope it helps. Can you quote a verse from the Quran that says kill the Christians and Jews etc?

Originally Posted by larvidchr

I could go on for ages.

Yes we know.

BTW, you left out the greatest evil of all. Ronald bin Laden.

Sure, there are different attitudes, but when words, only words are believed to be the direct word of god, it leads to enough disturbing things when you have a pool of 1.7 billion.

What's the difference b/w an extremist Muslim and you then?

An extremist Muslim believe in preaching Islam to the whole world. He wishes to see everyone converted to Islam. He's basically imposing his will on others.

That's exactly what you're attempting to do by saying, "but when words, only words are believed to be the direct word of god". It's what they believe. They have the right to believe. I'd say the same for Christians, Jews, Hindus. Banning Cross in Saudi is absurd.

Originally Posted by machangezi

Originally Posted by Tunaka

Originally Posted by machangezi

If the 'Koran burning' wasn't even conceived, do you suppose fewer Americans would be killed?

Koran burning will, rest assured, increase the number of casualties. It is likely that innocent Christians in the south Asia and middle east would be persecuted.

Is it all worth it?

Muslims persecute Christians in muslim countries on a regular basis.

Worth it? Is it worth it to not expose the violent cultish book the koran is?

So if Muslims are persecuting Christians, you'll put all the blame on the Koran? Ever read the Koran?

Whao!! Why do you think Muslims persecute Christians if not because of the teachings of Islam? Could it be they're just schoolyard bullies and there's nothing religious about it?

And never mind if Tunaka has ever read the Koran, more important is if you ever read it, and if so was it in English or Urdu? You do know that your brothers from other mothers insist the Koran is only legit in Arabic? Sure you do.

So when you say your prayers, do you actually know what you are saying or do you ramble away in a foreign language that you learned parrot fashion? And do the rest of your 1.7bn Muslim brethren also have a clue what they're saying, just like you?

Originally Posted by hazz

Most religious people out there have very little understanding of their religion, they just follow the rituals that their parents did and from what the priests tell them.

Yes, I've heard many false statement from Christians and muslims about their own religion, that they follow.

Whao!! Why do you think Muslims persecute Christians if not because of the teachings of Islam? Could it be they're just schoolyard bullies and there's nothing religious about it?

You got it wrong right in the beginning, keda. Not teachings of Islam. Teachings of some stupid mullah. Quran, only the Quran, is the teachings of Islam.

Originally Posted by machangezi

Sure, there are different attitudes, but when words, only words are believed to be the direct word of god, it leads to enough disturbing things when you have a pool of 1.7 billion.

What's the difference b/w an extremist Muslim and you then?

An extremist Muslim believe in preaching Islam to the whole world. He wishes to see everyone converted to Islam. He's basically imposing his will on others.

That's exactly what you're attempting to do by saying, "but when words, only words are believed to be the direct word of god". It's what they believe. They have the right to believe. I'd say the same for Christians, Jews, Hindus. Banning Cross in Saudi is absurd.

You have the right to believe what you want, religion too if you are nut's enough, but you have no right whatsoever to make me take you or your silly beliefs serious, nor rights to demand I respect your reality deficiency and mumbo jumbo rituals.

If you impose your lunacy on me with force or threat's, you are criminally out of order and should be incarcerated in a loony bin.

Originally Posted by machangezi

What's the difference b/w an extremist Muslim and you then?

I'm not an extremist.

I don't believe in religions, and acting out in the name of religion.

I don't believe in violence.

That's 2 of many, many, differences.

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by BobR

Britain really is even more screwed up than America. Burning a book there is at least legal. Sadly stupid ideas seem to start in Europe and work their way to America. There is an absolute right to hate anyone you want to hate.

In this case the English authorities are going completely overboard, it would be almost funny if it was not so serious, important principles of freedom is under attack by the hysterical Islamists, criminal threat's of murder and mayhem is successful in making Authorities shake with fear and submit to alien demands restricting our traditional freedom rights.

Arresting people for burning their own property in form of a book based solely on a fantasy, and thus pressurising a whole population to take the fantastic lie seriously like as if it represent's any truth at-all, is an incredible turn, giving legitimacy to a crazy invented story and it's just as crazy followers.

Apart from that the thing with stupid ideas coming mostly from Europe is a monumental stretch of the truth, most bad influences is coming from American culture or lack of same, and it has been like that for many many years, Woodstock the happy drug sixties with Timothy Leary, cocaine use/abuse as a recreational drug for the rich and famous, movie stars and famous musicians, sports stars and the hip and the smart, caps backwards on the head, gang culture spreading worldwide originating in US ethnic slums, baggy pants hanging down the ass, hip hop and gangsta rap, ensnaring young all over the world to emulate US slum lifestyle and anti social behaviour, sub-primes and unscrupulous financial speculation, a rotten to the core business culture where everything goes, and good high morals have become a ridiculous quaint old-fashioned notion entertained only by losers, fvucking Valentines day ect. ect. I could go on for ages.

Lar, much like the Thai mindset that often amuses us, the Brits are moving towards the concept of doing what seems right today even if it makes us look like fools tomorrow.

They have designed a whip for their own back. If those arrested are convicted of any crime at all, it could seriously backfire when people by the dozen and then hundreds turn up for communal Koran burnings. And of course when the authorities face the consequence that their hasty and likely illegal actions have have triggered a 'movement', they will also need to somehow justify arresting those earlier. And if those arrested are not convicted, they will look rather foolish to have overreacted. They are in a no win situation, caused by their own...fear!

Fear makes people unpredictable, and Brit leaders are very frightened.

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by machangezi

Sure, there are different attitudes, but when words, only words are believed to be the direct word of god, it leads to enough disturbing things when you have a pool of 1.7 billion.

What's the difference b/w an extremist Muslim and you then?

An extremist Muslim believe in preaching Islam to the whole world. He wishes to see everyone converted to Islam. He's basically imposing his will on others.

That's exactly what you're attempting to do by saying, "but when words, only words are believed to be the direct word of god". It's what they believe. They have the right to believe. I'd say the same for Christians, Jews, Hindus. Banning Cross in Saudi is absurd.

You have the right to believe what you want, religion too if you are nut's enough, but you have no right whatsoever to make me take you or your silly beliefs serious, nor rights to demand I respect your reality deficiency and mumbo jumbo rituals.

If you impose your lunacy on me with force or threat's, you are criminally out of order and should be incarcerated in a loony bin.

True. I won't impose my beliefs on you and you don't impose your beliefs on a billion plus population. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by machangezi

they share in common is a dysfunctional ideology based on the supposed ramblings of a schizophrenic homicidal maniac that said it's ok to murder nonbelievers and beat up women and fcuk kids.

Ignorance on your part.

Here's a verse from the Quran, ""Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve".

I hope it helps. Can you quote a verse from the Quran that says kill the Christians and Jews etc?

Abrogation, Macha, abrogation; good try, though. Surely a good Muslim like you knows that verse is from the Meccan Koran and was subsequently abrogated. An awful thought, but you could do worse than check out the Islamic Dictionary in my koran/allah thread...it'll probably leave you much wiser about your own ideology than you clearly are by trying that transparent ploy.

I don't believe you could be as clueless about your own faith as your sidekick scarey; that's his level! What do you think?

Originally Posted by Tunaka

Originally Posted by machangezi

What's the difference b/w an extremist Muslim and you then?

I'm not an extremist.

I don't believe in religions, and acting out in the name of religion.

I don't believe in violence.

That's 2 of many, many, differences.

What about imposing your will on them?

Originally Posted by machangezi

they share in common is a dysfunctional ideology based on the supposed ramblings of a schizophrenic homicidal maniac that said it's ok to murder nonbelievers and beat up women and fcuk kids.

Ignorance on your part.

Here's a verse from the Quran, ""Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve".

I hope it helps. Can you quote a verse from the Quran that says kill the Christians and Jews etc?

The problem is this

• Every moslem I know believes that the koran is divine and perfect.
• Whilst it might be divine, its not perfect; its full of contradictions.
• These contradictions can be logically delt with by abrogating the koran giving priority to later verses.
• Unfortunately the koran has two halves covering the initial time in mecca, and a relatively peaceful religion, and a later second half set in medina which is far less pleasant.

Your peaceful verses are for many moslems over ridden by later verses advocating violence:

[8:13] When thy Lord revealed to the angels, saying, ‘I am with you; so give firmness to those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Smite, then, the upper parts of their necks, and smite off all finger-tips.’

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

for starters

Originally Posted by machangezi

Whao!! Why do you think Muslims persecute Christians if not because of the teachings of Islam? Could it be they're just schoolyard bullies and there's nothing religious about it?

You got it wrong right in the beginning, keda. Not teachings of Islam. Teachings of some stupid mullah. Quran, only the Quran, is the teachings of Islam.

I wouldn't want to put words into your mouth, but it sounds like you are saying any Islamic leader that preaches hate and enmity towards nonbelievers is full of crap. Please clarify. Oh, and even when they quote the Koran in doing so, the same Koran you claim is the teachings of Islam.

How many Korans and Allahs are there? If only one of each, then keeping in mind that sharia is the law of Allah derived directly from the Koran and the Suna, are you saying sharia is NOT the word of your god?

To give you more room for manouevre, which sharia laws if any do you absolutely and categorically refute, and which parts of the Koran or the Suna or any other holy Islamic book, would you proudly point out to your mates as wrong at the local mosque?

Originally Posted by machangezi

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by machangezi

Sure, there are different attitudes, but when words, only words are believed to be the direct word of god, it leads to enough disturbing things when you have a pool of 1.7 billion.

What's the difference b/w an extremist Muslim and you then?

An extremist Muslim believe in preaching Islam to the whole world. He wishes to see everyone converted to Islam. He's basically imposing his will on others.

That's exactly what you're attempting to do by saying, "but when words, only words are believed to be the direct word of god". It's what they believe. They have the right to believe. I'd say the same for Christians, Jews, Hindus. Banning Cross in Saudi is absurd.

You have the right to believe what you want, religion too if you are nut's enough, but you have no right whatsoever to make me take you or your silly beliefs serious, nor rights to demand I respect your reality deficiency and mumbo jumbo rituals.

If you impose your lunacy on me with force or threat's, you are criminally out of order and should be incarcerated in a loony bin.

True. I won't impose my beliefs on you and you don't impose your beliefs on a billion plus population. Problem solved.

I have no religious beliefs so that can and will never happen but it is societies duty and right to treat the mentally ill, especially when the decease is costing innocent life's and oppresses freedom on an unprecedented scale in todays world.

Strength in numbers necessarily do not make you right, that a billion believe in mumbo jumbo makes it even worse, a worldwide epidemic of lunacy and brainwash, religion is as loony as mentally ill believing they are Napoleon, it's based on the same amount of truth and reality, but people wandering around believing they are Napoleon we give medical and psychological treatment, and we remove their kids from home if they try to force their children to accept their sick version of reality.

I wouldn't want to put words into your mouth, but it sounds like you are saying any Islamic leader that preaches hate and enmity towards nonbelievers is full of crap. Please clarify.

Yes, they're full of shit. Instigators of violence.

How many Korans and Allahs are there?

One.

If only one of each, then keeping in mind that sharia is the law of Allah derived directly from the Koran and the Suna, are you saying sharia is NOT the word of your god?

Derived from the Quran? No. Derived from the Sunna? Yes. I don't believe in authenticity of all Hadith.

To give you more room for manouevre, which sharia laws if any do you absolutely and categorically refute, and which parts of the Koran or the Suna or any other holy Islamic book, would you proudly point out to your mates as wrong at the local mosque?

If Hadith is violent. I reject it right away.
Local mosque? You're kidding me, keda.

Originally Posted by larvidchr

I have no religious beliefs so that can and will never happen but it is societies duty and right to treat the mentally ill, especially when the decease is costing innocent life's and oppresses freedom on an unprecedented scale in todays world.

Strength in numbers necessarily do not make you right, that a billion believe in mumbo jumbo makes it even worse, a worldwide epidemic of lunacy and brainwash, religion is as loony as mentally ill believing they are Napoleon, it's based on the same amount of truth and reality, but people wandering around believing they are Napoleon we give medical and psychological treatment, and we remove their kids from home if they try to force their children to accept their sick version of reality.

Well thats your opinion, or belief rather, and you're certainally entitled to it.

It's the truth and you got it wrong, I have no beliefs it's religious people that do, and they try to convince others with no such crazy notions.

Prove me wrong, give just one single scientific verifiable piece of evidence that any kind of God exits Mate, I dare you

Originally Posted by larvidchr

It's the truth and you got it wrong, I have no beliefs it's religious people that do, and they try to convince others with no such crazy notions.

Prove me wrong, give just one single scientific verifiable piece of evidence that any kind of God exits Mate, I dare you

give proof that he does not, yes, proof

anyhow "no god" is still your pet belief, since you can't prove it, no matter how many times you underline it and deny it.

Now it's like running in a circle and trying to fuck yourself.

I call it a day.

Originally Posted by machangezi

...

If only one of each, then keeping in mind that sharia is the law of Allah derived directly from the Koran and the Suna, are you saying sharia is NOT the word of your god?

Derived from the Quran? No. Derived from the Sunna? Yes. I don't believe in authenticity of all Hadith.

You're making no sense. Slow down. Are you saying you do not believe the sharia derives from both the Koran and the Suna, or that it derives from only one?

We are not talking of the hadith, but if there is a single word that you do not agree with in that collection then your statement could be truthful.

To give you more room for manouevre, which sharia laws if any do you absolutely and categorically refute, and which parts of the Koran or the Suna or any other holy Islamic book, would you proudly point out to your mates as wrong at the local mosque?

If Hadith is violent. I reject it right away.
Local mosque? You're kidding me, keda.

Don't you have a local mosque? You poor thing! Never mind, stand by and it'll be coming your way anytime soon.

Still, as you've found a way not to answer let's try a different tact...which sharia laws if any do you absolutely and categorically refute, and which parts of the Koran or the Suna would you proudly point out as evil or wrong or otherwise not the words of Allah to those leaving a mosque after prayers?

If Hadith is violent. I reject it right away.

What if Koran or Suna is violent, do you also reject them right away? Or are you going to try reverse-abrogation again in selecting only peaceful (abrogated) verses as though they are definitive?

I am sure you will agree that not all of sharia is violent, and that even many non-violent parts may be discriminatory and unfair and otherwise repugnant to civilised people.

By the way, which language was the Koran that you have read?

Originally Posted by machangezi

Now it's like running in a circle and trying to fuck yourself.

I call it a day.

I could have told you a long time ago it ain't easy to fcuk yourself. Good try, though.