Thread: New Zealand - Two tourists trapped as Fox Glacier shelf collapses

More than trapped.

Two men were crushed under 100 tonnes of ice at Fox Glacier today.
Constable Tony Le Sueur said the ice fell from the glacier's terminal face at around 4.20pm.
It hit two men, aged in their twenties, who had gone over the safety barriers to get a better look at the terminal face.
Police last night recovered the body of one man using a digger to break through the ice but said it was too dangerous to attempt to remove the second body.
Fox Glacier Guiding chief executive Rob Jewell said some of his experienced guides had helped with the rescue effort.
He did not want to comment on the issue of unguided tourists visiting the glacier.
In 2007, DOC said almost a third of the 600,000 visitors to the West Coast glaciers ignored warning signs and entered danger zones.
In February of that year, two tourists were rescued from Franz Josef Glacier after ignoring warnings and crossing two safety barriers designed to stop them venturing into an unstable ice cave at the glacier's face.
Two men - a 34-year-old from New Caledonia and a 61-year-old from Queensland - were injured, one seriously, when tonnes of ice fell from the roof of the cave.
LeSueur described the pair at the time as "bloody stupid", saying every day tourists ignored the safety warnings about the dangers of the glacier's terminal face.
In October 2000 a woman, who was part of a Thai tour group, was injured at Fox Glacier when she was struck by a falling 500kg block of ice.
The 30-year-old tourist apparently ignored DOC warning signs and a safety barrier to approach the glacier's terminal face.
Fox Glacier will be open to the public tomorrow.
The mens' deaths will be referred to the coroner

more.

UPDATE 8:45am TWO Indian-born brothers from Melbourne have been crushed by falling ice on New Zealand's Fox Glacier.
Rescue crews were able to recover the body of 24-year-old aerospace engineer Ashish Miranda last night.
But attempts to find his brother, 22-year-old student Akshay, who is presumed dead, were abandoned because of dangerous conditions last night, NZPA reports.

Department of Conservation (DOC) staff and glacier workers were monitoring the glacier and the search would resume as soon as it was safe, Constable Paul Gurney said.

He said the two men were the only children of their parents whom they lived with in Melbourne.

Indian website Daijiworld Media Network reported the family had migrated to Melbourne from Mumbai.

A Mumbai-based aunt of the brothers said the family was still hoping and praying that Akshay would be found alive.

The brothers' parents are Ronnie and Winnie Miranda, the website said.

The parents were in the Fox Glacier township, Constable Tony LeSueur, of Hokitika, said.

The brothers were visiting New Zealand with their parents and extended family and were due to leave on Sunday.

The men were crushed by ice after crossing safety barriers at the terminal face about 4.20pm local time yesterday.

While taking photographs the pair were struck and buried by ice after a section of the ice face collapsed, Constable LeSueur said.

Some of the ice blocks in the rubble were the size of large vehicles, he said.

Local guides were quickly on the scene but were powerless to help due to the unstable and unsafe nature of the ice structure, Constable LeSueur said.

A digger working nearby helped clear away a small part of debris and found the body of one of the men. A search for the other man was unsuccessful.

He was presumed dead, Constable LeSueur said.

A heavy rain warning issued for the area could have dramatic effects on the glacier and would either assist or hamper search efforts, he said.

Police would liaise with Department of Conservation (DOC) staff today to assess whether the ice structure had changed enough for another search, he said.

Constable LeSueur said people visiting areas such as the Fox and Franz Josef glaciers needed to respect safety barriers and notices.

Both the Fox and Franz Josef Glaciers were advancing and had vertical, or in places, overhanging terminal faces.

These were extremely dangerous places to be and were continually subjected to unpredictable rock and ice falls, he said.

Originally Posted by peterpan

In 2007, DOC said almost a third of the 600,000 visitors to the West Coast glaciers ignored warning signs and entered danger zones.

Originally Posted by peterpan

saying every day tourists ignored the safety warnings about the dangers of the glacier's terminal face.

I dunno, personally I would say that this is a systematic failure on the DOC. This many people ignoring the signs/barriers just encourages others to do so too.

barriers should be bigger, signs larger, penalties heavier, education about danger more strongly worded etc.

Originally Posted by kingwilly

barriers should be bigger, signs larger, penalties heavier, education about danger more strongly worded etc

Bull shit if you are to thick to know the risk when you jump a safety barrier then you deserve all you get. People need to be responsible for there own actions.

Originally Posted by Rigger

People need to be responsible for there own actions.

yes, but 50 people a day jumping the barrier says that the barriers, signs and/or warnings are not effective.

Use electric fences as barriers.

Originally Posted by kingwilly

yes, but 50 people a day jumping the barrier says that the barriers, signs and/or warnings are not effective

once again its their choice to risk their life, bigger signs arent going to do the trick. I just cant get over this its someone else fault, because it is their fault for jumping the barrier its that simple

Originally Posted by Rigger

once again its their choice to risk their life,

did they know that they were risking their life?

50 people a day crossing a small barrier sort of suggests that they did not.

Originally Posted by peterpan

West Coast glaciers ignored warning signs and entered danger zones.

Sounds to me that they ignored them

Just like unprotected sex, they knew there was a small chance of something, but they did it anyway. Just bad timing, unlucky.

so rigger, Australia has in the past issued travel warnings against thailand and new zealand as well as against Afghanistan and Sudan.

Are the countries all in the same categories ?

Have you ignored the travel warnings to visit those countries?

Bit like a sign innit? some signs are meaningful, some are a waste of space. how do you know which ones are which?

Originally Posted by kingwilly

Bit like a sign innit? some signs are meaningful, some are a waste of space. how do you know which ones are which?

I have made my own choice to ignored the travel warnings plus I was allready living here before the warning. So if something happened I wouldnt be blaming anyyone except my self

Originally Posted by kingwilly

Bit like a sign innit? some signs are meaningful,

if they were allowed to just leave the dead bodies lying there it might be a more effective sign.

but instead some poor cnuts have to risk getting fcuked and go in and retrieve the ex oxygen thieves

Would have thought the turbins offered some sort of protection.

sad to note the concept of personal responsibility for ones own actions has died ..............

Originally Posted by peterpan

It hit two men, aged in their twenties, who had gone over the safety barriers to get a better look at the terminal face.

Sounds like a case of "som nam naa" to me.

Originally Posted by kingwilly

I dunno, personally I would say that this is a systematic failure on the DOC. This many people ignoring the signs/barriers just encourages others to do so too.

If anything, this demonstrates a systematic failure of parenting for most of these people, or a systematic failure of the system passing out intelligence.

Originally Posted by kingwilly

Originally Posted by Rigger

People need to be responsible for there own actions.

yes, but 50 people a day jumping the barrier says that the barriers, signs and/or warnings are not effective.

I agree with Rigger - I personally do not need any special signs telling me to stay away from a HUGE, UNSTABLE, MASS OF ICE THAT COULD FALL AT ANY TIME - in fact, I would probably stay a bit further away than the signs want me to. Then again, my parents raised me in a manner making me understand how most things work, and that pesky 'cause and effect' relationship, particularly when it comes to laws of nature.

I still recall one from my Dad, so very log ago, about when at a beach, and the water recedes suddenly and unnaturally, to run the opposite direction and seek highest ground as fast as possible, because a Tsunami is coming. Combine that with most of the morons on video shown wading INTO the receding waters, while you could see the wave approaching in the distance... So, are you advocating placing large signs at ALL beaches with instructions?

There comes a point when it is an individual's responsibility to educate themselves on the risks of their undertakings -- if they fail to do so, it is no one's fault but their own if they come to grave harm.

Personal Responsibility - it's not just a good idea...

Originally Posted by kingwilly

did they know that they were risking their life?

50 people a day crossing a small barrier sort of suggests that they did not.

A GIANT UNSTABLE WALL OF ICE, with shit falling from it all the time, pretty much spells out "I'M GONNA KILL YOU, IF YOU LET ME, DUMBASS!"

How many people smoke, despite everyone knowing that it will invariably kill 90% of all smokers, painfully? It's a case of "This happens to other people", and losing that gamble.

I see absolutely no one's fault, except the victims' themselves.

Originally Posted by Mid

sad to note the concept of personal responsibility for ones own actions has died ..............

Amen - let us have a minute of silence for it!

Each loss means more opportunities for the unemployed.

HARD-hearted Kiwis are demanding money from the devastated parents of two Melbourne brothers killed in a glacial ice collapse.

The company wants the Miranda family to pay for moving a rental car whose keys were buried with one of their sons.

Akshay Miranda, 22, had the keys to the Toyota Tarago in his pocket when he and his brother, Ashish, 24, were crushed to death at Fox Glacier, on New Zealand's South Island, the Herald Sun reports.

The owner of Wellington car hire firm New Zealand Car Rental Specialists says the family should foot the bill for a new set of keys and the cost of towing the van to Wellington.

Businessman Edwin Chan said he would not bow to emotional blackmail and would charge the Mirandas for replacement keys and towing costs, which he estimates cost up to $1600.

"Anything we get billed we will pass on to these people," Mr Chan said. "We are not charging them for the extra days.

"I do have compassion for them. But they obviously can't expect me to pick up the pieces.

"I don't believe at the end of the day I should have to pay. We have a business and we have to pay the bills. No one will say to me you do not have to pay the bills. They can't use emotional blackmail.

"I think it's just blackmail to a company."

Mr Chan said he would waive rental fees for the extra four days the car had been stuck at Fox Glacier and would try to minimise the additional costs. The hire costs are $96 a day for the eight-seater van.

But he was upset the keys were buried under the ice with Akshay because he was not permitted to drive the car.

"They have both been told not to drive the car," he said of the brothers. "The father and cousin were supposed to drive the car."

Mr Chan also criticised the dead pair for costing thousands of dollars for the search and recovery, saying they contributed to their own demise by entering an out-of-bounds area.

"At the end of the day they have cost the New Zealand Government a lot of money," he said.

The family was also charged $105 for a night they did not use at the South Beach Motel, near Greymouth, booked for the night of the accident.

Linda Goodson, who runs the motel with her partner Steve Nimmo, said they only charged the family for the one night a room was booked.

"There was a party of people booked for the Thursday and Friday night," she said.

"Alfred Fernandes, who is their cousin, rang to say there had been an accident, but he was going to get some of the party up here and to please leave the unit open. They never arrived."

Ms Goodson said she received a call on the Friday to say they would not be using the room and had agreed to pay the $105 fee for the night.

"Everyone is making us out to be the bad guys. We're running a business," she said.

The family, who were yesterday in Christchurch, were too distraught to speak to the media.

It is unlikely Akshay's body will be recovered for weeks. The holiday was paid by Ashish to celebrate the 25th wedding anniversary of their parents, Ronnie and Winnie, from Clarinda.

The getaway turned to tragedy when they watched ice blocks the size of cars rain down, but were unaware at the time their only two children were caught under the ice.

New Zealand authorities have said about a third of the 600,000 visitors to Fox Glacier ignored warning signs not to enter danger zones.

The Mirandas, who were on holiday with their cousins, are expected to return to Victoria within days with the body of Ashish.

Authorities may wait for the ice to melt before they retrieve Akshay's body.

^^Was just reading the same article in the NZ Herald, interesting to see the slightly different perspectives: Little sympathy for parents of glacier victims over car hire charges - National - NZ Herald News

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

interesting to see the slightly different perspectives:

quite.

much like reading the Aussie or South African sport news during the cricket.

A KIWI motel manager will still charge the parents of two boys killed in an ice fall for their unused room. The motel manager remains unrepentant about the decision to charge not to waive a $100 charge for a room not used by the grief-stricken parents of two Melbourne brothers killed during a holiday tragedy.
Linda Goodson, who runs the South Beach Motel in Greymouth with partner Steve Nimmo, emphatically ruled out reimbursing Ronnie and Winnie Miranda's $105 bill despite the Clarinda's couple despair over the deaths of sons Ashish, 24, and Akshay, 22, crushed during an ice fall on a trip to Fox Glacier.
"We are not going to do that,'' she said.
Interviewed by Melbourne radio, Ms Goodson said the Miranda family understood and accepted they would be charged for a room they had booked on the night of the accident.
"I spoke to the family member, he was quite happy with what was happening and now everybody's going on about it,'' she said.
Ms Goodson said New Zealanders supported her and she was unmoved by a barrage of criticism in Australia against her and a Kiwi car rental company boss who is demanding the family pay for a new set of keys for their hire car and the costs of towing it from the scene of the accident.
The key of the car were with younger son Akshay whose body remains trapped under tonnes of ice.
New Zealand Car Rental Specialists owner Edwin Chan said the Miranda's car costs could be about $1600.
"Anything we get billed we will pass on to these people,'' Mr Chan said.
Ms Goodson declined to comment on Mr Chan's stance.
"We shouldn't be lumped in with the rental car company. We are one thing in this situation,'' she said.
"I've got nothing to say about the rental car company, they can do whatever they want. We are the motel.
"I am a human being and I do have feelings and I think what I've got to say is all I've got to say.''