Thread: Beating your children

JJ....read his next post again as I think you missed it.

Re the better relationship with fathers and kids now than what you may have had with your own Dad......In my case it was not from the beltings that I did not have a good relationship with him...other reasons, so the relationship I have with my son is not therefore because i do not belt him....it is because i love him to death and tell him all the time and do everything with him. We have a great time together and he talks to me non stop. Just this last holiday, he had a ball snorkelling with me for hours. We do lots of stuff like that together.

My old man and me also did things like that together and had fun....but we never got on like I do with my son and I tell him that everyday.

My daughter is a mummies girl but.

I don't know how many other TD members have this problem, but there is a real divide between my Thai wife and I in re screaming at and hitting the kid. My mom was a screamer and a hitter, and my stepfather, a gym teacher. . .I'd rather not go into it, but suffice it to say, I don't like screaming at and hitting kids and won't tolerate it. I haven't spent much time around Thai families, but from what I see and hear around me, including on the noxious Thai TV dramas that my wife watches, a certain amount of beating, screaming, and generally overwrought lunatic behavior is tolerated here provided it is not conducted between strangers.

The odd thing is that my son's mother can't seem to understand why the boy is generally very well behaved when he is with me (which is often, because I have a very flexible schedule) while he tends to push her to limits constantly. I keep trying to explain to her that it is because he knows she will spit out the dummy with little provocation, and I am convinced the little bugger finds it amusing. Being my son I think I have some insight into his thought processes, and I suspect he is like I was- absolutely no tolerance for being bullied and no respect for people capable of persuading others only through main force. What I am concerned about is that his relationship with her isn't likely to improve as he gets older- I am afraid he will gradually lose respect for her (I should mention that I am talking about a very precocious 2-year-old). I actually have asked a pediatrician to explain this to her, but I am not sure it sank in. Anyone know of any Thai family counseling services?

Originally Posted by robuzo

Anyone know of any Thai family counseling services?

You're joking, right?

Originally Posted by robuzo

I don't know how many other TD members have this problem, but there is a real divide between my Thai wife and I in re screaming at and hitting the kid.

Same same to an extent. Thai child rearing seems to be an eclectic mix of random slaps and screamng and over the top coddling. You just have to work on your wife. My missus is better now, but we had to go through a phase of "you slap him, and I slap you" (not carried out of course, but it got the point across).

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by robuzo

Anyone know of any Thai family counseling services?

You're joking, right?

I guess so, in a way, but sometimes I'm not sure when I am letting my cynicism about this place lead me to false assumptions, and when it is correct to be cynical (i.e., usually).

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Same same to an extent. Thai child rearing seems to be an eclectic mix of random slaps and screamng and over the top coddling. You just have to work on your wife. My missus is better now, but we had to go through a phase of "you slap him, and I slap you" (not carried out of course, but it got the point across).

You've reinforced what I have heard from other farangs I've discussed this with in person- Thai mums are very loving, to the point of spoiling the kid (especially the boys); I still can't convince her to let the boy sleep alone, which is turning into a problem. At the same time, they get a bit too passionate, and to be brutally frank, I'm afraid there are some issues which from a Western (or Japanese) point of view would be classified as having to do with a lack of emotional maturity, which here seems mainly a matter of suppressing/repressing true feelings in public; you suppress your feelings but don't necessarily confront them or their source, or acknowledge the need to deal with them. I've been trying the "if you hit him he'll hate you for it" line. That seems to worry her, again because she has seen my own relationship with my mom, which frankly I think she finds horrifying, although from an American perspective it isn't too bad- suffice it to say, I don't worship my mother the way a Thai is meant to (anyone wishing to read more about this should check out the "Holy mother, mother dear" chapter in Mulder's Inside Thai Society).

To go a step further, I think there is another dynamic at work. My wife was raised in a fairly prosperous village setting, where I'm guessing childrearing is more a of collective effort, with elder siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, and of course the indispensable grandparents there to take the pressure off of mom (as for the dads, well. . .the good ones are notable for their rarity). I think things go a lot more smoothly when my kid and his mom are at the village- in addition to having a lot more for the kid to do (dogs and piglets to play with, chickens to chase, lizards to catch, cousins to fight), the burden of looking after the kids is shared. The urban nuclear family concept is fairly new here, and I suspect my son's mom is having trouble coping with it.

Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

Go on, keep justyfying your actions.

Jeez, Jesus! WS didn't hit his boy. The boy accidentally banged his lip as kids will do. WS is obviously opposed to beating kids and has stated so in his posts.

Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

Go on, keep justyfying your actions. It's none of my business at the end of the day, but as you have made it by posting the pictures then yes, obviously your going to get some flack. As for the child now being happy, of course he his. If you beat a dog and cuddle it afterwards it will appear happy for a short moment.

Maybe you should ask yourself if you are confusing your child with violance and effection.

Are you pulling my leg, or are you really that thick? Since I know that we have our fair share of idiots here on TD who either are completely unable to comprehend what is spelled out in detail for them or are being deliberately difficult, I made allowances for imbeciles such as yourself.

Try reading #123 again, this time only the first letter of each sentence. Here, I'll make it easy for you, since it also sums up your posts above:

Below is a picture of my 3 year old son, taken just after a he was disciplined by me.
Unlike his brother, he refuses to listen, and needs to be disciplined almost daily.
Last time I hit him, I hit him in the face, just to scare him and cause some pain at the same time.
Looking at his lip, I think I may have gone a little bit too far this time, since I split his lip, but at least I didn’t damage his teeth.
So, I admit that parenting can be difficult, but kids need to know who is in charge.
He has been behaving well since that beating anyway.
Indeed, both he and his twin brother have been absolutely quiet and obedient since that day.
They quiet down and run away as soon as they see me.

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

Another aspect of physical discipline that I think has been overlooked is the fact as the child gets older, the level of violence administered as punishment must surely increase to have an effect. So when are you going to stop - when you draw blood or cause permanent damage, or perhaps when your child starts to fight back? What happens if your child is stronger than yourself (my twin sons will be 18 when I am 60 - I wouldn't fancy my odds in a fight then, at least not if they team up against me!)

Also, to those of you who have so frequently used it here, please spare me the "I was beaten as a kid, and it didn't do me any harm" hyperbole. It is the absolute lowest sort of argument and proves absolutely nothing. Justifying harm or injury to your kids just because you suffered it yourself is so primitive it is below contempt.

In addition to physical abuse being objectionable on the grounds of the emotional damage it causes (if you abuse your kid to the point of physical injury your kid needs protection from you until you get the help you need), as pointed out above it is also a tactical error. Once the kid no longer fears you physically you will likely also have lost the edge in terms of moral suasion- your child will have lost fear and respect (not the same thing, which sadly seems to be beyond the understanding of some).

I would like to point out that giving a kid a time out on his own in his room hardly needs to constitute mental humiliation or torture. It is simply a way of telling a child that when he is prepared to be respectful of others he can enjoy their company. The thing my kid hates the most is to be ignored- he would rather his mom blow up at him than have his dad ignore his acting up (his mom realizes this in her calmer moments). His timeouts, in his room with his toys, never last more than 10 minutes, because he wants to be with us, and I don't think he doubts we want to be with him (although amusingly he sometimes gets involved in something in his room and doesn't come out when called- I'm guessing he will find more things to involve himself in his room alone when he reaches about age 12).

Of course, this kind of thing only works during the socialization process, and counts on the parent remaining of a figure of authority who deserves respect. Kids may not know much, but it takes them only a second to spot a hypocrite. Don't beat a kid and tell him not to use violence to resolve issues; don't scream at a kid and tell him to be respectful of others. They see right through you. Not trying to be preachy- just repeating here what I am reminding myself of constantly; I know I'll inevitably fall short, it's how badly that matters.

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

But, and this is the point I am trying to make: If my post above were true (and some of you obviously thought it was),think about it - is smacking a kid in the mouth with a fist THAT much different from giving them a spanking?

absolutely!! 100% difference... but if you can't tell the difference? then your right not to spank your children...

No I cannot really tell the difference (and hence neither hit nor spank my kids). Both hitting and spanking are painful for the child, and more likely than not administered with anger. If a spanking is Ok, then how about a slap on the arm? Or a slap in the face? Or a fist in the face?

To me they are all manifestations in various degrees of violence and abuse and not something I will subject my kids to.

Interesting topic, though - much as I disagree with the majority of posters on this subject.....

Agreed, I have never hit my child, there is never good enough cause for it.

In fact, one can also achieve the same negative effect by just yelling at a child. On the few occasions that I have exploded and yelled at my boy, I have seen the damage down and regretted it.

One can hit without using fists or hands. and both methods are wrong and counterproductive.

Smack? Yes I do.

Beat? Never.

Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

Thank you for the explanation, now i understand.

My apologies in that case.

Admitadely, i got you mixed up with the original OP.

No worries, mate.

This week, the little brat will be forced to drink sulphuric acid, after which I will slice him in two with a bread knife - if he's lucky!



Sorry guys, it is Friday, and we need to lighten up a bit - or at least I do!

I am off to the twins' Halloween celebrations at the kindergarten, after which it is straight back home for some more fatal beatings

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

I am off to the twins' Halloween celebrations at the kindergarten, after which it is straight back home for some more fatal beatings

Beat em good before the party. Real blood is scary stuff on Halloween.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

I am off to the twins' Halloween celebrations at the kindergarten, after which it is straight back home for some more fatal beatings

Beat em good before the party. Real blood is scary stuff on Halloween.

easy to cover too...

WS -

Some of the others have commented on their Thai wives having very different ideas about childrearing. Did you need to train your missus or was she on the ball from the start?

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

And does any of you honestly think you can teach compassion and insight by using violence or threats of violence?

i'm nothing if not compassionate and I also had a very abusive step father too..I think honestly it has made me more compassionate about other peoples circumstances and peoples feelings...you can't understand those feelings if you haven't experienced the loss of them yourself....kinda like the grass is greenier on the other side, taking what you have for granted..

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

WS -

Some of the others have commented on their Thai wives having very different ideas about child rearing. Did you need to train your missus or was she on the ball from the start?

Actually she came around eventually - the boys were (and to some extent still are) behaving like angels around me, and got up to all kind of mischief when she was alone with them - smacking and screaming at them apparently didn't help much in the long run - she only admitted to the smacking long after she had stopped it, knowing damn well my feelings on it.

She has now been watching episodes of "Supernanny" with Jo Frost, an English nanny who in my opinion is an absolute ace when it comes to kids. I also bought one of Jo Frost's book that we have both read with much interest.

For those of you not familiar with Jo Frost, she has featured in a reality television series where she goes to homes (in the US) with unruly kids and basically whips them into shape in no time (a week, I think is the norm). Interestingly enough - the source of the children's bad behaviour quite often (always?) lies with one or both of the parents, rather than the kid(s). Strongly recommended!

She's not too bad looking either....

Supernanny's Jo Frost for Child Care and Parenting advice | B4UGoGaGa

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

And does any of you honestly think you can teach compassion and insight by using violence or threats of violence?

i'm nothing if not compassionate and I also had a very abusive step father too..I think honestly it has made me more compassionate about other peoples circumstances and peoples feelings...you can't understand those feelings if you haven't experienced the loss of them yourself....kinda like the grass is greenier on the other side, taking what you have for granted..

I am sure you are the exception rather than the rule - otherwise we would all have to be abusive in order to teach kids compassion. I am pretty sure there are better ways.....

I don't think anyone in their right mind would advocate beating a kid so he grows up to have more compassion for the beaten. I think the pattern, if I might use myself as an example, is to create an individual more prone to violence and violent overreaction to threat when young, who with luck and a little guidance matures into someone who usually has a handle on it. I say "usually" because the one thing sure to cause me to become unreasonable, to the point of going berserk, is to see a child abused. I know I'm not alone in this.

What they say about prisoners is true from all accounts I've heard- if a guy gets locked up for abusing children and the other inmates find out he's going to be shit out of luck. The reason for this is pretty obvious- most guys inside have a history of being abused as kids.

Well I guess we have 2 different ways of rearing our kids....one thing is for sure, I know mine and by the sounds of it yours, will grow up caring and respecting their parents because we care and respect them and tell them all the time.

The arguement of 'well I turned out alright' is not something to ignore...it is living experimentation. it takes a lot of years to pass to find out if a smack has effected those children (us). Same experiment can be used to see if the further abused kids, punched, beaten etc and even sexually abused kids turn out ok and if they then do the same to their kids or would never consider it. Some do, some do not....personal makeup then comes into play and each individual is different of course.

WS's oldest kids are 3 i think, my son is 6, nearly 7. I never had to smack him either until he was around 4 or 5yo. Still at this age you can count the number of times I have smacked him on 2 hands. The 3 yo girl is different, she has learnt and picked up bad habits from him, she has had a few already. But she already smacks me back.....little shit

And I will always say that when all the other efforts of sitting in their room, no cartoons, no whatever etc have not worked and the same thing repeatedly happens, then it is time for a smack and hope that the action of this, whatever it does to them, stings a little, embarrasses or such them, that they will use this to remember it next time and I have found it works after all other avenues exhausted.

As for me not remembering why we got the strap as youngsters....I can assure I do not remember the wrongdoing, but I do remember not to be naughty again. Hard to remember any real childhood wrongdoings with particular circumstances....maybe it was the time we built a penny bunger powered marble launcher out of pipe and wood and fired it through Dads garage walls repeatedly. So many things, to many to link to a certain flogging.