Thread: Plane Carrying 133 Crashes In China, Causes Mountain Fire

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

But not in this situation.
If I understand this correctly they only had a couple of minutes. What could a mayday and the tower do for them in this couple of minutes other than distract them from the task at hand which is not crashing and staying alive.
Answer that question,
of what value would it be to them to be sending a distress signal? And if it is of no value , why would anyone use up their limited time doing something that it is of no value?

There were 3 pilots in the cockpit. A captain, 1st and 2nd officer. The 2rd officer cant do anything unless one of the other pilots is incapacitated. The 3rd officer would have radio access and a headset though.

Jumpseat Information > Jumpseat Resources > Jumpseat Etiquette

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

But not in this situation.
If I understand this correctly they only had a couple of minutes. What could a mayday and the tower do for them in this couple of minutes other than distract them from the task at hand which is not crashing and staying alive.
Answer that question,
of what value would it be to them to be sending a distress signal? And if it is of no value , why would anyone use up their limited time doing something that it is of no value?

Not sure a Mayday call would be of no value. "Going down, tail dropped off" would, indeed be quite helpful.

^ Indeed, it would make things simpler. We'll have to wait for the report to find out the reason. Bear in mind the Second Officer was a trainee and observer in the jump seat. Apart from startle factor, he isn't in a position to issue a Mayday without an order from the Captain. He'll be on intercomm and have access to radio R/T but not frequency control.

We don't know what the onset of the emergency was yet. Posts on pprune suggest it started with a roll and the nose quickly dropped following the lack of lift. There is no indication if electrical power was lost or how violent the maneuver. Whatever it was, it happened quickly and looks to have taken the crew by surprise. It could have been something simple that was overlooked because of interaction with the trainee such as the Turkish Airline incident flight 1951...or any number of other reasons.

I hate it when planes crash, especially when I am just about to fly. Let's hope my faith in the system is justified and the reasons for this accident are uncovered and flying remains as safe as it has been in recent years, except the dreaded max.

Troy will know the first rule of flying I'm sure:

AVIATE
NAVIGATE
COMMUNICATE

In other words, before you make any calls, get the aircraft into stable flight as best you can.

Which in this case it seems was not possible.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Not sure a Mayday call would be of no value. "Going down, tail dropped off" would, indeed be quite helpful.

And that would help them how? By making them feel better?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

And that would help them how? By making them feel better?

Try to keep up Harry. No one said or implied the value of the call would be to people on the plane.

Originally Posted by David48atTD

but I did slip out and change the undies

you whit your daks ?

Data from the CVR is being downloaded by the NTSB in Washington. I can't post links on my phone but being reported in China news. Fingers crossed the data is readable.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Try to keep up Harry. No one said or implied the value of the call would be to people on the plane.

I was just wondering how you think it would have been helpful.

If the tail fell off, it would be pretty fucking easy to determine from the wreckage.

Apparently a documentary has cast doubt on the quality of China Eastern's maintenance procedures.

Documentary Revealing China Eastern Airlines’ Maintenance Procedure Fuels Further Scrutiny Over MU5735 Crash

And there are also questions being asked about the possible demotion of an experienced captain.

According to information made available to the public, Yang Hongda, the captain of the crashed plane, was only 32 years old with a total flight time of 6,709 hours, while Zhang Zhengping, the first co-pilot, was 59 years old with a total flight time of over 32,500 hours.

Pilot’s Mental State a Potential Cause of Crash of China’s Eastern Airlines Flight MU5735, Expert Says

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I was just wondering how you think it would have been helpful.

If the tail fell off, it would be pretty fucking easy to determine from the wreckage.

Jesus Harry. You do struggle some times. That was only an example. Pick another scenario if it helps. The oxygen generator exploded. The controls stopped responding. There is a fire on board. Any clue would be a big help when the alternate is shifting through thousands of pieces of wreckage scattered across a mountain.

NTSB team have flown out to China to provide assistance in the investigation. They will have limited contact outside of the investigation to avoid quarantine regulations.
There's been no word about the data recovery from the FDR yet. I would imagine if they have any problems it will be sent to the US as well.

Originally Posted by Troy

Data from the CVR is being downloaded by the NTSB in Washington. I can't post links on my phone but being reported in China news. Fingers crossed the data is readable.

US panel arrives in China to assist with plane crash probe

Xinhua | Updated: 2022-04-02 20:57

"BEIJING - A working group sent by the US National Transportation Safety Board arrived in China on Saturday to help investigate last month's crash of a China Eastern Airlines aircraft, said the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC).

The seven-member panel, consisting of authorized representatives and technical advisors, will participate in the investigation organized by the CAAC.

The group's main responsibility is to provide technical support in investigating and analyzing the cause of the accident from the perspective of aircraft design and manufacture.

The Boeing 737 aircraft, which departed from Kunming in Yunnan province for Guangzhou in Guangdong province, crashed in Tengxian County of the Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region on March 21. All 132 people on board were killed."

US panel arrives in China to assist with plane crash probe - Chinadaily.com.cn

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

And there are also questions being asked about the possible demotion of an experienced captain.



Pilot’s Mental State a Potential Cause of Crash of China’s Eastern Airlines Flight MU5735, Expert Says

that's the Epoch Times ! Not a legitimate source. Period.

Originally Posted by Backspin

that's the Epoch Times ! Not a legitimate source. Period.

whobare you to talk about legitimate sources?

Boeing has a 737 plant in China. I doubt anyone is going to be blame shifting on this one. Between them both , I don't think either side can hide anything.

But it just goes to show how dumb hyper globalism is. China and Russia could have built an alternative to the 737 20 years ago. Instead of just building a 737 plant in China.

Globalism. The hideous lovechild between Margret Thatcher and Deng Xiaoping. -peter hitchens

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Jesus Harry. You do struggle some times. That was only an example. Pick another scenario if it helps. The oxygen generator exploded. The controls stopped responding. There is a fire on board. Any clue would be a big help when the alternate is shifting through thousands of pieces of wreckage scattered across a mountain.

Maybe it's only me, but I think the controls did stop responding.

Originally Posted by Troy

NTSB team have flown out to China to provide assistance in the investigation. They will have limited contact outside of the investigation to avoid quarantine regulations.
There's been no word about the data recovery from the FDR yet. I would imagine if they have any problems it will be sent to the US as well.

In most countries they would have been onsite well within two days, not two weeks.

Originally Posted by OhOh

It wears its badge with pride. It may have sought to create .... but did it succeed, or get hijacked?

Awwww is hoohoo upset because someone doesn't post chinky propaganda shit?

China reinforces tight control over plane crash mystery

Beijing (AFP) – The cause of China's deadliest air crash in decades remains a mystery, with authorities giving few details in a preliminary report on Wednesday while enforcing strict censorship one month after the disaster.

In the immediate aftermath of the crash, China's ruling Communist Party moved quickly to control information, revving up its censorship machine as media outlets and local residents raced to the crash site.

It has maintained its tight grip over the narrative, with the preliminary probe leaving key questions unanswered.


China Eastern flight MU5375 was travelling from Kunming to Guangzhou last month when it inexplicably plunged from an altitude of 29,000 feet into a mountainside, killing all 132 people on board.


Beijing was required to submit a preliminary report to the International Civil Aviation Organisation within 30 days.

According to that report, investigators found no evidence of "anything abnormal", the country's Civil Aviation Administration (CAAC) said on Wednesday.


The regulator has indicated, however, that it will not make the preliminary report available to the public and a full investigation may take years.


In a statement, the CAAC said staff had met safety requirements before takeoff, the plane was not carrying dangerous goods and did not appear to have run into inclement weather.


No reasoning was given as to why the plane abruptly dropped out of the sky, nor were details shared about the two flight trackers or "black boxes" that were recovered.


The devices -- a cockpit voice recorder and a flight data tracker -- are being analysed at an American lab with the help of US government investigators.


The crash was China's deadliest in around 30 years and dented the country's otherwise enviable flight safety record.


Information chokehold


After the fatal descent near the southern city of Wuzhou, authorities swiftly cordoned off a huge area, with officials -- some wearing military fatigues -- initially denying access to AFP journalists.

Attempts to reach the victims' relatives were rebuffed, as officials housed the bereaved in heavily guarded hotels and blocked reporters who tried to approach them.


Relatives did not respond to AFP interview requests for this story.


State media played up the rescue and recovery effort, even as the few outlets that published details of the deceased found themselves ensnared in online controversy for appearing to capitalise on grief.


Meanwhile, China's internet regulator announced it had scrubbed vast amounts of "illegal information" on the crash from China's tightly controlled web, as a social media hashtag bearing the plane's flight number appeared to be censored.


The information chokehold was a far cry from past disasters, when buccaneering Chinese reporters unearthed damning evidence of government shortcomings -- notably the shoddy construction of thousands of government-built schools that collapsed during the 2008 Sichuan earthquake.


Beijing's strategy in reporting on the MU5375 tragedy has been to stress official action and "de-emphasise emotion", said David Bandurski, director of the University of Hong Kong's China Media Project.


"They don't want human personalities," he told AFP. "It creates sympathy and emotion that can be directed towards agendas that aren't the leadership's."


No surprises


The enhanced public scrutiny around the crash helps to explain Beijing's kneejerk attempts to direct the narrative, said Margaret E. Roberts, an associate professor specialising in Chinese censorship at the University of California San Diego.

Disasters, she told AFP, "can easily turn political".


"Many people pay attention to them at once. As a result, one misstep by the government in their response to the crisis can be very damaging."


In the month after the crash, state media pivoted towards the message that it was time for the public to put the incident behind them -- allowing other events to drown out coverage of the disaster, Bandurski said.


Such diversion tactics mean "we can expect the same type of sensitivity" around reports on the causes of the crash, he added, warning of heightened secrecy in a potentially turbulent year that will likely see President Xi Jinping bid for a precedent-smashing third term in office.


"The last thing they want is another story to come out of left field and surprise them."

China reinforces tight control over plane crash mystery

Originally Posted by misskit

and dented the country's otherwise enviable flight safety record.

Yep, and China is a free and loving democracy…