Thread: Two Tourists Brutally Murdered on Koh Tao, One Raped: Police Spark Thailand Manhunt

Perhaps English isn't his first lingo?

Hearing your daughter has been gang raped and then had her face cleaved into several pieces is not in my book an unfortunate incident.

Stubbing my toe and then falling into my bath, breaking my nose, would be a fucking unfortunate incident.

The slaughtering of a human being is a little more than that.

McAnna photographed two guys who were putting the arm on him. One was a cop apparently. Both have been eliminated from enquiries but were both DNA'd?

ye they knew each other as it was a penal colony, and if you take the time to read up on the place there has been lots of troubles there for tourists

Originally Posted by terry57

Originally Posted by pseudolus

The Tourism and Sports Ministry, meanwhile, called on the Royal Thai Police to set up stations in tourist hotspots, including Koh Tao.

- See more at: PHUKET: PM blows top over Koh Tao queries

Koh Tao first started receiving Tourists in 1986-7. Today its 2014.

So in its 28 year History of receiving Farang Tourists this is is the first instance of Farang being Murdered.

Not a bad run I'd suggest.

I mean one needs to keep this in perspective.

Be the safest place in the world to be at the moment considering all the pigs running around.

Further more, in the early 80's on Tao every person new each other, it was small tight knit community but as the Dive Industry grew the outsiders moved in and petty crime became common.

Same old story.

Can someone tell me were terry said this was an "unfortunate incident"? He said (IIRC) that, "unfortunately humans are fucked up"

Personally, I can't disagree with that.

Originally Posted by Bogon

Shit does happen everywhere, but when the screw is turned by international pressure, then a result is normally achieved.

It's not often a double-murder is not solved.

If it was 20 years ago the pigs would of stitched up a Burmese worker with the murders, easy as that.

D.N.A has the Pigs fuked, they can not do that.

The Killers have gone Bye Bye.

Pretty easy to mess around with DNA i'm sure, send to Chaing mai to favoured specialist or singapore.

Fuk me Eh,

Some of the posters on this forum are retarded in the most severe form.

So an unfortunate incident to me means fuking horrible to you. ???

Same same Innit.

Dumb Fukers.

^ Certainly unfortunate for Thailand to shown as such a bumbling nation
Just speculating; First reports had it no sign of rape so just maybe police assumption seminal DNA must match the killer(s) is a mistake. Or maybe it's just a mistake on its own, but seems they are really pinning too much on it.


Of course theories working on what is in the press is always going to be speculative, especially with contrary reports flying about.

I agree the killer has left long ago.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Can someone tell me were terry said this was an "unfortunate incident"? He said (IIRC) that, "unfortunately humans are fucked up"

Personally, I can't disagree with that.

Let's try again.

Post 644.

Yep, that's what the MAN said.

Grief!

Originally Posted by terry57

The Killers have gone Bye Bye.

Probably within hours after the incidents.
There seems to be a subliminal running theme that the guilty might be around still.

I believe the law enforcement authorities need to change their strategy of investigation as if the perpetrators had fled...

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Can someone tell me were terry said this was an "unfortunate incident"? He said (IIRC) that, "unfortunately humans are fucked up"

Personally, I can't disagree with that.

Let's try again.

Post 644.

Yep, that's what the MAN said.

Grief!

Correction noted. You are indeed correct.

This link will explain a lot as to why the police are struggleing to bring the murder(s) to task. The Dark Side of Thailand’s Island Paradise | MikeE's Travels – The Adventures of Just Another Kiwi on his OE

I think Thailand is the safest country in the world. The locals really do love foreigners and do their utmost to protect visitors- not because of financial interests but because its the right thing to do.

If the authorities search extensively, they will eventually find a couple of Burmese to pin this despicable act on.

Thai people are incapable of violence; they are too busy smiling.

Pass the Kool Aide please

^ Not the safest by a long shot but for tourists still very safe in general. Would feel safer anywhere in LOS than somewhere like Miami for example.

good read pragmatic though he contradicts himself saying its safe from violent crime and then provides loads of instances of violent crime

HE DARK SIDE OF THAILAND’S ISLAND PARADISE
SEPTEMBER 25, 2014 MICHAEL EARLEY 31 COMMENTS
The recent murders in Koh Tao of two young backpackers have attracted a lot of unwanted attention to the dark side of Thailand, including “mafia” style families operating in the Gulf of Thailand on islands such as Koh Phangan, Koh Tao and Koh Samui.

Having lived on both Tao and Phangan, I’ve got some insights (but can’t claim to know everything) about how things operate – which should give more of a picture to what is currently going on than what foreign journalists are portraying. As with anything in Thailand, things are much, much more complex than they appear at first.

A Bit of Koh Tao History

For most of it’s history Koh Tao looked nothing like it did today. It was likely a stopping off point for Malay fishermen for centuries, due largely to its isolated position in the Gulf of Thailand. In the 1800s, there would have been a couple of small villages, while later on in the 1890’s King Chulalongkorn visited the island – which is marked with a monument on Sairee beach. The island remained a quiet place for decades, with a few fishing families and farmers and not much else.

After the Siamese Revolution of 1932, the country moved from being an absolute monarchy to a constitutional democracy (of sorts). Koh Tao was used as a political prison in a similar way to Koh Tarutao in the South. In 1947, the prisoner inhabitants were given a Royal pardon and shipped off out of exile to the neighboring islands of Koh Phangan and Koh Samui. The island was once again abandoned.

The legend then goes that two brothers from Koh Phangan sailed to Koh Tao and settled on the land that is now considered Sairee beach. They farmed and fished and lead a fairly simple lifestyle occasionally trading with those on Koh Phangan.

The Vietnam war came about, which created a tourism boom in Thailand during the 1960s and 1970s for American GIs on R&R. Early backpackers began to explore the Islands in the gulf of Thailand, with dive trips originating from Koh Samui and Koh Phangan. The first full moon party being held on Phangan in the late 1980s. Gradually tourism began to increase on the Islands, and the island began to become more and more developed. First with a few simple shops and dive huts, then resorts, and later bars and other non diving related business. Larger ferry companies such as Lomprayah, Seatran and Songserm began to serve the island with overnight buses originating from Bangkok to fill the many spots on a growing dive industry. The island developed its two main areas of Sairee beach (which is now full of nightclubs, resorts and dive shops) and the sleepier “local” side of Chalok Ban Kao as well as the busy port of Mae Haad.

Power Structures on the Island

As with virtually any other town, village or island there is a patronage style system that those in the west would consider “mafia like”. However due to Koh Tao’s isolation and history this becomes more complex. (Technically these go all the way from the lowliest street vendor, through mafia and local government, all the way up to the military and eventually Royalty -

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the “five families” that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families are the descendents of the original settler families that arrived on the island between the 1940s and 1980s, prior to the advent of dive tourism. Although they do not own land (all land on the island is technically owned by the King via the Department of Marine and Coastal Resources) they do have a form of squatters rights that allows them to extract rent and develop businesses on their patch. A very small land rent is then payable to the crown for every “rai” (a Thai measurement of land) that they possess.

These families control or have an interest in virtually every business on the island in some way, shape or form. This can either be in the form of direct ownership, partnership, as a landlord or major supplier. No business on the island, whether Thai or Farang exists without some form of interaction of patronage or involvement from these key families.

The families areas are fairly clearly demarcated around property boundaries. What might be appropriate behavior in one area of the beach, would not be acceptable behavior in another. A long termer may have “protection” in one bar, but would never contemplate entering another due to relationships (business, friendship or otherwise) with someone connected to another.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar. There are many stories on the islands of what happens when one family perceives another family to have wronged them in one way or another and it generally involves petty rivalries over cash.

The other power source on the island is the Royal Thai Police who operate out of a building behind the school and temple on the Mae Haad end of Sairee beach. To describe them as law enforcement is generous, as they are merely another form of mafia style organisation on the island (a 6th family if you will). Their police work generally consists of driving around the island on their scooters, collecting their weekly extortion money from local businesses before spending it on booze and other entertainment. It’s worth noting that police purchase their postings in Thailand, it costs money to be the top police officer in a Tourist area, because to Thais – being the local sheriff in town is a business opportunity. Ask locals what the going rate is to be head of police in Phuket, Samui, Pattaya or any other area with a large potential revenue stream of bribes from strung up tourists.

“If there really is a mafia, locals and police detectives would have informed me already,” Pol.Gen. Somyot.

Transparency International’s Global Corruption Barometer 2007, a survey assessing the public’s perceptions and experience of corruption in 60 countries, states that, for Thailand, the police received a rating of four out of five, where one represents “not at all corrupt” and five represents “extremely corrupt”

- Wikipedia

Drugs on the Island

Drugs are prevalent on Koh Tao and easier to get. As with everything on the island there is a police of family involvement. In my time there, I saw people on a wide variety of substances, including cannabis, LSD, Ya Ba ( literally “crazy drug” in Thai, a mixture of methamphetamine and caffeine) and surprisingly cocaine. Cocaine was being consumed by many of the Thai Bar owners on Sairee beach while I was there during low season, and resulted in unpredictable behaviour – extreme highs, and extreme lows, which could potentially turn dangerous at a moments notice.

Long term locals all know the situation with drugs on the island, either consuming or turning a blind eye. When the police start to run low on cash, checkpoints will be set up on the road to Ao Leuk and the entrance to North Sairee village. This is where fresh foreigners will be caught with small amounts of cannabis, or urine tests will sometimes be taken for substances. The police intention is not to catch and charge foreigners for drug possession, but to use the threat of criminal sanction as leverage in order to extort cash off them.

When the amount is too large to cover up, criminal charges may be laid, but generally the person charged will get out on bail and a local lawyer will arrange a generous fine in order to get the person off the charges. Everyone involved takes their cut. In my time on the island I’ve personally witnessed a Thai businessman threatening to plant drugs under the seat of the motorbike due to a perceived insult from a farang, before calling the police.

Motorbike Rental Extortion

The biggest scam on the island (as with the other islands in the Gulf) involves the rental of motorbikes to tourists. All of the motorbike rental companies require a passport as collateral and use a standard rental agreement that is common on Koh Tao, Koh Phangan and Koh Samui. Requiring a passport for collateral is illegal in Thailand, and for many nationals it is also illegal for them to provide. That said most tourists still do this, naive to how everything works.

Bikes that are returned with any damage, no matter how small result in massive costs for the renter. A scratched piece of plastic that costs no more than 300 baht, will be charged anywhere from 3,000-10,000 baht. Excessive consumption of booze, poor quality roads, crazy taxi drivers and lack of lighting at night result in more than a fair share of motorbike accidents. Tourists are often eager to leave after a crash, and don’t want to miss their ferry – leaving all of the power with the rental company to extort whatever they like for a damaged bike. Those who argue with a rental company risk physical violence, and there have been multiple reports of on tripadvisor of firearms being pulled on those who argue with the rental company.

Koh Tao continues to rent out dangerous four wheel ATVs to inexperienced riders, a practise that has been banned on the other gulf islands due to the sheer number of accidents. None of these bikes are insured (even those that advertise insurance) and riders who do not carry an international drivers licence, with a motorbike endorsement along with specific cover for motorbike riding are not covered.

As with any other islands, police involvement may result in a slight decrease in the compensation for any motorbike accident, but the police officer will need to take his cut.

Violent Crime on the Island

Generally speaking the island is very safe. Part of the reason for this, is ironically enough that local strongmen and families keep the peace. There is only one main way in and out of the Island, and if you put a foot wrong you will be made to leave. By the same token, there is little theft because of the small size and difficulty of removing valuable items. There have however been a few incidents that I know of in the recent history of the island.

A bar owner was shot dead in a bar on Sairee beach, in public on a busy night in front of multiple witnesses over a business dispute. The bar has since been renamed and is under new (unrelated) management. No one was ever arrested for the shooting, and the alleged shooter operates a bar on the other side of the island.
Around 2002, one of the most powerful business people on the island, and brother of the operator of a major dive (Ban’s Diving – the biggest dive school in the world) school is shot dead in the middle of Sairee after a dispute with families. This is allegedly in or around the same shop that Scot, Sean McAnna was in when hiding from the two Thai men over the weekend. Again, no one was ever arrested for the shooting, though many locals claim to know who did it. Apparently the body was still in a freezer waiting to be cremated 6 years later. The story was covered by the Bangkok Post, but is no longer available online.
TAO chief killed by masked man

Shot in daylight, talking to friends

A local administrative organisation chief and business tycoon was shot dead by a masked gunman on Tao island early yesterday morning.

Virat Asavachin, 42, chairman of Tambon Koh Tao Administrative Association, was shot while talking with three friends near Ree beach.

A lone gunman, his face covered with a woollen mask, walked up to the group and fired six shots at Mr Virat, police said.

One of the bullets entered his left ear.

The gunman then walked calmly away towards the main road, witnesses told police.

The dead man’s wife, Ramluek, 29, and tambon organisation officials were questioned yesterday as police investigators looked for a motive.

The investigators suspected the attack arose from either a business conflict or a dispute over work in the tambon.

The victim owned Ban’s Diving, a 100-million-baht diving business and the largest dive shop on the resort island.

He recently began a ferry boat business serving the Chumphon-Koh Tao route.

A taxi driver stabbed another taxi driver in Mae Haad after he “stole” a customer from him in broad daylight. No one was ever arrested. Taxis are also operated by two mafia families – there are no motorcycle taxis allowed and the lack of competition results in extortionately expensive taxi fares.
There are also numerous stories of bars being burned down by jealous brothers, or even landlords. Parties have been shut down at gunpoint by jealous competitors with an empty bar. Business owners have been made to leave the island at gunpoint by the close of business.
There are many stories of Thai on Thai crime, generally involving shootings over men who have fooled around with others wives. This tends to happen away from the resort areas.
The attempted rape and throat slashing of a foreign bar managers wife, which went unreported.
In the Context of the Recent Murders

Over the last few days a very complex and ever changing story has emerged from the Island.

A pair of British tourist’s were brutally murdered on the beach front in front of a bar owned by a local Poo Yai (big man on the island) using tools that belong to either a Thai business or migrant labourers.
Local police were quoted as saying that a Thai could never do something like this (even though there are thousands of Thais in jail for doing similar things to each other), and proceeded to attempt to pin the blame on everyone from the victims best friends, migrant burmese labourers and more.
Police officers start posting images of the victims on their personal Facebook accounts, people who are IDed as potential suspects later on are photographed walking all over and contaminating the crime scene.
The media leaks sensitive information, and starts to paint a picture blaming the friend of the victim, claiming he is his gay lover and completely defaming him. Police apparently plant bloodied shorts in his bag.
The Prime Minister then stepped in, proceeding to blame the victim of the murder for being pretty and wearing a bikini, even though the murder was at night and photos of video the victim show her fully clothed prior to the incident.
A long termer on the island (Scott McAnna) who is also a friend of the male victim accuses local family members of being involved with the murder (he does not directly accuse them of it) and threatening to hang him, and use him as a scapegoat. He posts this on social media, and attempts to get it far and wide, with posts along the lines of if he is found dead tonight, these are the guys who did it.The Thais involved openly admit they “had words” with Sean, confirming that he was at least threatened, but because they are “Poo Yai” and mates with the cops, they are allowed to walk – without taking a DNA test.
The police continue their ludicrous investigation including reenacting the scene in the middle of the night, measuring the footprints of Burmese women and taking urine tests from Burmese males.
Various things would have happened behind the scenes, and eventually those fingered by the foreigner are brought into the police station for an interview, and refuse DNA tests.
Relatives of those accused by Sean of threatening to kill him do a runner up to Bangkok. Thai media name them as suspects while local police claim they are not, and merely at University. This is after the island was supposed to have been sealed off.
Posts pop up on various facebook groups urging foreigners not to comment to the media, or speak to any outsiders until approval is given by key people on the island. Comments are deleted or self censored. There is an appearance of a wall of silence, either for personal safety, or to protect business interests.
Various sock puppet accounts appear on online message boards such as Thaivisa.com attempting to derail commentary on the incident and the character assassination of the only witness begins.
It turns out that the witness has a very shady past of his own back in Europe, this is reported in Scottish newspapers.
Family are cleared due to DNA tests that are processed in record time (bare in mind that it takes 3 hours to get off Koh Tao by boat, and up to 9 hours to drive to Bangkok – where the main forensic labs would be, otherwise its a 3 hour boat ride to Koh Samui, then a 1 hour plane to Bangkok. This is before even factoring in the time it would take to actually process the tests). DNA Tests in a first world country generally take anywhere from 24-48 hours, and thats not even taking into account the chain of custody of samples each way.
Family head man offers 1 million baht (about $40,000 NZD) to the police if a member of his family is guilty. This screams either blood money, that he knows who did it, or that its a thinly veiled threat against any local who might name a family member.
Police stop considering Head man’s son as a suspect as he has a dubious “alibi” in Bangkok, yet no DNA tests are taken. It is unclear whether there is a second son on the run, due to the poor quality of Thai and Foriegn of media reporting.
Screen Shot 2014-09-24 at 12.14.29 pm

At this stage its not clear exactly what happened, though generally speaking, when there is smoke – there is fire. I have no idea what happened on that night, as I’m on the other side of the world. Based on past experiences on the island – I do have strong suspicions that the local families and police have actively tried to derail the investigation, attempted to cover it up and that had social media not attracted international attention on the case, that a Burmese scapegoat would have been found. The police almost admit this in a newspaper article:

“Please have confidence in our work, there will be no scapegoats”

“The case is being watched closely, watched worldwide and we are working hard to make this case as airtight as possible”

Lt Gen Panya

I personally believe Sean McAnna when he says he was threatened by the local Thais. I’ve read various claims on Thaivisa.com that the threats were too direct and in colliqual english that would not be used by a Thai. Koh Tao is not like other areas in Thailand – the locals have the best command of English out of anywhere I’ve been. His chequered past would have made him an easy patsy, but then again so would many long term residents on the Island whom the local police are probably keeping tabs on. The police were building a story about guitar players, about foreigners and that Thai’s couldn’t possibly be involved.

I think had Sean not made his outburst that he probably would have ended up either dead, or blamed for the whole situation. I have absolutely zero faith in the Thai justice system or any island police officers ability to do their job.

I’m saddened by the wall of silence from the Koh Tao expat community, but I can also understand why. Many have had brushes with the law in the past, mostly to do with drug use – and the police always hold this as ammunition for use in the future. Many others have business interests but incorrect Visas or nominee shareholdings in their business or property ownership. They could lose their entire investments and lifestyle that they have become accustomed to simply for speaking out. Some could get deported for overstay, fined for employing illegal immigrants or arrested for working without a work permit.

Something about the whole story still doesn’t make sense though. I simply cannot understand why someone from one of these powerful families would actually get involved in this mess and do something so brutal. Somewhere these facts don’t add up. Thai males are known to get violent at a moments notice – but this is when “face” comes into play. They don’t (especially well connected business owners, even ones descended from squatters) just rape and murder two tourists when their entire industry depends on them.

I very much doubt that the person (or people) who did this will actually be punished. I think someone will be arrested, and will have a confession beaten out of them by Thai police. Due to the international attention, local cops cannot risk the loss of face by not “solving” this tragic crime. It is unlikely however that justice will be done.

There will likely be a short term drop in tourist numbers to the rock, but backpackers generally don’t pay attention to these sort of things, many tend to think they are invincible or will never happen to them, and by next season – things will be back to “normal”.

As with anywhere in Thailand, tourists should use caution while having fun, and always be careful around Thai males when drugs, alcohol and women are involved. What happened was a very rare occurrence, but its not unprecedented on the islands, where suspicious deaths are often reported as being by “natural causes” or “suicide”.

Originally Posted by Fozzy

^ Not the safest by a long shot but for tourists still very safe in general. Would feel safer anywhere in LOS than somewhere like Miami for example.

Well, if you were to factor in local killings, rape etc then Thailand and the U.S. would be comparable.
However, if you were to compare Thailand with Malaysia which receives the same number of foreign tourists and is an immediate neighbour then Thailand is certainly a much more dangerous destination where rape, murder, robberies, scams and fraud are more likely.

^ Was deliberately not including local murders and rapes as they can make figures very misleading when discussing the safety of tourists. Have no idea about Malaysia, take your word for it.

I think most tourist are mislead on safety with the saying "Land of Smile". This indicates a country of 'happy go lucky' natives that would do you no harm. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I think most tourist are mislead on safety with the saying "Land of Smile". This indicates a country of 'happy go lucky' natives that would do you no harm. Just my opinion.

Don't agree mate. LOS is just a silly advertising type slogan and nobody would ever allow that to affect their decision as to how safe the country is IMO. If they did then quite frankly they shouldn't be leaving the safety of their own front garden.

At the end of the day Thailand is a developing country in SE Asia, if that doesn't throw up enough warning signals that caution needs to be taken then nothing will.

The sad truth is that a huge percentage of the tourist deaths and murders in LOS, could have been avoided with just a bit of common sense. Young girls walking alone and drunk on remote beaches for example.

Another illuminating statement from the BIB. Everybody relax, we are almost there....

Koh Tao murder probe 85% complete: Panya
The Nation

KOH TAO: -- The police investigation into the murder of two British backpackers on Koh Tao, off the coast of Surat Thani, is 85 per cent complete, a police commander said yesterday.

Everybody who was in a 600-metre radius of the murder scene between 2am and 4am on September 15 is a suspect, said Pol Lt-General Panya Mamen, chief of the Police Region 8 command. The resort island comes under his jurisdiction.

He said the remaining 15 per cent of the case was classified, and "when overall progress can be revealed, arrests can be made".

Panya said the police probe was not complicated, adding that luck was on their side as leads and tip-offs about the killers were coming in continuously.

"This helps police to do their work more efficiently," he said.

The officer spoke to reporters after landing on the island in a helicopter. A police command post has been set up there, where investigators provide a daily briefing and updates on the case at the orders of deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung.

A police source said another witness was being interviewed, and that police were conducting a parallel probe to double-check on this person's accounts.

Meanwhile, Tourism and Sports Minister Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul is to visit Koh Tao today to oversee the boosting of safety measures.

Separately, Koh Pha-ngan district chief Thaweesak Inphrome said he would work on suppressing vice in the area as ordered by Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha. Thaweesak's governing authority covers Koh Tao.

The district chief also vowed that no murders would take place during high season in December, when visitors flock to Koh Tao, Koh Samui and Koh Pha-ngan for Full Moon Parties and the New Year countdown, thanks to heightened security and the suppression of vice.


I found this last paragraph especially inspiring.....

Article in time magazine says the chief village relatives refused a dna test and the cops didn't boyher and released them. They clearly did it.

^

A Journalist wrote that article for money, Don't believe that at all.

For sure they would of been made to supply a DNA test.

Those few Powerful families are not more Powerful than the Police investigating.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Article in time magazine says the chief village relatives refused a dna test and the cops didn't boyher and released them. They clearly did it.

I read the Time article. I didn't see that DNA reference anywhere in it.

Originally Posted by terry57

A Journalist wrote that article for money, Don't believe that at all.

For sure they would of been made to supply a DNA test.
Those few Powerful families are not more Powerful than the Police investigating.

lol.

How long have you been here again?

Do you generally follow the news?

To discount the idea that powerful families dictate what the police do in these circumstances takes a colossal amount of ignorance.

Maybe you distrust the news so much that you never read, listen to or watch it?